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The Voice

Yes, on X the screeching leftists are still out calling the No vote racists and RWNJs. All The usual suspects of course Philip Adams, Mike Carlton et al., all of whom should have been sectioned a long time ago.

They just cannot come to terms with the fact that they were wrong and were out argued based on facts and common sense. All rather tiresome.

Of particular note to me is that there could be a Voice informally, which the government might want to consider if they were sincere. Yet what has happened is that indigenous people have been absolutely ignored and scorned by this Labor government.

Your action speak so loudly that I can't hear what you say, Mr Albanese.
 
"I am not bringing up these issues again to relitigate the issues of the referendum. Instead, I want to ask a very important question: the Voice to Parliament was designed to address our systemic disadvantage, so what solutions to these serious structural issues have any of the No campaigners offered in the past 12 months?"

We have seen some policies from the Coalition. Plans to reduce “fly in, fly out” workers in remote communities. Reforming land rights and native title. A royal commission into child sexual abuse in Indigenous communities. Less need for programs with “a specific Indigenous focus” in urban areas, where most First Nations people live.

Some of these are just a rehash of failed Coalition policies of the past, as many others have mentioned. Some appear to have come personally from Senator Jacinta Price and are seemingly not backed by experts (or many people in Indigenous communities). Others appear to be tied directly into conservative political talking points, rather than really addressing Indigenous need.

The Coalition also abandoned its plan for an alternative second referendum almost immediately after the failed vote.

The Coalition and other leading No campaigners clearly have no plans to address the structural issues facing our peoples. They’re only offering more of the regular policy tinkering and seesawing we have seen far too often before.


"Charting a way forward​

Research following the referendum shows that 87% of Australians think First Nations peoples should be able to decide for ourselves about our way of life. Moreover, 64% think the disadvantages faced by our communities warrant extra government attention, and 68% believe this disadvantage comes from “past race-based policies”.

Only 35% believe Indigenous peoples are now treated equally to other Australians, and only 37% believe injustices faced by our community are “all in the past”.



The Albanese government’s policy focus has been on economic empowerment, not structural reform. Mick Tsikas/AAP

This clearly shows a level of recognition by the Australian people that something needs to be done about Indigenous policy and the structural issues in this country.

According to the same data, 87% of Australians agree it is “important for First Nations peoples to have a voice/say in matters that affect them”. This jumps to 98.5% among Yes voters, but also is true of 76% of No voters.

This suggests that Australian people see the problem and can identify the structural issues."



 
The sheer hypocrisy of Price is stunning.

It's ok to have an opinion and to dislike another person's opinion, but it is not fair or wise to attack an opinion without first conducting some research.

Jacinta Nampijinpa Price
Price's activism and views focus primarily on issues faced by Aboriginal communities, and she is a vocal advocate for conservative Aboriginal politics in Australia. She has highlighted the high rates of domestic and other violence in Aboriginal communities, and advocates for a law and order approach. She is critical of welfare dependency and "opportunistic collectivism". She opposed the proposed Indigenous Voice to Parliament, and thinks that calls to change Australia Day and the Australian flag are counterproductive to Aboriginal advancement.​

Indigenous voice Yes campaign ‘obsessed’ with misinformation, failed to engage debate: lawyers
Prominent lawyers and staunch Indigenous voice advocates have condemned Megan Davis’s claims that a misinformation bill could have helped secure a Yes victory, with one leading supporter asserting that the Yes campaign became “obsessed” with critics’ misleading narratives while also spreading untruths themselves.​

 
There appears to be a reluctance to actually carry out a thorough audit of why the current money isn't getting down to the grass roots people.
If we take the official figures, that there are only about 1million Aboriginal and Torres Strait islanders, there is a lot of money going somewhere.

When we consider the amount of Government money directed to the plight of aboriginals and then add to that the amount of money that is given to the aboriginals through land access deals with the mining companies, the obvious first step would be to acertain why the money isn't getting through.

When there is a suggestion that an audit be carried out, an uproar ensues, IMO credibility is the issue that is causing the distrust.

Maybe no one believes the fundamental driver is to improve the situation for the grass roots people, there is always a veil of secrecy about how the money appears to go missing, somewhere between the recievers of the money and the obvious lack of services that the money is meant to deliver.

Maybe there should be more transparency, as to why the current model isn't working, before moving on to more autonomy and secrecy?
Constantly saying the gap is widening when more money is being thrown at it, is like our education system, where no one is being honest why the standards are falling even though more money is thrown at it.

The general public is becoming more questioning these days, that's what the Govt isn't getting.
Due to the internet, most only believe half of what is said, because they can cross check everything..
 
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Your 1 million people are mainly in cities and rural towns, around here they are about 6% of the population, so about double the national average.

Of those 5000 probably 80% are in mixed relationships, they live normal lives like all the rest of us.

They do receive some benefits because of their race, (medical bulk billing is the sore point) but apart from a very few, they lead normal, productive lives with jobs, study and sport just the same as the rest of the population.

So, in reality, the billions of $$$ being thrown at the Media Muckraking is really meant for those who live in poor circumstances and they would probably number no more than 250k people.

Most of those would be in remote areas or on the fringe of country towns.

How we can destroy billions on 250k and make no headway over 20 years definitely needs a very hard look under a very bright light.
 

Sigh... 10 years of Coalition Party government and only now they want an audit how is that?

Why isn't there a ongoing audit procedure that is the norm around public monies? (suspect that there is something likely along the lines of the productivity commission but lets not get bogged down in that)

Price is in a full on war with various land councils due to her continuous tirade of unsubstantiated insults to the organisations its that bad her own mob are now indispute along with family members that refuse to talk to her same as Price refuses to talk to the land councils in her own electoral seat.

In revenge Price wants to break common areas down to lesser language areas in an effort to damage the existing structures.

Price doesn't care as its whites who vote her in not Aboriginals.

Tom Carma on the 7.30 report gave avery sincere view of the issues around the Voice failure and the failure of stable policy and working structures between states and various changes of government state and federal.

A purpose of the Voice was to give continuation of policy and structure that worked regardless of changing governments.

Meanwhile the Gap Report is going in the wrong direction and the No Vote is still to put up if not the Voice then what?

Crickets
 

It shouldn't matter how long it has been called for, or which government was in charge in the past. What matters is what happens in the present.




 
The Voice was an attempt to hoodwink the Australian people, it failed. Now it is time to move forward for all Australians, all people born here, all citizens.

Yes campaign ‘obsessed’ with misinformation, failed to engage

Prominent lawyers condemn claims a misinformation bill could have helped secure a voice victory, with one supporter alleging the Yes side pushed untruths.

The legacy of the Indigenous voice: hope, division and paralysis

The voice represents a tragic saga for Aboriginal Australians. The wounds are still fresh – and there’s little sign of leadership to identify a way forward.

The deadly backlash of ‘sit-down money’

Let’s face it: 1973 and 1974, not 1788, better explains this long-scale traumatic hurt and human damage to Aboriginal Australia.


 
Warren Mundine reflects on the anniversary of the failure of the Voice to Parliament referendum. He shares his thoughts on the outcome, the impact it had on Indigenous Australians, and what he believes the future holds for reconciliation and closing the gap.

 

Megan Davis, Australians have spoken. Respect their verdict


The first-year anniversary of the voice referendum is upon us, and it would not hurt to begin this week’s column on a positive note. Accordingly, I would like to acknowledge and pay my respects to the framers of our constitution.
I pay tribute to their wisdom and foresight and thank them for their wonderful gift. I also acknowledge our constitution is the supreme instrument of sovereignty in this country. In addition, I extend my respects to the founding fathers’ descendants, past, present and emerging.
Our country is not only a longstanding democracy. It is also one of the most stable nations in the world. And it is no mere coincidence the constitution which ensured this is one that cannot be amended at whim.
If you propose to change it, you must bring the country with you. If you fail to do so, you have two choices. You can state for the record that Australians have spoken and that you respect their verdict. That is the sensible and dignified option, particularly if your case for change was so unconvincing you failed even to carry a single state.
Alternatively, you can screech incessantly and insist that sinister forces conspired to nobble your campaign. To do so, even spontaneously, is both unedifying and embarrassing. Imagine how much more ridiculous you would appear if you still persisted with this behaviour a year down the track.

 

The above blows away the No campaign high lighted the % for those that missed it.
 
The above blows away the No campaign high lighted the % for those that missed it.

60.1% of Australian's voted NO to changing the constitution.

Trust in the judiciary declined by the most out of six institutions from just after the May 2022 federal election (78.2 per cent) to just after the referendum (70.9 per cent).
The vast majority (79.1 per cent) of Australians feel proud of First Nations cultures, more than the 69.0 per cent that feel proud of British/European cultures.
Even after the referendum, 87.0 per cent of Australians think that ‘It is important for First Nations peoples to have a voice/say in matters that affect them.’ Around three- quarters of no voters (76.0 per cent) agree with the statement.
Compared to 2014, Australians are now more likely to think that Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples are treated equally to other Australians (34.9 per cent) and that recognising land rights and Native Title of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people is unfair to other Australians (45.0 per cent).
Amongst those who voted no, the factor that was most likely to be given as very important in influencing their decision was concern about dividing the country. This was given by 66.1 per cent of no voters.
 
The above blows away the No campaign high lighted the % for those that missed it.
At a personal level, I fully agree that Aboriginal people should have a say in matters affecting them.

What I take issue with is the double standards.

There's an awful lot of people, those who are in the regions where the "No" vote prevailed, who express similar sentiments on a whole range of issues. They want to control their own destiny or at least have a say. If there's to be centralised control then they want it coming from their state's capital city, definitely not from Canberra.

Frustration with overbearing control by the feds is a big part of what those on the "No" side are unhappy with in general, not limited to this issue. As they see it, if NSW wants to mine gold for example well that's nothing to do with the feds so keep out of it. The decision should be made locally by the relevant council or at most in Sydney by the state government. Same with any other issue, the gold mine's just a recent example of the overreach of the federal government into what ought not concern them.

The federal government overriding the states or otherwise getting involved in such issues isn't about protecting heritage or the environment. It's just about Labor governments buying Green votes in Sydney and Melbourne at the expense of the regions and smaller population states.

That ultimately is where the whole thing originates. It's why the working class have shifted toward the Coalition whilst the inner suburbs of the big cities prefer Labor, a trend readily apparent in recent federal election results and in the referendum itself. To the extent there's a divide in Australia, it's the inner city versus the rest and it's that repeated pandering to the inner city at the expense of the rest that's created it. Now the rest have had enough, and are rejecting any further push in that direction, aka the No vote.

There's nothing those in the regions want more than to have less control from the big cities and especially Canberra. They'd be more than happy to see Aboriginal people given the choice as to their own destiny so long as others get the same.
 
It seems to me that the Aboriginal people have been running or at least advising all the relative Canberra agencies for quite some time.

They have been very vocal and visible in the media for a decade, all those who consider themselves leaders have had a huge opportunity to bridge the gap.

As the No campaigners pointed out at the time, the faces of the Yes campaign have had ample opportunity to make a difference and have not done very well.

The money simply, does not get down to the local communities, people I spoke to about it think the Voice would have been just another layer of free loaders in Canberra
 

Yes there are many lobbyists in Canberra chasing money or pushing various wheelbarrows for Aboriginal causes and many are connected (Warren Mundine etc) and drive their own views and beliefs.

What there isn't is a consistent stream of advice across the board in a measured way that can give a voice from Aboriginals from the ground up that impacts policy and structures that benefits those in need and provides consistency across state / federal governments particularly when governments are changed.

An example of policy change that caused harm is Abbotts cuts to funding of health services for Aboriginals Mundine made a big point before the cuts how smoking was a big killer of Aboriginals, Abbott removed the funding to deal with this issue with Mundine trying to gloss over the fact later in support of Abbott.


"Without Aboriginal involvement, you will fail. It’s their story; it can’t just be imposed on them... If you don’t have a respectful relationship, any talk of consultation is a fiction. If you don’t have adequate time, any talk of consultation is a fiction. You are simply the latest missionary telling them what to do.[56]
- Fred Chaney, Chair of Desert Knowledge Australia, 20 May 2014."
 
At a personal level, I fully agree that Aboriginal people should have a say in matters affecting them.

What I take issue with is the double standards.

If there were populations that had similar outcomes such as the gap report, had been dispossessed of their lands, forcibly removed / massacred or even caught between cultures and heavily discriminated such as Aboriginals I would agree.

The Aboriginal problem or problems are unique in many ways most (not all but most) are of our (or our ancestors certainly mine as the were early) making and after 200 plus years its fair to say mostly we are still failing.
 

What do you mean "if", of course there has been similar outcomes. It has happened across the globe and from the beginning of time.

The migration of peoples and the domination and displacement of others is a universal phenomenon. Maybe peoples do sometime move and expand just because they fancy lording it over others – just because they are propelled by the libido dominandi, as St Augustine thought of the Romans.
But usually they move in search of the means of subsistence, to escape famine or poverty or persecution, to repopulate after decimation by disease, to pre-empt neighbours from attacking them.

This is how the human race evolved from substance living, to hunter gather, to farmer, to technological developer. Humans explored, they traded, they invaded they assimilated. And along the way we created a system that improved living conditions, created medical technology and life longevity, food harvest that is so abundant we throw too much away.

The problem that central Australian Aborignal peoples continue to have today is a cause of socialist ministers and elites.

The idea that Indigenous peoples should themselves collectively decide the terms on which they would engage with Western life and settler society first emerged in the 1950s, thanks in no small part to the Australian Communist Party. As of 1931, communists argued that indigenous minorities in the advanced capitalist countries were oppressed colonial peoples. The glorious Soviet Socialist republics were “self-determining”, they declared – so should be indigenous minorities.

The Socialist idea of land ownership and control has been forced onto the indigenous peoples of central Australia. The aboriginal elites that live in the cities preach about creating their own voice to parliament, which is code for their own government. This is divisive, this is not one Australia. And it offers no assurance that the current issues of violence, poverty and substance abuse will be overcome.

The aboriginal living of pre-immigration will never return. Not if money and the western ways continue in aboriginal society.

self-determination germinated under the Coalition, was supercharged under Gough Whitlam, and then became orthodoxy. Even to question it was to be tarred with hankering for the bad old days of assimilation. Yet self-determination produced failure on a vast, indeed cataclysmic scale.
Activist bureaucrats such as Herbert “Nugget” Coombs enthusiastically endorsed the idea that Indigenous communities in remote regions should be established largely outside modern capitalist Australia. After Whitlam’s 1972 election victory unemployment benefits were made available to all Indigenous people, even if they lived in communities where there were no jobs. It proved to be one of the most poisonous policy decisions of the 20th century.

What is the answer?

There is no simple answer, but there are examples that prove that education and purpose is universal. Jacinta Nampijinpa Price has an idea, one that the rest of Australia, inclding the elites, are able to use.

Jacinta Nampijinpa Price's activism and views focus primarily on issues faced by Aboriginal communities, and she is a vocal advocate for conservative Aboriginal politics in Australia. She has highlighted the high rates of domestic and other violence in Aboriginal communities. She is critical of welfare dependency and "opportunistic collectivism".

 
New Zealand government is starting to pull together their divided race-based system, making equality the answer.

Mr Seymour’s comments come amid ongoing debate in Australia about a potential Indigenous treaty, with former Greens senator Lidia Thorpe last week calling for a treaty during her protest in front of King Charles. The Uluru Statement from the Heart called for the Indigenous voice to be followed by a treaty, and many Indigenous leaders still want the government to pursue the next stage despite last year’s defeat of the voice referendum.
Mr Seymour said Australia’s rejection of the voice showed Australians intuitively understood the risks of ascribing rights based on race.
“As soon as you say people could have different political rights based on their ancestry, then you go to a very bad place. New Zealand’s been on that path for 50 years,” Mr Seymour said.

 
If there were populations that had similar outcomes such as the gap report, had been dispossessed of their lands, forcibly removed / massacred or even caught between cultures and heavily discriminated such as Aboriginals I would agree.
There's a fundamental difference between Aboriginal culture and the rest of society here.

Aboriginal culture = what happened in 1788 is still very relevant. They stole our land!

Western culture = 1988 is ancient history. Too long ago to worry about anything other than the most notable music and the odd random movie. Almost everything that happened just one generation ago is irrelevant today and most of it's long forgotten.

In Western society, wealth rarely survives more than two generations beyond its creator, so the idea that you'd inherit land that was in the family 236 years ago just isn't credible. Someone would've blown the family fortune by now almost always.

Therein lies part of the divide. From my Western cultural perspective, it's just not possible that a ~20 year old Aboriginal person had their land stolen. Simply because 20 year olds generally don't own land anyway, and if they want some then they'll have to buy it the same as anyone else (admittedly rather difficult for everyone these days, but that's a broader issue).

In saying that I'm not saying the Western approach is necessarily the right one, only that it's the source of an irreconcilable difference.

The house I lived in as a young child no longer exists, it was knocked down to make way for a commercial development.

The high school I went to also no longer exists, that too was demolished.

First proper job I had, guess what? Yep, they've since knocked down both the office building I was interviewed in and the workshop I worked in. All gone.

But in Western culture that's not particularly relevant. Because my parents were paid for the land that was sold to make way for the commercial development. Because I received an education at the school and wouldn't have ever gone back there anyway. Because the employer paid me to work there and gave me skills as well. And so on.

So there's a fundamental difference it seems between Aboriginal and Western culture with connection to land and physical places, the significance of time, and the notion of ownership.

Aboriginal = strong connection to land, very long history, etc.

Western = move frequently, just about everything's for sale at a price, only exceptional events or works retain relevance more than 20 years after they occurred, a general expectation that nothing lasts forever and most things don't last long at all.

There's a lot of fundamentally hard to reconcile differences there.
 
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