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The Pilgrims

i am a practicing catholic and could not imagine a less fulfilling life without god considering the amount I have achieved. I know that come the time of my death, my soul will rise to heaven and live in eternal happiness :)

Comments like the ones above do continue to test my belief, but i know never to succumb to them.

it never ceases to surprise me the number of non-believers that make it seem as though having a faith (and a soul once more) is stupidity ("we are brainwashed" :rolleyes:). To be quiet frank, without God (and a spirit) one is just lowering them self to the status of an animal (animals don't believe nor attend church).

And as far as worshiping the pope, well the first original pope I believe goes back to biblical times, so the tradition has carried over in history.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope


enough said for me - this is a controversial matter but go forth in peace :)

Your view that people lower themselves to the status of animals if they don't embrace the God/spirit thing is, in my view, silly in the extreme. And quite offensive to the many good, decent and worthwhile people out there who don't believe in God. You're right in saying that animals don't believe nor attend church. But a more balanced viewpoint would also point out that neither do animals make breakthrough discoveries in science, industry and technology, build hospitals to care for their sick, make breakthroughs in medicine and healthcare, etc etc etc.
Does it not occur to you that by having the ability and the willingness to do all these things, we humans put ourselves on a completely different level to other species of animals, regardless of whether we do or don't believe in God?



As for you 'knowing' that your soul will go to heaven, the fact is that you know nothing of the sort. Clearly you believe it very strongly, but belief does not make it fact.
Islamic terrorists also believe that they're headed for the same place you claim you're going to. It would be interesting indeed to know how you'll cope with them if you all find yourselves bundled together in the same place!
And if you (or your soul) do in fact end up where you think you will, then it stands to reason that the last few thousand years will have produced quite a few billion people just like you who have died and gone to heaven before you. And since life is supposedly eternal in heaven, these billions of people, or their souls, will still be there, crowding the place to breaking point. So how exactly do you think that you and several million more people who die at around the same time as you do, are going to comfortably fit into such an overcrowded place? Or live harmoniously with each other?
I'm not trying to have a go at you with these questions, and I don't expect you to answer them on a public forum. But if you're a responsible and intelligent person then you owe it to yourself to at least consider them.


If tradition is the only reason you can give for hero-worshipping the pope, then I'd suggest it's a very poor reason. The world is full of pointless traditions.
But anyway, you've confirmed my belief that the hero-worship lavished on the pope is simply a case of Catholics embracing the adoration routine because it's the done thing in their religion.
99.9% of the population, including most Catholics, had never heard of the pope prior to his appointment to the top job. To the best of my knowledge he wasn't a noteworthy man who had made magnificent contributions to his fellow humans and to the world in general. Yet as soon as he's appointed pope he becomes an instant hero to millions, a shining light who can do no wrong. It's just too silly for words.

Anyway, the discussion has strayed off track, as discussions tend to do. So to get back to commenting on the Catholic youth festival......I saw on TV last night that many of the young people in attendance are taking the opportunity to have a good old booze up, with a certain amount of associated drunken, silly behaviour, although nothing too serious at this stage.
The TV reporter asked several drunken groups "Is this the way his holiness would like you to behave at a Catholic youth festival"?
He received some silly, high-spirited and drunken replies that were mostly unintelligible.
Not that I'm condemning anyone having a bit of a booze up....done the same thing myself plenty of times. Just making the point that the squeaky clean behaviour exhibited by these young people at the start of the festival is not quite so squeaky clean any longer, at least for some of them.

Incidentally Agro.....thanks for posting your views. You must have known you'd cop some criticism but you went ahead anyway. I admire you for that.
 
i am a practicing catholic and could not imagine a less fulfilling life without god considering the amount I have achieved. I know that come the time of my death, my soul will rise to heaven and live in eternal happiness :)

Comments like the ones above do continue to test my belief, but i know never to succumb to them.

it never ceases to surprise me the number of non-believers that make it seem as though having a faith (and a soul once more) is stupidity ("we are brainwashed" :rolleyes:). To be quiet frank, without God (and a spirit) one is just lowering them self to the status of an animal (animals don't believe nor attend church).

enough said for me - this is a controversial matter but go forth in peace :)

After a visit to Costa Maya (on a Caribbean cruise) last year I pondered the fact that throughout history, no matter how primitive, humans have always believed in a god. Hence I later bought Richard Dawkins' book The God Delusion. Awesome book.

Historically of course, religious leaders did not 'go forth in peace' nor do many today (radical Muslims... evangelicals in the US)

Buddhists (a philosophy, not a religion) believe we choose our parents for this life in order to resolve the problem from our past life. Our goal is to solve this problem or when we are re-born in the next life we will again suffer until we resolve it. Enlightenment through meditation. According to a Buddhist uncle you could reincarnate as an animal if you are cruel to one. Thus fear based?

Whatever our beliefs, maybe the ultimate personal goal to feel genuine inner peace is not always achieved without free will, which 'Jesus/God gave us'. Obey and go to heaven or else burn in hell! Yet is dominance by a religion 'free will'? Personal values evolve with experience from many role model influences, including religious doctrines. Religions all seem to be fear based. You are the enemy and inferior if you succumb to free will outside of the religious group's beliefs. Does obeying give you inner peace or does the free will to make the 'right' decision give it?

Happiness is for today not when you die. This is the only time we really have.
Gratitude for what you have with your life now, is paramount.
Your conscience on your death bed will dictate a personal heaven or hell as a consequence.

Your choice. Doing the right thing by yourself and others by free will in this life is a personal belief.
... or you may rot in jail. ;)
 
Oh God!

I'm not surprised this thread came to the discussion of God.

'God', with a capital G, is a human invention.

Please, anyone who thinks there is 'God', do some research on thie history of the idea of 'God', with a capital G, and you will have a revelation.

Now, if you think 'God' is another name for the origin of the universe, or something superior, outside of the Cults of Abraham, I'm all ears.

Actually, that thread has been done. :cautious:
 
you can read all the theories you like but nothing can disprove god's existence
Seriously. Lol!

There are only 2 viable arguments for "God's" existence. Neither have anything to do with western religions.

If you have a look at the theories of light bending, it should start you off adequately when it comes to the omnipotence debate. :)

But my favourite quote:

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?
 
Whatever else you say - he's either lucky or he has some great contacts - in that the rain held off yesterday - until about 7.30pm lol.
Miracle ;)

in fact the weather was pretty good all week :eek:
 
I wasnt part of it myself, but the atmosphere in Sydney was vibrant! Like the olympics.

It doesnt matter to me if they were Catholic or Jewish or Muslim, etc, if their belief can bring their youth all together like that and create an atmosphere of peace and unity (and also some $$$) , then I say bring it on!

We should have more religious and spiritual leaders coming here for a big event. Not to talk differences, but to go for a beer and a game of golf or something. :D
 
I wasnt part of it myself, but the atmosphere in Sydney was vibrant! Like the olympics.
Due respect, but it wasn't like the Olympics. These were large numbers of large groups of happy kids. That was nice to see, but it wasn't like the Olympics.

I've been puzzling over this for a while, and I think the difference is that the Olympics is an event for both insiders and outsiders. The athletes are the insiders, and most of them are happy kids deeply committed to something larger themselves. The vastly larger group is the outsiders: locals from the host city, spectators, and people involved in peripheral events like the Olympics arts festivals. In the Sydney Olympics most of the changes and most of the atmosphere were for the outsiders. World Youth however-long-it-is was only about insiders. In that sense it was more like APEC than the Olympics, although these insiders were probably more interesting, as well as more fun, than those ones.

Ghoti
 
I see your point Ghoti, I was only looking at it from a surface level though. ...flags everywhere, happy faces, camera's flashing, musical instruments, tourists getting lost, etc.
It definitely made the walks to and from work more colourful
 
Originally Posted by Chops a Must Yeah, everything looks pearly white on here.

By the way:

Might be my warped sense of humour chops but that photo is a cracker. I reckon 'Luke' must be one of 'The Chasers'. Would love to have seen how long he remained on the back of group before the Anti Annoyance Enforcers removed him/her?
 
I reckon the pope (or Pope if you prefer) has left a lasting impression on Sydney.

I took a photo of the Opera House a couple of nights ago - and no-one was around, and then when I developed it, I get this wing-ed image in the foreground :confused:

PS next weekend is City2surf folks.
 

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