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The official "ASX is tanking!" panic thread

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This could turn the markets around...57 Billion Euros a year taken from the people who can most afford it.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-...nancial-transaction-tax-to-start-in-2014.html

Bloomberg said:
The European Union proposed a financial-transactions tax that would take effect in 2014 and raise about 57 billion euros ($78 billion) a year.
The plan would set minimum tax rates for financial transactions throughout the 27-nation EU, the European Commission, the EU’s Brussels-based executive, said today in a statement. It would assess trading of stocks and bonds at a 0.1 percent rate, with a 0.01 percent rate for derivatives contracts.
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FTSE and DAX both up a little. :)

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Some people posting in this thread really need to get a grip and harden up a little.
 
skc said:
The liquidity will dry up faster than <insert your own fast-drying experience>...

If they implement that on the EU and not UK, everyone will just move their business to London.
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The whole North Atlantic should implement this..as it was really a North Atlantic problem in the first place, i like the fix as it targets the idiots that started all this, and penalises the high frequency trading institutions the most..prob should charge a 5% tax on shorting. :)
 
skc said:
The liquidity will dry up faster than <insert your own fast-drying experience>...

If they implement that on the EU and not UK, everyone will just move their business to London.
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0.01% on derivatives? That means everyone will trade derivatives and no-one will touch stocks...

Spread betting would rake in more money as it is still 'gambling'
 
Chasero said:
Selling CBA today if it reaches around $46.20. (break even)

Now my portfolio mainly cosists of CSL, WOW, TLS and some gold stocks.

Slowly offloading all the 'risky' shares.

My heart can't handle the dives. Sorry I'm out! :)
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233358-pokies.jpg

Who wants to make a bet (I mean make an investment) that Chasero changes his mind.
 
So_Cynical said:
The whole North Atlantic should implement this..as it was really a North Atlantic problem in the first place, i like the fix as it targets the idiots that started all this, and penalises the high frequency trading institutions the most..prob should charge a 5% tax on shorting. :)
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Why the crusade on shorting? They banned shorting already on the European banks... did that help?

A frequent argument is that shorting creates "additional" supply when there isn't really any shares to sell. Well, buying creates way more "additional" demand! Buying moves/distorts the market the same way shorting does. Shorting is no different to buying. I bet you more people lost money on pump and dump (distortion from buying) then evil shorter attacks.

Shorting on its own doesn't create problems for the operation of a company. The poor operation of a company attracts shorting. Anyone who thinks shorters are evil speculators is using reverse causation.

If you want to ban speculators then ban the long speculators as well. Get people to fill in a form when they want to buy shares and write in fewer than 200 words why they want to acquire such company, then run say monthly auctions like our daily opening auctions to execute the transactions.

That will drive the speculators out.
 
skyQuake said:
0.01% on derivatives? That means everyone will trade derivatives and no-one will touch stocks...

Spread betting would rake in more money as it is still 'gambling'
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I would spread bet as well if I were in the UK. Paying the spread vs no tax... that is very lucrative.
 
skc said:
Buying moves/distorts the market the same way shorting does. Shorting is no different to buying. I bet you more people lost money on pump and dump (distortion from buying) then evil shorter attacks.
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Indeed. I don't know why everybody hates people profiting from a bear market but they love it when people (and banks/fundmanagers) profit from a bull market.

Either way somebody gains somebody loses. However I'd suggest more people lose when speculators push retirees super funds twice as high as they should be when they decide to retire, only to be brought straight back to fair value by the "evil" short sellers.
 
Regarding that article of the "tax";

"The UK has said it will "resist" a financial transaction tax on EU members proposed by the European Commission."

This won't help the markets, no sir...
 
skc said:
Why the crusade on shorting?
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1 throw away comment is hardly a crusade. :)

There's just something wrong about betting against something, it just doesn't sit well with me...im a purist when it come to placing bets and so if you want to bet against something then just back the rest of the field.

Just the fact that any form of shorting is a bet with a bookie (CFD provider) or a complex derivative, says something about the what's at the heart of the short...its a phoney, made up, fake bet...i mean selling something you don't have on the promise of later buying what you have sold (that you don't have) so you can profit from the difference.

LOL the Nigerian scammers couldn't of come up with something like that cos no one would of believed it.

LostMyShirt said:
Regarding that article of the "tax";

"The UK has said it will "resist" a financial transaction tax on EU members proposed by the European Commission."

This won't help the markets, no sir...
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The EU needs a mechanism to raise lots of money, a mechanism that's politicly palatable and doesn't have a negative affect on GDP...a financial transaction tax on stocks and derivatives ticks all 3 boxes.

Its a near perfect fix....how the hell wouldn't it help the markets?
 
So_Cynical said:
1 throw away comment is hardly a crusade. :)

There's just something wrong about betting against something, it just doesn't sit well with me...im a purist when it come to placing bets and so if you want to bet against something then just back the rest of the field.

Just the fact that any form of shorting is a bet with a bookie (CFD provider) or a complex derivative, says something about the what's at the heart of the short...its a phoney, made up, fake bet...i mean selling something you don't have on the promise of later buying what you have sold (that you don't have) so you can profit from the difference.
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So now you are staging a crusade?

Short selling can be done with normal equities. You don't need to use CFD and there is nothing complex about it. It's not even a derivative. It's actually direct equity. Your broker borrow stocks from long holders in order for you to short sell. So if you want to blame short sellers you must also blame those long holders (which by and large are mutual and super funds who try to get that extra few bps on their performance) for lending their shares.

Not all aspects of CFDs are bookies. DMA CFDs are essentially the same as trading equities with leverage and you are entering the market yourself. The only difference being you have a back to back CFD contract with the provider.

Short selling has been around for as long as the share market has been around... there is nothing phoney or fake about it. Just because it is not something you understand or able to utilise, doesn't make it illegitimate.

You can perhaps argue the social utility of short selling... but I would say it has as much utility as buying on the share market as well.
 
So_Cynical said:
There's just something wrong about betting against something, it just doesn't sit well with me...im a purist when it come to placing bets and so if you want to bet against something then just back the rest of the field.

Just the fact that any form of shorting is a bet with a bookie (CFD provider) or a complex derivative, says something about the what's at the heart of the short...its a phoney, made up, fake bet...i mean selling something you don't have on the promise of later buying what you have sold (that you don't have) so you can profit from the difference.

LOL the Nigerian scammers couldn't of come up with something like that cos no one would of believed it.
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You are arguing against the normal course of many businesses.

1/ Hedgers (commodity (such as oil, wheat, coffee, cocoa etc) producers and buyers) would not be able insure their prices without the means to short sell futures. In fact futures could not even exist without short selling.

2/ The option market would cease and people would be unable to insure their portfolios.

3/ You would never be able to order anything from any business. Run of the mill businesses routinely sell people something the business does not yet posses, in the hope/knowledge that it can be purchased cheaper. This is the same mechanics as short selling.

4/ And guess what every short sale requires - A BUYER!
 
wayneL said:
You are arguing against the normal course of many businesses.

1/ Hedgers (commodity (such as oil, wheat, coffee, cocoa etc) producers and buyers) would not be able insure their prices without the means to short sell futures. In fact futures could not even exist without short selling.

2/ The option market would cease and people would be unable to insure their portfolios.

3/ You would never be able to order anything from any business. Run of the mill businesses routinely sell people something the business does not yet posses, in the hope/knowledge that it can be purchased cheaper. This is the same mechanics as short selling.

4/ And guess what every short sale requires - A BUYER!
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Pity the jerks in Eurofantasyland aren't listening....

Italian and Spanish financial market regulators extended temporary bans on short selling of financial shares that were introduced last month in a bid to stem market volatility.

The European Securities and Markets Authority announced the extension by the two countries in an e-mailed statement. The Spanish ban will remain “until the market conditions allow it” to be lifted, the country’s financial regulator said in an e- mailed statement. Italy’s restriction, and another enacted by France in August, will both last until Nov. 11.
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http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-...selling-financial-stocks-amid-volatility.html

So much for any short covering rallies in financials for them from here on....now they are backed hard up against the wall of death...LOL.

Good luck!

PS - No major short cover on the US DOW last night in final hour - more like capitulation for now - until the next "plan" can be spruiked. :cool:
 
Assuming part of our rise in financials over the last few days was short covering, it will be interesting to see if the hedge funds recommence shorting financials today & tomorrow.
 
wayneL said:
You are arguing against the normal course of many businesses.
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Nice one Wayne. I was going to write something like that but it was already past mid night and I couldn't be bothered since So_C isn't the regulator who can ban short selling. So why (or where) on earth did you post that at 3am...

Aussiejeff said:
Pity the jerks in Eurofantasyland aren't listening....

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-...selling-financial-stocks-amid-volatility.html

So much for any short covering rallies in financials for them from here on....now they are backed hard up against the wall of death...LOL.

PS - No major short cover on the US DOW last night in final hour - more like capitulation for now - until the next "plan" can be spruiked.
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And for the record...

since the short sale ban was instituted, SocGen is down 18.5% and UniCredit is down 26.6%.
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http://www.zerohedge.com/news/no-more-shorting-financials-europe-ever

The vote in Germany tonight should kill the Eurobond by stealth fantasy in the last few days...

nulla nulla said:
Assuming part of our rise in financials over the last few days was short covering, it will be interesting to see if the hedge funds recommence shorting financials today & tomorrow.
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Man Group, the world's largest hedge fund group, plunged 25% last night in London.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-09-28/man-group-assets-under-management-fall-8-5-.html

Man Group Plc (EMG) fell the most in three years in London trading after the world’s biggest hedge fund said its assets under management will decline by $6 billion amid “suppressed” demand for investment products.

The stock dropped 25 percent to 180 pence, the most since Nov. 6, 2008. Assets will fall 8.5 percent to $65 billion through September from $71 billion at the end of June, the London-based company said in a statement today. Man Group had outflows of $2.6 billion from its funds in the second quarter, with investors pulling money from strategies betting that stocks will rise and funds focused on emerging markets.
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Lower high on the DOW and Euros last night.

Looks like we will get ours today with the SPI closing -58

The German vote tonight might be the catalyst for the market to sh$t it self if it gets voted down.
 
LifeChoices said:
233358-pokies.jpg

Who wants to make a bet (I mean make an investment) that Chasero changes his mind.
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If you read my previous post I've already sold it.

I love the sarcasm reeking from your post. When someone makes a move you disagree with just throw the 'gambling' card their way. Nice touch.

I'm just going to stop posting what I'm doing as Im tired of all of these 'gambling' responses.
 
lenny said:
Lower high on the DOW and Euros last night.

Looks like we will get ours today with the SPI closing -58

The German vote tonight might be the catalyst for the market to sh$t it self if it gets voted down.
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It would be catastrophic if it gets voted down and the general consensus is that it will pass. But the vote is only to ratify the expansion in EFSF back in July and the vote count will reveal how likely/unlikely it is for German to agree to an even larger EFSF or its use of leverage...
 
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