The monetary system only works if people don't understand it

Starcraftmazter said:

Buddy, that makes absolutely zero sense. Please do even try to explain it, and I promise I will without insult explain why you are wrong.

There can never be "not enough" money. Gold can be priced at anything required relative to other assets. When growth exceeds gold supply growth the miracle of deflation occurs. This is one of the key differences between our current system and the godly gold system - it benefits the people, whereas the current system benefits the elite. That is why they spread lies and other bull**** about gold.

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Deflation never has and never will benefit the people. Deflation benefits those with money and ****s up those without it. I have mentioned it before and I will mention it again, money attracts money. If I recall, it has been mentioned elsewhere in this forum. If you have a group of people, and you give $100 equally to each one of them. In the end you will end up with only a few of the group having all the wealth. Those few with the money do not consume enough to redistribute the wealth, and in fact are more likely to try and acquire more wealth with their current wealth than to destroy their wealth through consumption. This results in hoarding, hoarding results in the shrinkage of the money supply, without the corresponding decrease in the price of goods. Under a limited money supply such as the gold standard, all the gold would quickly end up in the hands of a very few, thus meaning there is a lack of money in the system for everyone else to facilitate exchange. Lack of money, not enough to facilitate exchange = unemployment.

I would appreciate it if you would watch the original videos, before making further comments based on information you got from gold spruikers.

lurker123 said:

Deflation never has and never will benefit the people. Deflation benefits those with money and ****s up those without it.

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Everyone who works has money.

lurker123 said:

Those few with the money do not consume enough to redistribute the wealth, and in fact are more likely to try and acquire more wealth with their current wealth than to destroy their wealth through consumption. This results in hoarding, hoarding results in the shrinkage of the money supply, without the corresponding decrease in the price of goods.

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In a true free market economy, it is not possible that a shrinkage in the money supply does not cause deflation in the price of goods. That is simply not possible.

Furthermore, gold doesn't magically shrink. The money supply can never shrink with gold.

lurker123 said:

Under a limited money supply such as the gold standard, all the gold would quickly end up in the hands of a very few, thus meaning there is a lack of money in the system for everyone else to facilitate exchange. Lack of money, not enough to facilitate exchange = unemployment.

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Gold would not end up in the hands of a few. Again, the US has existed under the gold standard for a very long time, and it has made it the most prosperous country on the planet at the time. Since being taken over by central banks, it has been ruined. What you say is simply not true historically.

The only and only way you can have those with disproportionate wealth steal the rest is with central & fractional reserve banking . Without it, the gold standard can exist fairly for all.

lurker123 said:

I would appreciate it if you would watch the original videos, before making further comments based on information you got from gold spruikers.

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Alright, link precisely which videos make whatever point you want, and I will be happy to refute them.

Just an observation: SCM you have rather avoided saying whether you're actually employed or not. Given the time you spend posting on this forum, if you do have an employer he/she is hardly getting value for money.

Probably more likely that you're an unemployed uni student with nothing better to do than troll internet fora.

Julia said:

Just an observation: SCM you have rather avoided saying whether you're actually employed or not. Given the time you spend posting on this forum, if you do have an employer he/she is hardly getting value for money.

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Pretty sure I have, not that it's anyone's business. Whether you think so or not is not really relevant to me. Seems like all people around here do when they've been proven wrong is take threads off topic with personal insults and such.

Starcraftmazter said:

Pretty sure I have, not that it's anyone's business. Whether you think so or not is not really relevant to me. Seems like all people around here do when they've been proven wrong is take threads off topic with personal insults and such.

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Your standard of 'proof' obviously does not match up to the rest of us.

Re your employment, it goes to your credibility, which seems to be at a low ebb right now.

You just have to realize that many of the members here know about stuff via experience, you should respect that and perhaps a little bit of respect might be reciprocated.

wayneL said:

You just have to realize that many of the members here know about stuff via experience, you should respect that and perhaps a little bit of respect might be reciprocated.

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I'm sure they do, and if you haven't noticed, not once have I argued with anyone about their stock valuations of stock analysis or anything else like that.

Certain other things however, people sure do say a lot of crap about here, which is only going to result in some unfortunate people losing a lot of money. Like the property spruiking by a lot of members

Starcraftmazter said:

Alright, link precisely which videos make whatever point you want, and I will be happy to refute them.

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I suggest that when you have time to spare on the weekend to watch the money masters, the original 1996 video, link is in the previous post. Gold spruikers take bits and pieces from the video and conveniently leave out all the rest which conflicts with their view that gold is good.

The federal reserve came into existence under the gold standard, the fed is simply a tool the elites developed to control the wealth. The fed is not part of fiat currency, fiat currency came after the fed was already formed under the gold standard. All the bankster families, acquired their wealth under the gold standard. It is even mentioned in the video in your link, that after the panic of 1907 JP Morgan intervened as the lender of last resort. How were all these bankster families able to create the fed in the first place, how was JP Morgan able to intervene as the lender of last resort? The answer is that the banksters were able to acquire massive amounts of wealth under the gold standard, hence JP Morgan backed by the wealth of the bankster families was able to intervene. Which eventually led to the creation of the fed. Going even further back in time to the 15th to 19th century, under the gold standard, gold smiths were already manipulating money. All this history is detailed in the money masters.

lurker123 said:

The federal reserve came into existence under the gold standard, the fed is simply a tool the elites developed to control the wealth. The fed is not part of fiat currency, fiat currency came after the fed was already formed under the gold standard. All the bankster families, acquired their wealth under the gold standard. It is even mentioned in the video in your link, that after the panic of 1907 JP Morgan intervened as the lender of last resort. How were all these bankster families able to create the fed in the first place, how was JP Morgan able to intervene as the lender of last resort? The answer is that the banksters were able to acquire massive amounts of wealth under the gold standard, hence JP Morgan backed by the wealth of the bankster families was able to intervene. Which eventually led to the creation of the fed. Going even further back in time to the 15th to 19th century, under the gold standard, gold smiths were already manipulating money. All this history is detailed in the money masters.

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Yes, that is why I'm against central banking. I have never said I want a gold standard under central banking, it would clearly be almost as bad.

That's why I keep saying that only the government must be able to issue currency, not any central bank.

And yes, JP Morgan was a scumbag, but it's not as though the gold standard made him a scumbag. What do you suggest, and his kind can't make money under the current system? At least back then people didn't have to deal with inflation and tax.

The recent Lie-bor story is a good example of what I was trying to say.

I reckon if I told my colleague today "OMG did you know all these bankers colluded to set their own interest rate?!??!?!" she'd be like "so?" not really (bothering) understanding what the hell I was going on about. I mean, this should be huge, huge news for everyone, but I don't think anyone outside of the finance world would be reading about it.

However, imagine if everyone in the world cared about how the interest rate was set...I reckon the odds of them even daring to do this would be so much slimmer.

Attempts by Opposition Leader Tony Abbott to compare Australia's economy to struggling European economies are ''absurd'' and ''grossly irresponsible'', according to Prime Minister Julia Gillard.

Mr Abbott today backed comments from the former Future Fund head David Murray that Australia risked a European-style economic downturn if debt was not addressed, sparking the ire of senior Labor figures, who claimed such comparisons were dangerous.

The latest round of economic sparring between the two major parties came after Mr Murray yesterday said Australia's dependence on the rest of the world for trade and capital financing made it ''easily possible'' to follow the path of countries such as Greece which face problems repaying their sovereign debt problems.

Mr Abbott pronounced Mr Murray's comments a ''timely warning'', saying the former head of the Future Fund was ''very well placed to look at our economic performance''.

''The lesson of Europe is that countries can go very quickly from a strong position to a parlous position if things aren't well managed,'' Mr Abbott said.

Treasurer Wayne Swan launched an immediate counter-attack, claiming Mr Abbott had ''sunk to new depths of negativity and economic recklessness in talking our economy down''.

''These kinds of ill-informed comments show the Liberals' determination to talk the economy down is downright dangerous to the economy and to the living standards of every Australian,'' Mr Swan said.

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http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/gilla...ponsible-economic-warning-20121004-271hb.html

This is on point with my original post - it looks like from what Swan and Gillard say, it gives the impression that they are trying to keep Australians in the dark, and that if the truth came out, then it'd be "downright dangerous".