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The kids of today...

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I don't think we can blame Gen. Y for this one
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While there are exceptions, animals are usually a product of their environment. If we're screwed up, it will largely be because we have been screwed with. How can a generation just go bad? It doesn't, and the reason behind it lies in the world that the older generations have created.

I'm not actually saying that we're screwed up and that baby boomers to blame, but for those that do thing that, consider the probable reason for it.
 
Mr J said:
While there are exceptions, animals are usually a product of their environment. If we're screwed up, it will largely be because we have been screwed with. How can a generation just go bad? It doesn't, and the reason behind it lies in the world that the older generations have created.

I'm not actually saying that we're screwed up and that baby boomers to blame, but for those that do thing that, consider the probable reason for it.
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Yeh a line from a Blink182 song:

If we're ****ed up, you're to blame
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Judd said:
Yep this BB agrees. By the bye, extensive long-term studies of twins brought up in the same household, twins separated at birth and brought up in different households, adopted children, siblings brought up in same household, siblings separated and brought up in different households have shown that parenting has absolutely minimal to zero effect on the outcome of these children as adults.
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This is rubbish.

There is no way that this could be tested as you described, the confounders are unmistakable.

Genetics plays a small role, and nuture plays a MASSIVE role.
 
Mr J said:
... If we're screwed up, it will largely be because we have been screwed with. How can a generation just go bad? It doesn't, and the reason behind it lies in the world that the older generations have created.

I'm not actually saying that we're screwed up and that baby boomers to blame, but for those that do thing that, consider the probable reason for it.
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Oh yes, yes, find somebody responsible for behaviour.

As if nobody can think for themselves, or do better then generation before with all the baaad examples.
 
Happy said:
Oh yes, yes, find somebody responsible for behaviour.

As if nobody can think for themselves, or do better then generation before with all the baaad examples.
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You think people are magically born with a certain standard of morales? No, people learn from social interaction. If the influences are bad, it will likely rub off. Like I said, a generation doesn't just go bad. It doesn't work like that. Monkey see, monkey do.
 
I wish the kids of today would learn how to spell and use punctuation correctly... but I also wish a lot of the adults of today would too. :(
 
Soft Dough said:
This is rubbish.

There is no way that this could be tested as you described, the confounders are unmistakable.

Genetics plays a small role, and nuture plays a MASSIVE role.
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Agree completely SD - no way that parenting has minimal effect on kids, how else do they learn? Maybe not always from direct parenting, what they say, but definitely from what they do.

PS Also note that while homicide rates in Oz peaked in 1988, other violent crime (serious assault, rape, robbery) has steadily increased over time.

http://www.aic.gov.au/publications/tandi/ti61.pdf
 
Happy said:
Fair enough for monkey.

But humans can think for themselves and do better if they want to.

Of course they can use the MONKEY excuse too, it is their choice.
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My point is that we learn by watching those around us. If those around us do not set a good example, it is unreasonable to expect us to do so in the future. If a certain generation is acting a certain way, rather than criticise, perhaps you (not you specifically) should think about why they're acting that way.

If you think that people are born with a certain standard of morals and know right from wrong without any outside influence, then it isn't worth discussing this any further.
 
Mr J said:
My point is that we learn by watching those around us. If those around us do not set a good example, it is unreasonable to expect us to do so in the future. If a certain generation is acting a certain way, rather than criticise, perhaps you (not you specifically) should think about why they're acting that way.
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To paraphrase It was Plato or someone similar, "give me the boy for the first seven years, and I'll give you the man". But maybe kids were expected to be more adult in behaviour way back then?? I think nature has some influence, which is then shaped by nurture.

So where does this leave the kids of tomorrow.......???
 
Read and make your own minds up. However, it is probable that a number have already formed a view in which case this stuff is unlikely to alter it. And fair enough too as eveyone is entitled to hold their point of view.

http://mctfr.psych.umn.edu/

http://www.psych.umn.edu/psylabs/mtfs/default.htm

http://www.psych.umn.edu/psylabs/mtfs/mtrf1.htm


Critiques of these studies are (from Wikipedia):

* Farber, S. L. (1981). Identical twins reared apart: A reanalysis. New York: Basic Books.
* Joseph, J. (2004). The Gene Illusion: Genetic Research in Psychiatry and Psychology Under the Microscope.New York: Algora. (2003 United Kingdom Edition by PCCS Books)
* Joseph, J. (2001). Separated Twins and the Genetics of Personality Differences: A Critique. American Journal of Psychology, 114, 1-30
* Kamin, L. J. (1974). The Science and Politics of I.Q. Potomac, MD: Lawrence Erlbaum Associates.
* Taylor, H. F. (1980). The IQ Game: A Methodological Inquiry into the Heredity-Environment Controversy. New Brunswick, NJ: Rutgers University Press.
* Schonemann, P.H. (1997). Models and muddles of Heritability. Genetica 99, 97-108.
* Schonemann, P.H. (1990). Environmental versus genetic variance components models for identical twins: A critique of Jinks and Fulker’s reanalysis of the Shield’s data. Cahiers de Psychologie Cognitive/European Bulletin of Psychology 10: 451-473
* Wahlsten, D. (1990). Insensitivity of the Analysis of variance to heredity-environment interations. Behavioral and Brain Sciences 13: 109-120
 
johenmo said:
To paraphrase It was Plato or someone similar, "give me the boy for the first seven years, and I'll give you the man". But maybe kids were expected to be more adult in behaviour way back then?? I think nature has some influence, which is then shaped by nurture.

So where does this leave the kids of tomorrow.......???
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The phrase was acually: "Give me a child until he is seven and I will give you the man".
It was a motto of the Jesuits.
 
to whom it may concern , i am happy to provide spelling and punctuation lessons for a small fee.

please contact a.nun in PC for payment details

thankyou
 
In the context of paid employment, I'd much rather have a team of Gen Y's rather than Boomers any day.

Gen Y's - "Can do" and they just get on with it. No complaints unless there's a genuine problem (eg safety, resources etc) and even then they present both the problem and a solution.

Boomers - Constant whinging and attempts to avoid anything that they don't consider "their" work. Problem after problem after problem.

Enough said really. Even with the cost of training and a few mistakes due to inexperience, the Gen Y's are still outstandingly good value workers.:2twocents
 
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