- Joined
- 14 February 2005
- Posts
- 15,384
- Reactions
- 17,795
All comes down to the difference in timeframe.And these are/were the muppets who should have known better.
All comes down to the difference in timeframe.
Big energy projects span decades or more. Years to investigate it, a decade to build it, then it runs for 40+ years. The whole thing takes place over an extended period.
So energy planning necessarily looks far into the future. Firstly to make sure enough is built but secondly because there's no point building something if the resource isn't there to support it. There's no point building a coal, gas or whatever generating plant if you don't have the fuel to support its operation over its lifetime.
Versus politics which looks no further ahead than the next election.
Therein lies the problem.
I think we need all of the above, it depends on the time scale.
Hydro will take decades, wind and solar a less amount of time, but these require storage which will take longer.
Imo the priority should be gas turbines (that can run on multi fuels), nothing else gives the despatchable power of coal in a reasonably short time frame.
No doubt people will argue this.
Don't forget the grid also!I should have said priority for government investment should be gas turbines. Eventually if things go well with wind and solar GT's will be peaking plants and private enterprise is not interested in assets that stand idle.
Private enterprise should be encouraged to build as much solar and wind as they want to, necessary hydro should proceed, and more subsidies should be offered for rooftop solar, in other words is not this OR that, it's everything, everywhere all at once to coin a phrase.
Likewise. Go forward far enough and all this will be a curious footnote in history - someone will no doubt learn of it and be wondering why so much fuss? Didn't they understand maths and physics well enough back in the 2020's? What was so hard?I am confident we will get there. Won't be fun for a few years though.
112427RESERVE NOTICE16/12/2023 03:34:00 PM
STPASA - Update to the Forecast Lack Of Reserve Level 2 (LOR2) in the NSW Region on 19/12/2023
AEMO ELECTRICITY MARKET NOTICE
The Forecast LOR2 condition in the NSW region advised in AEMO Electricity Market Notice No. 112392 has been updated at 1530 hrs 16/12/2023 to the following:
From 1330 hrs to 1600 hrs 19/12/2023.
The forecast capacity reserve requirement is 685 MW.
The minimum capacity reserve available is 128 MW.
AEMO is seeking a market response.
AEMO estimates that the latest time at which permission can be given for a planned outage to proceed is 0530 hrs on 19/12/2023.
Manager NEM RTO
Big energy projects span decades or more. Years to investigate it, a decade to build it, then it runs for 40+ years. The whole thing takes place over an extended period.
Where there is Government money involved, there are people trying to find a way to milk it.Plus getting things through the Land and Environment and Native Title Courts.
Really, governments have to pass legislation allowing them to declare projects of national importance that can by-pass the courts, otherwise nothing will ever be done.
Silly you, they just want for their voice to be heardWhere there is Government money involved, there are people trying to find a way to milk it.
This bloke might read ASF
<<A top Australian engineer has warned the country’s power grid is unstable and incapable of coping with surging demand – and has proposed a controversial solution.
Adi Paterson is the former chief of the Australian Nuclear Science and Technology Organisation and has written to Prime Minister Anthony Albanese demanding urgent action to keep the nation’s lights on.
“Your electricity plan, for a massive expansion of the grid with wind and solar sources is deeply flawed, and expensive. It will fail to deliver quality, 24-hour electricity,” Dr Paterson warned.
Mass blackouts in rural areas last Friday, sparked by strain on the eastern power grid, should serve as a warning signal to the public and businesses – and are a sign of things to come, he added.>>
Someone is talking his own book it seems, but nuclear shouldn't be banned forever. One thing is sure, we are getting closer to the precipice and I think the public is starting to think that the government thinks that emissions reduction is more important than keeping the lights on.
That will change very quickly when a few dinners are spoiled due to blackouts.
No traffic lights, no petrol stations, or at least on a rolling blackout roster.It will take a Big blackout in Sydney to start the Social media storm that is required for it to become "urgent"
If a storm over the Blue Mountains cuts the power from one of the few remaining coal fired plants and then there is a blackout until the sun comes up that will cause a stir.
No charged phones or cars, no AC for the heat pool of Western Sydney, no hot breaky, lots of hot, cranky people on Social media should do the job
No lift, no water in high rise,no heating cooling, and no data/news...no tv..no phone news people like headless chook and no food within 3 days...No traffic lights, no petrol stations, or at least on a rolling blackout roster.
FUn, fun, fun.
For an unplanned incident, the kind of thing that would occur if a major generation failure unexpectedly occurs, UFLS (Under Frequency Load Shedding) will disconnect load in blocks once frequency thresholds are breached.Question for Smurf when the system on the East Coast gets overwhel who gets cut off 1st industry or domestic, is there a choice?
Great info as usual smurf.
@IFocus on a local note, they have done a lot of distribution splitting in Mandurah's CBD, if you come into town from the station down Peel St, have a look at the pole on the corner of Sholl St.
Also the CBD residential is quietly getting remote read and operate meters, so I would say they are getting ready for the unexpected.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?