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It sounds as though there will be a major outage to strip the alternator @Smurf1976
It's good enough provided that there's an adequate storage system, or alternatively backup, to go with it.Electricity generation from wind/solar might be intermittent, but predicatble in the short term, which is good enough for the market
The weird part is @Smurf1976 that people think that generators would rather run coal than renewables, it shows the level of ignorance in the general public IMO.
As you know if it was as easy as just building a 1000MW solar/wind farm and shut down the 1,00MW power station, AGL, Origin etc would jump at it, then when everyone is sitting in the dark with the toilet overflowing people would wonder why.
New AGL unit outage adds to energy pain
Wholesale power prices have jumped by 150 per cent amid soaring coal and gas costs while heavy rain dampened solar output, Origin Energy warns.
Yes the export parity pricing should be reviewed, but then the media would be screaming that the Government are making coal and gas cheaper because they don't like renewables.A government with guts would require that OUR coal and gas is delivered for local use at reasonable prices and then let the rest of the world haggle over the price they want to pay for the remainder.
No doubt telling you what you already know here but for the benefit of others.....It will come to a head in the next 10 years IMO.
No doubt telling you what you already know here but for the benefit of others.....
An integrated utility, either government or privately owned, would take a very different view of all this. In short:
1. Have a plan. What to build, in what order to build it and so on.
2. Build the new things then go through a thorough testing and commissioning process.
3. Old stuff ceases to be used and is retained on standby for a time "just in case" until there's absolute confidence that it's not needed.
Trouble is, we don't now have integrated utilities that can simply carry the cost of doing that. Now we have numerous entities all competing on price alone and without the ability to carry the cost of having plant sitting there just in case. Hence the rush to demolish, in some cases literally blow up with explosives, anything that isn't being run.
Northern, Playford B, Anglesea, Morwell, Hazelwood, Munmorah and so on. All you'll find there today is some flat land and in some cases a concrete pad where it's rather obvious something used to be there but there's nothing left of them in terms of being a power station. Gone.
Only stuff that's mothballed as such is the Tamar Valley CCGT in Tasmania which is properly mothballed for future use if needed. Plus the not in service units at Torrens Island in SA - the 4 x 120 MW are being properly mothballed although I'll be seriously surprised if they're ever returned to service in practice. There's also a 200 MW unit that's out of service but that one I expect probably will be returned someday - needs some work done however but it's not stuffed.
Exactly. A plan for the future is needed , not just continual brain farts about what looks good or is politically correct at the time.
OK , the first approach may be less flexible , but at least it provides some certainty, not a continual fear among consumers that the lights will go out...
The single biggest thing about the UK's decision to build more nuclear isn't about the reactors themselves or anything relating to them.
Rather, it's about who made the decision - government.
The actual champion of the cause for "liberalised" electricity markets is back into central planning in a big way and they won't be the last because, quite frankly, the idea just doesn't work particularly well due to its inherent lack of long term planning. Competing businesses can do the short term stuff, that with a lifespan of 25 or so years, quite easily but they do tend to baulk at the idea of first revenue being 15 years away and a 200 year project lifecycle and doing that in a competitive market with zero guarantees.
Government getting back into it, in the country which championed the cause of doing the opposite, is big news.
Power price surge slugs big users
The Australian Energy Regulator is investigating after wholesale electricity tariffs rose above $5000 per megawatt hour.
Green power needs more than just solar panels and wind turbines
Electricity grids themselves must be tweaked to cope
No good deed, an old saying has it, goes unpunished. That is certainly true of the introduction of green energy. The unreliability of solar and wind power compared with that generated by fossil fuels is well known—and with it the concomitant need for storage facilities such as large battery packs to smooth things over.
But green energy brings another, more subtle, problem. Modern electrical grids operate on alternating currents (ac), and these need to be of a fixed and reliable frequency (usually either 50hz or 60hz). This frequency’s stability is maintained by a phenomenon called grid inertia, which results from the real, physical inertia (as described by Isaac Newton’s first law of motion) embodied in the power-generating turbines of fossil-fuel (and also nuclear and hydroelectric) power stations.
Going for a spin
These turbines act as massive, inertia-storing flywheels. As long as their outputs are in synchrony (and one important part of grid management is to keep them that way), the resistance to change which their inertia provides stabilises the whole grid. The fewer the number of these turbines (as opposed to wind turbines, which rotate out of sync with the grid, and solar panels, which do not rotate at all), the less inertia a grid has. And in some particularly green countries this is getting to be a problem, to the extent that non-power-generating flywheels are being added to the system to provide the missing inertia.
One such place is Britain, which generates about 30% of its electrical power from wind and sunlight. On March 17th, for example, National Grid eso—the firm that, as its name suggests, operates the country’s electricity grid—cut the opening ribbon on a plant built near Keith, in northern Scotland, by Statkraft, a Norwegian renewable-energy firm. The inertia in this plant is stored by a pair of steel flywheels (see picture of the road train required to deliver them). Each of these flywheels weighs 194 tonnes and rotates at up to 500 revolutions per minute (rpm).
A second Statkraft plant should open in the autumn, near Liverpool. Instead of large masses rotating relatively slowly, this will rely on smaller ones spinning fast (1,500rpm). Both approaches embody about the same amount of inertia, and in combination the pair will store around 2% of the inertia currently required to support Britain’s grid. That is equivalent to the inertial contribution of a conventional coal-fired station. Moreover, later in the year National Grid esoplans to add two more systems, built by Siemens, to increase its inertia-storing potential still further.
There is, though, an alternative to building new flywheels, and that is to repurpose old ones—in other words, to redesign existing fossil-fuel stations simply to store inertia, rather than generating electricity. National Grid eso is testing that idea, too, in a former gas-fired station in north Wales. This has been open for business as an inertia store since 2021.
The firm hopes, as well as all this, to develop ways of stabilising the network without spinning lumps of metal for their own sake. That will involve the use of what are known as grid-forming inverters.
Both solar power, which is a direct current (dc) when it comes out of the generating panel, and wind power, which is ac but still needs to be tweaked before being fed into a grid, are first processed by semiconductor-based devices called inverters. This is also true of the dc drawn from storage devices such as batteries, which are employed to smooth out irregularities in solar and wind power.
Existing inverters are described as “grid following”. This means they monitor and fit in with the established frequency of the grid they are feeding into. That suits grid managers well enough when solar and wind contribute only a small fraction of a grid’s total power, but is progressively less suitable as that contribution rises. However, inverters can be designed to be “grid forming” instead—meaning the current they put out mimics the external stabilising effect of mechanical inertia. Using grid-forming inverters rather than grid-following ones should allow much more wind and solar power to be integrated easily into a grid.
Until recently, grid-forming inverters had been tested only at small scale. In January, however, Britain’s energy regulator, Ofgem, signed off on a technical standard acceptable to both manufacturers and service providers. That will permit their large-scale deployment, and Julian Leslie, National Grid eso’s chief engineer, says he expects big grid-forming inverters to be providing inertia within two years.
Grid lock
Being an island, Britain has a more or less self-contained electricity grid. This makes it a good place to try such an experiment. Success would encourage other island grids, both real (Australia’s and Ireland’s, for example) and metaphorical (such as Texas’s, which has few links with the rest of North America) to try. Larger grids in North America and Europe will no doubt be watching from the wings.
The quest for grid inertia, then, is an example of the nitty-gritty adjustments needed to accommodate the shift in energy production and use that is now going on. Other technologies, from electric cars to hydrogen-gas supplies, may have higher profiles. But what is happening down in the engine room of the green economy is just as important—if not more so. ■
Green power needs more than just solar panels and wind turbines
Electricity grids themselves must be tweaked to copewww.economist.com
There's a huge amount of pain coming on the price front that's for sure.Power price surge slugs big users
The Australian Energy Regulator is investigating after wholesale electricity tariffs rose above $5000 per megawatt hour.
There's a huge amount of pain coming on the price front that's for sure.
Even at off-peak times we're seeing ridiculous prices, it's over $200 in Qld, NSW and SA right now in the middle of the night.
Financially I can only think that something's going to break. It wouldn't surprise me if someone ended up going broke at this rate in much the same manner as has occurred overseas, most notably the UK where 31 energy retailers, out of about 70 in the market, have failed over the past year or so.
Suffice to say none of this comes as a surprise to those involved, it's been coming for a long time and won't be fixed quickly.
Primary reason I've lost interest in politics is broader than this one issue.@Smurf1976, I know you don't like talking politics, but can you see anything in any Party policy that would help fix the problems you have been detailing for some time ?
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