The future of energy generation and storage

[SirRumpole]

SA Power Networks (SAPN) distribution network load:

View attachment 132532

Below zero yes so we've now had several occurrences, dates as above, where load on the distribution network in SA drops below zero. That is, customers connected to the distribution network are generating more than they're using at that time.

Note for those not aware, the distribution network is what supplies electricity to homes, shops, offices and so on and does not include anything connected directly to the transmission network (eg mining and heavy industry).

This is thought to be a world first for a large scale power system, the only precedents being small islands and things like that.

Press release is here: https://www.sapowernetworks.com.au/data/311762/press-release-sa-network-sets-new-mark-for-solar/

Nice, so what happened to the excess ?

Distributed to other states, put into storage or lost ?

 

[mullokintyre]

One of the forgotten Energy sources has been Nuclear Fusion 9as distinct from Nuclear Fission).
From Reuters

Nov 5 (Reuters) - Helion Energy, a fusion energy tech startup, on Friday said it raised $500 million to build a net positive electrical generator, one that creates more power than it uses.

The latest round values the company at $3 billion. Helion said $1.7 billion in follow on investments were committed if it can prove its technology works, which would be a major step toward making fusion technology a practical solution for generating power while emitting no carbon.


Fusion is the process that fires the sun as the nuclei of two atoms fuse under extreme heat. It creates enormous amounts of energy.

Helion’s newest prototype named Polaris will add a so-called regenerative energy technology to its fusion technology already developed to generate electricity, said Helion founder and CEO David Kirtley. The target date for demonstration is 2024.


The company broke ground in Everett, Washington in July to build the generator which will be the size of two shipping containers and create enough electricity to power 40,000 homes, said Kirtley. If it works, the $1.7 billion follow-on investments will be used to develop a commercial system, he said.

“There's a real future for fusion to be part of this climate change and clean energy discussion,” said Kirtley, adding that other fusion energy companies were also pushing the timeline forward. He said there were over 40 private fusion companies today.


Fusion has advantages over fission as the fuel is derived from water, not radioactive uranium or plutonium and doesn’t generate long-term radioactive waste.

Sam Altman, a well-known investor and artificial intelligence researcher in Silicon Valley who led the round, said the long-term goal of Helion is not just to create clean energy but electricity that costs just one cent a kilowatt hour.

The path to the fusion Nirvana has been littered with failures and downright frauds (who remembers Pons and Fleischman?).
It would be an outstanding breakthrough if someone were able to construct a net positive Fusion reactor.
Mick

 

[SirRumpole]

One of the forgotten Energy sources has been Nuclear Fusion 9as distinct from Nuclear Fission).
From Reuters

The path to the fusion Nirvana has been littered with failures and downright frauds (who remembers Pons and Fleischman?).
It would be an outstanding breakthrough if someone were able to construct a net positive Fusion reactor.
Mick

Don't worry, fusion reactors are only 20 years away.

 

[Smurf1976]

Nice, so what happened to the excess ?

Distributed to other states, put into storage or lost ?

The answer is "all of the above" but it depends on circumstances.

Energy flowing from the distribution network into the transmission network is the reverse of what's normally intended, and was historically impossible simply because there was no generation connected to the distribution (except minor scale things like landfill gas generators, generation using waste by-products in industry and the smallest hydro stations in other states), but technically it can certainly happen. Transformers work in both directions.

So distribution feeds transmission which, historically, is only fed by large generation sources. That is power stations, wind farms etc.

It works so long as something is taking an equal volume out of the transmission system in real time. In SA's case that's heavy industry to the extent we have some, it's charging large scale batteries and it's sending it interstate (Victoria).

Where it becomes problematic however is with scale. We don't actually have that much heavy industrial energy use in SA, batteries can absorb energy but only for a relatively short period until fully charged, and the ability to export interstate is also limited and dependent on 3 lines two of which are on the same towers and thus subject to the risk of simultaneous failure (which has actually occurred quite dramatically in the past, several towers physically collapsed and came crashing down, so it's by no means purely hypothetical).

The workaround to that, used as a last resort only, is to switch off a portion of the rooftop solar. Needless to say the politics around that are painful to say the least but the reasoning is purely technical, it's not about solar versus coal or even about economics. It can't be allowed to happen where supply exceeds demand, it has to go somewhere, so the last resort is shutting systems off.

For new installations that's done via online communications. That's really only for those installed in the past 13 months however.

For all older installations there's a much cruder system in place which, to my knowledge, hasn't been tried anywhere else globally. Just intentionally push the voltage up and the more modern ones will reduce output whilst older models will simply cease functioning altogether once a threshold is reached. Do it gradually and it has the desired effect, the collective output from all the inverters declines smoothly, but for individual older inverters it'll be far more abrupt since they're "all or nothing" by their nature.

That's a crude approach and not an ideal one technically but it was implemented simply as something that was practical, could be done quickly, and has the desired result of working with every inverter regardless of age or brand if required in an emergency situation. It has only been used once thus far.

As an analogy, that approach is akin to fixing traffic congestion on a highway by simply blocking some of the roads which lead onto it. If vehicles can't get on the highway well then they can't overload it - brutal to those affected but it does achieve the objective.

 

[SirRumpole]

For all older installations there's a much cruder system in place which, to my knowledge, hasn't been tried anywhere else globally. Just intentionally push the voltage up and the more modern ones will reduce output whilst older models will simply cease functioning altogether once a threshold is reached.

So this is why people are reporting household appliances burning out, due to higher voltage ?

 

[Smurf1976]

So this is why people are reporting household appliances burning out, due to higher voltage ?

Given it has only been used once, and only in a fairly limited part of the state on that occasion, I can safely say there's no link.

In terms of magnitude, all its' really doing is pushing the voltage to the upper limits of the range that would be experienced anyway so it shouldn't cause anything to be damaged. That said, if something was about to fail anyway well then it plausibly could be the proverbial straw that breaks the camel's back.

 

[sptrawler]

As an analogy, that approach is akin to fixing traffic congestion on a highway by simply blocking some of the roads which lead onto it. If vehicles can't get on the highway well then they can't overload it - brutal to those affected but it does achieve the objective.

As has happened on Perth's "freeway", which most of the time during working hours, is a parking lot.

Freeway on-ramps to get traffic lights

The lights are designed to control the entry of cars during busy times of the day.

thewest.com.au

 

[mullokintyre]

It would seem that someone in the coaliton must be reading ASM.
They have finally issued a plan.
Not sure if its a good or bad plan, will need to wait for the technical details to come out, but at least now they have a "plan".
from Todays OZ

Scott Morrison’s electric vehicle strategy – a key plank of the government’s target for net-zero emissions by 2050 – will accelerate the rollout of charging and hydrogen refuelling stations across the country to support 1.7 million electric cars on the road by 2030.
As car manufacturers release timelines to end production of conventional vehicles, the Prime Minister said the government’s strategy would not force Australians out of their family sedans, utes and trucks.

Mr Morrison, who accused Bill Shorten of “ending the weekend” as the Coalition weaponised Labor’s electric vehicle strategy at the 2019 election, will spend $250m building charging stations in cities and towns and supporting businesses and governments transition to electric fleets.
The Future Fuels strategy – to be released on Tuesday and expected to drive more than $500m in combined private and public co-investment – is forecast to help slash carbon emissions by more than 8 million tonnes by 2035 and avoid $224m in electricity network upgrade costs.

Driving down transport emissions is considered crucial to achieving carbon neutrality by mid-century, with the government planning to create more than 2600 jobs through the construction of charging infrastructure across 400 businesses, 50,000 households and 1000 public-access fast-charging stations. New public charging stations would be accessed by up to 84 per cent of the population, covering about 21 million people, and reduce health costs by $200m to 2035.

Mr Morrison said the Future Fuels plan was designed to avoid taxes and offer “choices not mandates” as electric vehicle prices fall in line with demand.

Mick

 

[sptrawler]

It would seem that someone in the coaliton must be reading ASM.
They have finally issued a plan.
Not sure if its a good or bad plan, will need to wait for the technical details to come out, but at least now they have a "plan".
from Todays OZ

Mick

AS we have been saying as demand increases and the technology improves, so will the infrastructure, it was pointless throwing in infrastructure when there was no demand and no supply and the E.V charging protocols were different from vehicle to vehicle.
By 2025 all E.V's will be V2G enabled, most manufacturers will have at least a few models, Mitsubishi/Nissan/Renault are sharing a platform, to start any earlier rolling out a national charging network would have been madness IMO.
Below is an article I posted in August 2021, it is probably worth posting it again.

The biggest problem Australia has had, is the ranting and chanting has been by those with a political, or financial agenda, it had nothing to do with the technical and financial realities of E.V uptake. A measured sensible approach was always going to be better, than knee jerk reactions to media hype.
If we had installed a massive charging network two years ago, it would now all require replacing and or updating, as it wouldn't have had V2G charging equipment.

On a side note we may find especially in W.A, if the Woodside hydrogen plant at Kwinana goes ahead, W.A may indeed leap frog the BEV stage and embrace fuel cell technology, time will tell. There will obviously be both, but country W.A people who may have to travel 1,000klm in a day, may well opt for hydrogen power, same with those who live in outback Queensland, NT and S.A.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/science...grid-pays-ev-owners-for-electricity/100353072
From the article:
In July last year, one of the first Australian V2G trials began in the ACT, led by the Australian National University (ANU).

The two-year Realising Electric Vehicles-to-grid Services (REVS) trial would test V2G on a fleet of 51 mostly ACT Government EVs.

But it quickly hit a roadblock: bi-directional chargers (that can charge EV batteries and also export power from these batteries to the grid) had not been certified for use in Australia.
That's now been resolved and the newly certified chargers are on their way.

He said Australia was well placed to take advantage of V2G, due to it being a world leader in rooftop solar.

"Because of that, we have quite a lot of industry engagement from the electricity sector," he said.

But there's a long way to go.

The battery technology used in most EVs today, called CCS, is not compatible with V2G.

Of the cars sold in Australia, only the Nissan Leaf ZE1 and Mistubishi Outlander plug-in have V2G charging capability.

But that's due to change. By 2025, all new EVs will be V2G capable.

 

[SirRumpole]

AS we have been saying as demand increases and the technology improves, so will the infrastructure, it was pointless throwing in infrastructure when there was no demand and no supply and the E.V charging protocols were different from vehicle to vehicle.

There is STILL no demand and no supply.

Both sides want to intervene in the market. For Labor that is their ideology, for the LNP its a response to people like Biden and BoJo saying we are not doing enough.

 

[sptrawler]

There is STILL no demand and no supply.

Both sides want to intervene in the market. For Labor that is their ideology, for the LNP its a response to people like Biden and BoJo saying we are not doing enough.

That is true, also there is still only two manufacturers making V2G compatible cars, by 2025 all vehicles have to be V2G compatible, which is great but as usual early uptakers may be wedged, if they want to use import/ export pricing.
It will certainly be an interesting couple of years, coming up.

Grid upgrades, infrastructure rollout planned to handle electric car surge

The Prime Minister will on Tuesday reveal his government’s main priority will be ensuring the nation’s electricity system can handle the large-scale take-up of battery-electric vehicles over the coming decade while remaining reliable and affordable for all Australians.

www.smh.com.au

From the article:
The national energy grid will undergo several upgrades to ensure it can handle an anticipated 1.7 million electric cars on the road by 2030 as part of the federal government’s push towards net-zero emissions by mid-century.

The government will also significantly boost its investment in charging infrastructure, particularly in regional Australia, to help manage the transition towards an electrified national fleet and significantly cut pollution levels in the transport sector over the next decade.

Prime Minister Scott Morrison will on Tuesday reveal his government’s main priority will be ensuring the nation’s electricity system can handle the large-scale take-up of battery-electric vehicles over the coming decade while remaining reliable and affordable for all Australians.

The policy will include further taxpayer investment in emerging charging technologies that promote grid security and unlock additional value for consumers and electricity market participants.

Experts have warned Australia’s ageing energy grid could struggle if future EV charging is unco-ordinated, with additional generation and network investment likely to be required, increasing total electricity system costs.

 

[Smurf1976]

The biggest problem Australia has had, is the ranting and chanting has been by those with a political, or financial agenda, it had nothing to do with the technical and financial realities of E.V uptake.

That's the biggest problem with the entire energy debate not just EV's.

Most of the noise is coming from those whose agenda isn't about anything technical or environmental but is instead driven by some combination of political ideology, practical politics (getting re-elected) or making money.

Now there's a place for those things but they need to be kept some distance back from actual technical, scientific etc things if there's to be success. Any good manager knows when to keep out of the discussion and leave those under them to get on with it.

 

[Smurf1976]

On the subject of gas prices and noting the huge spike internationally, just an observation but it's starting to come through into the Australian domestic market now.

Prices have been circa $8 / GJ but now up to $10 - $11. Still well short of LNG spot prices internationally but it's starting to move, the train seems to have left the station.

I'm no commodity price forecaster so it's just an observation of actual pricing.

 

[mullokintyre]

Fresh from his rebuff from Australia's "non" to the diesel electric subs, the French President has outlined his nuclear credentials by announcing plans to build new Nuclear reactors
From Reuters

PARIS, Nov 9 (Reuters) - France will build new nuclear reactors to help the country lessen its dependence on foreign countries for its energy supplies, meet global warming targets and keep prices under control, President Emmanuel Macron said on Tuesday.

With concerns over purchasing power topping opinion polls five months before the presidential election, at a time of soaring energy prices, Macron said the decision to go for new reactors was essential to keep prices "reasonable."


"We are going, for the first time in decades, to relaunch the construction of nuclear reactors in our country and continue to develop renewable energies," Macron said in a televised address to the nation.

This was meant "to guarantee France's energy independence, to guarantee our country's electricity supply and achieve our objectives, in particular carbon neutrality in 2050," he said.


As Europe grapples with steep increases in energy prices, France is taking a different path from neighbours like Germany.

Germany responded to the 2011 Fukushima nuclear disaster in Japan by accelerating its national exit scheme for reactors.


Macron gave no details, but his government is expected to announce the construction of up to six new pressurised-water reactors within the coming weeks.

These are fairly long term ambitions, and the danger with long term ambitions or plans or execution thereof , is that events can overtake them over time.
Perhaps one of the reactors may make its way into an OZ sub??
Mick

 

[Smurf1976]

Perhaps one of the reactors may make its way into an OZ sub??

There's an order of magnitude scale difference there. A sub or even an aircraft carrier are far smaller than anything normally built for a nuclear power station (well, apart from early prototypes etc).

 

[SirRumpole]

Fresh from his rebuff from Australia's "non" to the diesel electric subs, the French President has outlined his nuclear credentials by announcing plans to build new Nuclear reactors
From Reuters

These are fairly long term ambitions, and the danger with long term ambitions or plans or execution thereof , is that events can overtake them over time.
Perhaps one of the reactors may make its way into an OZ sub??
Mick

I wonder where he will get the uranium from

 

[mullokintyre]

I wonder where he will get the uranium from

Bunnings.

 

[Smurf1976]

There's been quite a bit of concern about the possibility of the Yallourn coal mine (Vic) flooding which, if it happened, would put the Yallourn power station out of operation.

Well there's heavy rain forecast and Yallourn has indeed run into trouble.

Not with a flood though - the coal conveyor caught fire earlier today.

The power station is still operating using coal in the bunkers and there's no immediate threat of the lights going out. Still, can't win it seems, if it's not a flood then it's a fire.

 

[sptrawler]

There's been quite a bit of concern about the possibility of the Yallourn coal mine (Vic) flooding which, if it happened, would put the Yallourn power station out of operation.

Well there's heavy rain forecast and Yallourn has indeed run into trouble.

Not with a flood though - the coal conveyor caught fire earlier today.

The power station is still operating using coal in the bunkers and there's no immediate threat of the lights going out. Still, can't win it seems, if it's not a flood then it's a fire.

On the subject of power stations with a coal supply crisis, Bluewaters in W.A , has problems of its own.

Embattled coal mine suffers blow as corporate cop presses charges

Australia's corporate cop lays criminal charges against an Indian-owned Australian coal mine already facing a revolt from workers and a legal fight with its biggest customer.

www.abc.net.au

 

[mullokintyre]

From The OZ

The Singaporean owner of the Basslink cable connecting Victoria and Tasmania has put the business under rather than pay the $105.3m the state and Hydro Tasmania claim to be owed over the 2015 failure of the power and internet connection with the mainland.
Basslink is the only physical connector for power and internet services to Tasmania and, in addition to smoothing Tasmania’s own power grid, plays a role in stabilising the National Energy Market when power demand fluctuates in the summer months.

The cable’s owner, Singaporean-listed Keppel Infrastructure Trust (KIT), called in voluntary administrators on Friday after APA Group walked away from a potential acquisition of the undersea cable, with Basslink’s lenders appointing KPMG as receivers in the wake of the decision.
While the decision throws open the future of the ownership of the interconnector, Basslink chief executive Malcolm Eccles said there would be no disruption to power supplies to Tasmania.

“The Basslink Interconnector continues to operate efficiently and reliably, connecting Tasmania to the national electricity market. We continue to serve the communities of Tasmania and Victoria, providing a reliable and sustainable source of energy.”

KPMG’s Peter Goddard said in a statement that Basslink’s business “will continue to operate as usual and there will be no disruption to the operations of the interconnector or communications as a result of this appointment.”

According to an October disclosure to the Singapore exchange, KIT’s Australian subsidiaries owe its banking syndicate $625.8m, and a standstill agreement of its repayment expired in late October.

In a statement to the Singaporean exchange KIT – which booked earnings of $S295.3m ($299m) in the first nine months of the year – said its decision had also been triggered by letters of demand from state-owned Hydro Tasmania over about $58.6m the power provider says it is owed over the 2015 failure of the cable – a figure which Basslink disputes on the “basis and quantum”.

Basslink was also ordered to pay $46.7m to the Tasmanian government in December 2020 after arbitration over the line’s five-month outage, which caused major power supply issues in Tasmania as the state government was forced to ship in diesel generators to make up the power supply slack, and widespread outrage as internet services degraded to businesses and households.

Not surprisingly, the Tas govt won't end up with much as they rank behind the lending banks in the list of creditors.
Also highlights the risks of having a large supply dependant on one link.
Mick