The future of energy generation and storage

Just thought I'd mention a project I'm evaluating at the moment. This is a purely personal one, not work related, and involves building a solar-electric space heater.

My intent is to get this up and running and put it into actual use at home, located in the second living area off the kitchen which is semi-open plan to the lounge and dining also.

Thus far I've got as far as a desktop evaluation of the economics (it stacks up well enough to warrant proceeding further with) and have compiled estimated daily heat production data going back 3 years. Next step is to analyze that data in further detail and assuming it's all good then go about sourcing components for the system.

Initial estimates is that I can get everything required and get it up and running for not more than $1000 (valuing my own labour as free) and that the system will produce about 1.7 MWh of useful heat per annum (potential gross output is considerably greater but this figure is for useful heat delivered when the sun isn't shining - it's a storage based system).

The system will draw zero power from the grid to produce heat, it will be 100% solar, and will only use grid power to operate the heat release mechanism with grid power consumption being equivalent to less than 1% of the heat produced.

This is a long term project with a target commissioning date of 1 March 2019. Reason for that is purely economic (presently receiving 28.283c FIT until 31 December 2018 so no point doing it earlier).

I'm not inventing anything here, just combining proven off the shelf concepts and commercially available products into a working solar heating system. Will post some more at some time when I've got further with it.

Smurf1976 said:

Just thought I'd mention a project I'm evaluating at the moment. This is a purely personal one, not work related, and involves building a solar-electric space heater.

My intent is to get this up and running and put it into actual use at home, located in the second living area off the kitchen which is semi-open plan to the lounge and dining also.

Thus far I've got as far as a desktop evaluation of the economics (it stacks up well enough to warrant proceeding further with) and have compiled estimated daily heat production data going back 3 years. Next step is to analyze that data in further detail and assuming it's all good then go about sourcing components for the system.

Initial estimates is that I can get everything required and get it up and running for not more than $1000 (valuing my own labour as free) and that the system will produce about 1.7 MWh of useful heat per annum (potential gross output is considerably greater but this figure is for useful heat delivered when the sun isn't shining - it's a storage based system).

The system will draw zero power from the grid to produce heat, it will be 100% solar, and will only use grid power to operate the heat release mechanism with grid power consumption being equivalent to less than 1% of the heat produced.

This is a long term project with a target commissioning date of 1 March 2019. Reason for that is purely economic (presently receiving 28.283c FIT until 31 December 2018 so no point doing it earlier).

I'm not inventing anything here, just combining proven off the shelf concepts and commercially available products into a working solar heating system. Will post some more at some time when I've got further with it.

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Smurf,
I assume you are aware and probably a suscriber to Renew?
Just in case you are not, you might find interesting articles around that subject

Well smurph, it sounds as though t.o.d pricing is coming to W.A.
Also a higher supply charge to seems to go with the trail.

https://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/wa/a/32487480/will-this-trial-mean-you-pay-more-for-power/#page1

A potentially controversial aspect of the trial will result in households paying more to be connected to the grid to reflect the big cost of the power plants, poles and wires needed to supply electricity.

qldfrog said:

Smurf,
I assume you are aware and probably a suscriber to Renew?
Just in case you are not, you might find interesting articles around that subject

Click to expand...

Not a subscriber but well aware of it.

sptrawler said:

Well smurph, it sounds as though t.o.d pricing is coming to W.A.
Also a higher supply charge to seems to go with the trail.

https://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/wa/a/32487480/will-this-trial-mean-you-pay-more-for-power/#page1

A potentially controversial aspect of the trial will result in households paying more to be connected to the grid to reflect the big cost of the power plants, poles and wires needed to supply electricity.

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Wow, smurph, that didn't take long, the link looks as though it has been taken down.lol

Wish I'd copied and pasted, the whole article.lol

sptrawler said:

the link looks as though it has been taken down.

Click to expand...

They probably couldn't afford the cost of power to keep it up....

Australia's solar power production to triple with 12 new plants to be built


http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-09-...-triple-with-12-new-plants-beingbuilt/7826302

2016 Hydro Tasmania power station tours.

Gordon power station (SW Tas) – 8th October

John Butters power station (near Queenstown) – 15th October

Trevallyn power station (Launceston urban area) – 22nd October

All these are real working power stations.

All tours are free.

Yes you do go right inside and up close to everything, it's not simply a look from a viewing area etc. In the case of Gordon that means you're literally going underground.

Cameras and phones are fine - take as many photos as you like.

Clothing – need to wear long sleeves, long trousers and enclosed footwear (no need for steel caps etc, just normal enclosed shoes so no thongs etc). Hydro will supply ear plugs, helmets and vests.

What you can't bring – no bags, liquids of any kind or food allowed inside any power station.

Booking is required for Gordon and Trevallyn. No bookings needed for John Butters – just turn up.

Who – no problem bringing the kids. Fitness required – if you can walk up and down stairs then you'll be fine.

Anyone with medical devices, pacemakers etc, should not go at least without consulting their doctor first since strong fields inside may interfere with the operation of such devices.

As these are real working power stations and using stairs is required there is unfortunately no disabled access for those unable to use stairs.

More info and link for bookings where required is here: http://www.hydro.com.au/community/power-station-tours

A different form of energy conversion, very interesting.

Would like to know the end cost per litre though.


Facility to convert non-recyclable plastic to fuel planned for Canberra

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-09-12/plastic-to-fuel-facility-planned-in-canberra/7835234

Creative thinking.

Using old abandoned gold mines and two huge holes in the ground to create a cheap renewable energy project. Very clever.

Energy storage: how an abandoned goldmine will be converted into a world first

Australia has no plan for managing disused mines but a company has a novel solution for producing renewable energy

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https://www.theguardian.com/sustain...goldmine-will-be-converted-into-a-world-first

SirRumpole said:

A different form of energy conversion, very interesting.

Would like to know the end cost per litre though.


Facility to convert non-recyclable plastic to fuel planned for Canberra

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-09-12/plastic-to-fuel-facility-planned-in-canberra/7835234

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Very clever. One of the bottom lines is the cost of the diesel that is produced. Bit it would also be interesting to see how much "rubbish" plastic can be taken out the waste stream and recycled.

basilio said:

Very clever. One of the bottom lines is the cost of the diesel that is produced. Bit it would also be interesting to see how much "rubbish" plastic can be taken out the waste stream and recycled.

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cost of diesel produced should include the waste management avoided and probably a premium for the "crap removed from earth"
Good idea
a civilised technical version of http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/afp/2016/09/syria-conflict-aleppo-fuel.html

SirRumpole said:

Australia's solar power production to triple with 12 new plants to be built


http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-09-...-triple-with-12-new-plants-beingbuilt/7826302

Click to expand...

So much for renewable energy......No problem so long as the Sun shines and the wind blows.

One could say all the other states in Australia would not be envious of what is happening in South Australia.

South Australia's power is inefficient and costly to the consumers.

I trust the other states have learnt their lesson from the mistakes made in South Australia for going overboard with renewable energy......South Australia has heaps of uranium and should be the first state to go nuclear.


http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opi...n/news-story/d97137b0501807a52a96acd2d4db1734


This winter South Australia got an electricity shock. On the evening of July 7, the wind wasn’t blowing, the sun wasn’t shining, and the interconnector that supplies power from Victoria was down. Gas set the wholesale price, and gas is expensive, especially during a cold winter. At 7.30pm wholesale spot prices soared to $9000 per megawatt hour. For the month they averaged $230 a megawatt hour, when they were closer to $65 in the rest of the country.

The prices alarmed the state government and outraged big industrial consumers, who buy power on the wholesale market. Commentators hunted for a culprit: wind power, gas generators, the market itself. Everyone demanded that something be done.

Yet, as shown by Grattan Institute’s latest report, Keeping the lights on: lessons from South Australia’s power shock, the market worked. Prices soared then fell back, power was delivered, the lights stayed on. Yet South Australia’s power shock exposed a looming problem in the electricity system — not high prices or the threat of blackouts, but a glimpse of what can happen when climate change policies and the demands of the energy market conflict.

The problem in SA was simple economics at work.

Loss of most interconnection to other states combined with lack of wind generation gave the gas-fired generators the opportunity to make a huge profit and so that's what they did.

If someone doesn't like that outcome then moving from a market based system to regulation or public ownership would be the obvious answers. So long as there's a competitive market in an industry where every player is at times guaranteed to sell their product there will be price spikes to extreme levels.

Same with anything really. If you're guaranteed to sell your product then you can put the price up and most will do so. And the nature of power generation is such that, with present technologies, there's always going to be times when such certainty of finding a buyer exists such that the only real alternatives involve something other than a free market approach.

Smurf1976 said:

The problem in SA was simple economics at work.

Loss of most interconnection to other states combined with lack of wind generation gave the gas-fired generators the opportunity to make a huge profit and so that's what they did.

If someone doesn't like that outcome then moving from a market based system to regulation or public ownership would be the obvious answers. So long as there's a competitive market in an industry where every player is at times guaranteed to sell their product there will be price spikes to extreme levels.

Same with anything really. If you're guaranteed to sell your product then you can put the price up and most will do so. And the nature of power generation is such that, with present technologies, there's always going to be times when such certainty of finding a buyer exists such that the only real alternatives involve something other than a free market approach.

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Essential services like power and water should be publicly owned. End of story.

sptrawler said:

Don'y worry about lack of foresight, in battery technology, it is the 'holy grail' there is billions of dollars going into battery research.
It is one area, the Government doesn't need to spend money, the private sector want to crack this one.
Whomever comes up with the viable battery, will be worth trillions.

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That's a post from page 5 of this thread, and guess what the CSIRO is coming to the fore, go Aussie.

From Wiki. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UltraBattery

UltraBattery in hybrid electric vehicles[edit]
UltraBattery has several advantages over the existing nickel-metal hydride (Ni-MH) batteries currently used in hybrid electric vehicles. They are approximately 70 per cent less expensive, with comparable performance in terms of fuel consumption and faster charge and discharge rates than Ni-MH batteries.[13]

When used in hybrid electric vehicles, the UltraBattery’s ultracapacitor acts as a buffer during high-rate discharging and charging, enabling it to provide and absorb charge rapidly during vehicle acceleration and braking.[13]

Testing of the Ultrabattery’s performance in hybrid electric vehicles by Advanced Lead Acid Battery Consortium achieved more than 100,000 miles on a single battery pack without significant degradation.[2] Laboratory results of UltraBattery prototypes show that their capacity, power, available energy, cold cranking and self-discharge meets, or exceeds, all performance targets set for minimum and maximum power-assist hybrid electric vehicles.

UltraBattery in Microgrids[edit]
UltraBattery can be used to smooth and shift (i.e. store for later use) renewable energy sources on microgrids to improve predictable power availability. UltraBattery can also be used in standalone microgrid systems, renewables power systems and hybrid microgrids. Standalone microgrid systems combine diesel or other fossil fuels with UltraBattery storage to improve the efficiency of fossil-fuel energy generation. Including energy storage in the system reduces the size of the gen-set (i.e. array of generators) because the batteries can handle peaks in the load. UltraBattery also reduces the fuel consumption of the gen-set, because the generators can run at their highest efficiency, regardless of variations in the load on the system.

Renewables power systems combine UltraBattery technology with the renewable generation source to deliver local power. They can use either photovoltaic, wind or solar thermal energy, and commonly incorporate a back-up diesel generator. Hybrid microgrids integrate renewable generation sources with UltraBattery energy storage and fossil-fuel gen-sets to maximize the efficiency of base-load generation. This can greatly reduce the cost of energy compared with diesel-only powered microgrids. They also substantially decrease greenhouse gas emissions. An example of this type of microgrid is the King Island Renewable Energy Integration Project (KIREIP),[14] being undertaken by Hydro Tasmania. This megawatt-scale renewable energy project aims to reduce both the cost of delivering power to the island and carbon pollution.[12]

sptrawler said:

That's a post from page 5 of this thread, and guess what the CSIRO is coming to the fore, go Aussie.

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Yes great news

Store year's worth of power in Hydro Tasmania dams to prevent another energy crisis, industry says
By Richard Baines


Tasmania's biggest power users want 12 months' worth of power stored in Hydro dams, after an unprecedented crisis earlier this year.

In a highly critical submission to the state's Energy Security Taskforce, the Minerals and Energy Council suggested increased power storage was the key to energy security going forward.

The taskforce was set up after record-low levels at power-generating dams combined with a broken undersea Basslink power cable to plunge Tasmania into an unprecedented energy crisis earlier this year.

The Minerals and Energy Council, which represents big industrial power users, wants 12 months' worth of storage in future.

"Build storages such that the 'normal' lower limit [prior to autumn/winter rains] still has a minimum 12-month reserve about the lower practical limit," the submission said.

"Limit 'power export' via Basslink in order to build storages to an effectively safe minimum ”” in line with targets and milestones."

In a statement, Hydro Tasmania's chief executive Steve Davy said the government business was working on storage while the taskforce considered its 31 stakeholder submissions.

"While the taskforce considers that new evidence, Hydro Tasmania is applying additional conservatism to storage management," he said.

"We're also taking interim steps to further enhance our climate modelling and planning assumptions."

Mr Davy said "overreacting" to the energy crisis "could be very expensive for Tasmanians".

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More at:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-09-...-store-power-to-prevent-energy-crisis/7884744

Smurf1976 said:

The problem in SA was simple economics at work.

Loss of most interconnection to other states combined with lack of wind generation gave the gas-fired generators the opportunity to make a huge profit and so that's what they did.

If someone doesn't like that outcome then moving from a market based system to regulation or public ownership would be the obvious answers. So long as there's a competitive market in an industry where every player is at times guaranteed to sell their product there will be price spikes to extreme levels.

Same with anything really. If you're guaranteed to sell your product then you can put the price up and most will do so. And the nature of power generation is such that, with present technologies, there's always going to be times when such certainty of finding a buyer exists such that the only real alternatives involve something other than a free market approach.

Click to expand...

Looks like S.A power problems, will be front and centre, soon.
Can't wait to see the outcome of this fiasco.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-09-28/sa-weather-south-australia-without-power-as-storm-hits/7885930

If S.A is going to be cut off completely everytime there is a large storm, it will become very annoying.IMO

Obviously too much wind for the wind farms. I wonder why the gas plant can't be in service, unless there is a distribution issue.

sptrawler said:

Looks like S.A power problems, will be front and centre, soon.
Can't wait to see the outcome of this fiasco.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-09-28/sa-weather-south-australia-without-power-as-storm-hits/7885930

If S.A is going to be cut off completely everytime there is a large storm, it will become very annoying.IMO

Obviously too much wind for the wind farms. I wonder why the gas plant can't be in service, unless there is a distribution issue.

Click to expand...

I wonder if the gas plant can "black start", smurph? That would be a real Faux Pas, if it can't.lol