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The future of energy generation and storage

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sptrawler said:
Like I said once before, I tend to think it will become a requirement of the building codes, eventually.
Similar to the insulation energy efficiency class requirement now, all builders will have to include solar and batteries, in the price of new build houses.
It still leaves a huge problem in the distribution system, controlling volts, new pole top transformers with auto tap changes will end up being required IMO.
But with regard the 'bigger picture', household solar and batteries is a pimple on an elephants arse, when taken in context to the size of the problem.

What did Finkle say, we need about 200GW of renewables, when you consider smurph said a while back the total load on the Eastern States grid was 30 GW, that tells you how much is going to be required.
200GW is a mind boggling amount of solar and wind generation.
With gas, steam driven generation you only need enough to run the system, with a bit extra for standby, because you just fire it up when you want it, 100% is ready to go at the turn of a switch when it is driven by fossil fuel.
With renewables, you have to have enough to operate the system, then extra to allow for unreliable generation due to weather/ time of day or night, then more to be able to make some form of stored energy.
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Well I tend to think silly Billy is going to demand solar is fitted to all new builds, possibly batteries and heat pumps also. I suppose he will make them tax deductable. lol

https://thewest.com.au/business/markets/renewable-targets-will-hurt-cows-minister-ng-s-1907184

From the article:
Labor has flagged sector-specific emissions reduction targets within their policy, such as within agriculture and housing
 
Some excitement at Loy Yang A, the largest power station in Victoria, over the past 24 hours.

Capacity of the plant is 2210 MW.

At the low point, 11:40 this morning Vic time, 2 (of 4) machines, Units 1 & 2, were running producing a total of 390 MW. I don't know the exact reason for what was going on but it wasn't due to lack of demand for power that's for sure.

That follows attempts on Tuesday morning to return Unit 3 to operation which didn't go to plan. Online then tripped twice and still off now.

It's going a bit better as of now, still only running units 1 & 2 but they're at full output, current situation in Vic as follows:

Load in Vic = 4567 MW

Loy Yang A = 1090 MW (coal) (AGL)
Loy Yang B = 1065 MW (coal) (Alinta)
Yallourn = 755 MW (coal) (Energy Australia)

From South Australia = 325 MW
From NSW = 322 MW
From Tasmania = 299 MW

Wind (various sites) = 297 MW

Mortlake power station = 263 MW (gas) (Origin Energy)

Dartmouth = 158 MW (hydro) (AGL)
Hume = 36 MW (hydro) (Meridian Energy)

Supply doesn't exactly match load due to transmission losses and minor differences in the timing of data. :2twocents
 
I guess the coal generators are patching, rather than comprehensive rebuilds of boilers, it would obviously be throwing good money after bad.
IMO things will come to a head sooner, rather than later.
I guess the other thing supporting my belief is, they are blowing up serviceable coal power stations, why would you invest major capital into long term repairs?
 
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Bill Shorten... after blocking the NEG is now going to adapt it.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-11-21/labor-energy-policy-ahead-of-election/10519018

And just for a bit of irony - here's a flip flop circuit with a green button :D

1200px-Transistor_Bistable_interactive_animated-en.svg.png
 
PZ99 said:
I'm more interested in why the ALP have suddenly changed their mind on it
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A relevant factor is that the ALP has extremely good access to all the right people in regard to this stuff. So they can get every perspective from senior management to engineering through to day to day practical operations stuff.

The Liberals in particular have in practice cut themselves off from that sort of thing long ago.
 
Smurf1976 said:
A relevant factor is that the ALP has extremely good access to all the right people in regard to this stuff. So they can get every perspective from senior management to engineering through to day to day practical operations stuff.

The Liberals in particular have in practice cut themselves off from that sort of thing long ago.
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Very true. I just hope they can actually roll this one out and do it competently.
After 10 years, 6 Prime ministers and 6½ policy changes it's time to get something done.

It's been a very embarrassing decade and a very expensive one all for the sake of nothing.
 
Smurf1976 said:
The Liberals in particular have in practice cut themselves off from that sort of thing long ago.
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I'd have to say that the much reviled Turnbull did actually avail himself of scientific and engineering opinions such as the Finkel report and the engineering basis for Snowy Hydro 2.0. It was the far Right idealogues of his party that shut themselves off and it looks like they are the ones who will lose the Libs the next election.

Good thing too.
 
PZ99 said:
After 10 years, 6 Prime ministers and 6½ policy changes it's time to get something done.
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Prior to all this I used to put the great Tasmanian dams debate of the early-1980's into context by explaining that it extended over a period of 3 years and 9 months, wrecked 2 state Premiers and gave the state it's first ever majority Liberal government.

Many didn't believe it could possibly have been so drastic and so the newspaper headlines were on hand to back up the claim that it indeed was true.

I never thought I'd live to see the question of how to generate electricity become such a dominant issue at a federal level that's for sure and certainly not to the point where the duration and political fallout now makes the dams debate seem rather trivial in comparison.

Perhaps the only real difference is that with this national debate there's not the same level of personal engagement and belief in relation to any one option. It's no secret that the dams debate in Tas did lead to a few divorces and other family splits at the time due to strongly held opposing views but there doesn't seem to be the same degree of deep seated commitment toward one option or the other this time around at a federal level. Perhaps if there was it would have been sorted by now.

I do wonder how it will all be viewed in the future though?
 
PZ99 said:
I'm more interested in why the ALP have suddenly changed their mind on it.
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Its a decently green policy that the LIB govt has already passed at party room level twice, its genius to adopt the LIB policy and run with it, the greens wont like it but they never do like anything the main stream party's adopt..
 
So_Cynical said:
Its a decently green policy that the LIB govt has already passed at party room level twice, its genius to adopt the LIB policy and run with it, the greens wont like it but they never do like anything the main stream party's adopt..
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It certainly wedges the Libs, unless they can show why it was flawed and not adopted.
The battery idea, will be another brain fart idea, that will come back to bite Labor. IMO
Would you like pink batts with that?;)
 
SirRumpole said:
Wasn't it you who said solar panels and batteries should be compulsory ?
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Absolutely and the system is in place to facilitate it, to add a new level of complexity to the funding system is dumb and open to new scams. IMO
Obviously you can only speculate, but from what I read it is only open to low income earners, which is fine, however.
Most systems low income earners would have installed, would not have a hybrid inverter, that can control domestic demand/battery charging and export, so they will require a new inverter or control unit. Which will add $2,000 to $4,000 to the battery install.

Secondly, low income families according to Labor are struggling, so giving them a deposit on something they can't afford now, is just doing what the banks are in the $hit for.

Thirdly, as everyone on here keeps telling me, the cost of batteries is falling exponentially, so why would you stitch up the poor now. It sounds more like a silly billy santa package to me.

That is just a few off the top of my head, like I said there is a well tested rebate system, that is making solar system installs cheap already.
Why not just tweak that, to get the desired outcome, obviously most of the cowboy's have been weeded out already.
Start a new funding system, starts new battery install industry, fly by night get rich quick start ups. But maybe that's the game?
 

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