The future of energy generation and storage

[luutzu]

So do you choose the wind turbines or the vehicles?

Depends on what monopoly is get to run

 

[SirRumpole]

Manufacturing is a global business.

Except for Australia, we just import.

 

[luutzu]

Did you know even Boeing makes its wings on the other side of the world to where they assemble their planes.

Boeing has manufacturing plants all over the world making different parts and sections of their planes and transports sections of the planes to their assembly plant to be put together.

Manufacturing is a global business.

Here is their "Dreamlifter" aircraft that transports plane sections from around the world to the assembly plant.

Some of the spreads is necessary to save money; some to scare labours and unions; most of it is to grab politicians by the balls.

Did I hear that the honourable so and so did not vote to approve a national defence budget to fund our largess? Why would they do such a thing if it'll mean we get to shut down a factory or two in their electorate?

Are the workers in this factory asking for a raise, better working condition? Why would they do that if we got spare capacity just south of the borer?

Grand strategy my friend. It's priceless.

 

[Value Collector]

Depends on what monopoly is get to run

Even if it had the government had the monopoly on electricity, that doesn't automatically mean it would be best to invest in manufacturing wind turbines, because wind turbines might be a smaller cost compared to the number of vehicles the government buys.

 

[luutzu]

Except for Australia, we just import.

But we export brain power and managerial know-how... oh wait, we also import most of those too.

You'd be surprised at how many senior positions are occupied by foreigners at major gov't projects.

 

[Value Collector]

Except for Australia, we just import.

As I said before, if you feel you can compete, start a manufacturing business and try and win some Boeing contracts. (or you can just buy some Boeing shares) and enjoy the dividends, and spend the dividends in Australia.

Watch this video at the 9.45 mark, you will see even "British made" Jet engines are made from parts sourced all over the world, and then the jet engines are sent to boeings plant in Seattle USA, to be fitted onto a plane.

 

[Value Collector]

But we export brain power and managerial know-how...

That is true, Because the average Aussie is either to gutless or to short term to invest capital into businesses they see as risky, They are all to busy wanting to invest in property or not save at all.

And those that do have the mind set and patient capital to invest, are put off by the unions, and high costs.

 

[luutzu]

Watch a bit of this from the 9.45 mark.

You will see even the British company, that assembles the Jet engines


Even if it had the government had the monopoly on electricity, that doesn't automatically mean it would be best to invest in manufacturing wind turbines, because wind turbines might be a smaller cost compared to the number of vehicles the government buys.

Then maybe we ought to kick-start an OZ-mobile industry, again.

Aren't we concerned about our gov't officials riding in foreign made vehicles? Bugs, spying, "accidents" once those self driving tech gets use.

 

[SirRumpole]

As I said before, if you feel you can compete, start a manufacturing business and try and win some Boeing contracts. (or you can just buy some Boeing shares) and enjoy the dividends, and spend the dividends in Australia.

Boeing and most other US aircraft manufacturers are heavily dependent on government military orders, it's not as if they are a startup company competing on their merits against global competition.

In fact most manufacturers around the world have been or are supported to a certain extent by their governments, it's just that us Aussies especially the Tories think that it's Socialism, and so we just lose the jobs elsewhere.

 

[Value Collector]

Thanks to Warren, I am now a part owner of this company.

Precision cast parts is just one of the many suppliers that supplies parts to Boeing and airbus, and even they have over 160 factories in 13 countries and they only supply certain parts.

 

[Value Collector]

Boeing and most other US aircraft manufacturers are heavily dependent on government military orders, it's not as if they are a startup company competing on their merits against global competition.

So what, My point is that even they rely on parts being made all over the world, from 1000's of different factories.

Nothing except the simplest and crude products have centralised and integrated manufacturing these days.

Whether you are building a wind turbine or a jet engine you are going to need many parts made all over the world.

Nothing is stopping an Australian business from entering any of these markets and competing for contracts.

But check out that precision cast parts video I linked above, you will see the competition is pretty stiff.

 

[Tisme]

So what, My point is that even they rely on parts being made all over the world, from 1000's of different factories.

Nothing except the simplest and crude products have centralised and integrated manufacturing these days.

Whether you are building a wind turbine or a jet engine you are going to need many parts made all over the world.

Nothing is stopping an Australian business from entering any of these markets and competing for contracts.

But check out that precision cast parts video I linked above, you will see the competition is pretty stiff.

Be interesting to see if tariffs change that model.

 

[Value Collector]

If you listen at the 1 minute mark, This precision cast parts rep does actually mention Australia as being part of their supply chain.

 

[Value Collector]

Then maybe we ought to kick-start an OZ-mobile industry, again.

I might just stick to my holding of precision cast parts, Hahaha.

I am happy to just be a cog in a global machine, I am not sure trying to separate ourselves and be our own integrated machine is the key to prosperity, for investors or customers.

I think we are better off finding ways we can contribute our labour and capital resources into the wider global machine, than we are to try and force the labour and capital into areas that we don't have an advantage in.

 

[SirRumpole]

than we are to try and force the labour and capital into areas that we don't have an advantage in.

"Advantages" don't just happen, at least in a country of our size. They need to be created and that includes keeping competition out until the home grown industries are strong enough to compete.

That's how all the world's big manufacturers started.

 

[luutzu]

I might just stick to my holding of precision cast parts, Hahaha.

I am happy to just be a cog in a global machine, I am not sure trying to separate ourselves and be our own integrated machine is the key to prosperity, for investors or customers.

I think we are better off finding ways we can contribute our labour and capital resources into the wider global machine, than we are to try and force the labour and capital into areas that we don't have an advantage in.

Yea, but that doesn't necessarily mean we contribute mainly with the ores and minerals. Those will run out one day.

There's quite a few ingenius OZ invention and tech. Such as that wifi/bluetooth patent from the CSIRO. There's a few biotech that I've heard of. Just that we as a country tend not to develop and specialise on them... leaving the few to stand all by themselves. Then soon enough they either die, gets taken over or move offshore to gain more talent, bigger market, additional scale etc.

 

[fiftyeight]

We cannot dig holes forever, at some point the gov is going to have to pick up the bill (maybe a mining tax could of funded these future bills).

Grants, tax breaks, gov projects using local parts and labour, in industries like manufacturing, tech, management or an industry yet to be invented. At some stage it will cost $$$

Why do I get the feeling that, what and who to fund will be analogous to the The future of energy generation and storage, decision paralysis caused by political BS and point scoring

 

[Smurf1976]

I’m strongly in favour of having productive industry in Australia but I’m also pragmatic - at no point did we make literally every component of any large scale power generating system in Australia.

Of more immediate concern to me is the ability to carry out maintenance and actually doing so.

Within the power generation industry that ranges from in-house heavy workshop and manufacturing capability through to pretty much zero.

Some are very capable technically but others are really just operators in practice, reliant on external expertise.

Some companies cooperate with rivals and have no problem contracting them to undertake physical work on their equipment. Others would rather have their plant fall apart than hand the maintenance work to a rival generating business.

That’s a consequence of splitting up the industry. Power stations within sight of each other but those working for x aren’t even allowed on site at y who send great big pieces of equipment overseas to be fixed. Another thing the economic and political types didn’t understand when they split it all up.

I do think we should at least have the ability to carry out major maintenance work in Australia. There are gaps at present certainly.

 

[bellenuit]

"Advantages" don't just happen, at least in a country of our size. They need to be created and that includes keeping competition out until the home grown industries are strong enough to compete.

That's how all the world's big manufacturers started.

Aren't you the one that was saying a few months back that companies should only be allowed carried forward losses for a couple of years instead of until they are eliminated by profits. Your attitude seemed to be that if a company couldn't get to profitability within a few years they should go out of business, even though things like carried forward losses are just simply a means of not taxing companies on profits that haven't yet exceeded their accumulated losses.

 

[Tisme]

"Advantages" don't just happen, at least in a country of our size. They need to be created and that includes keeping competition out until the home grown industries are strong enough to compete.

That's how all the world's big manufacturers started.

It was the chairman of the Bank of Japan in the early 50s who is quoted as saying (paraphrasing) that international division of labour made it meaningless to develop a local car industry. So the local makers made pommy and french cars under licence until they learned how do it themselves.