The Five Commandments of Aussie Stock Forums

Smurf1976 said:

A bit off topic but of some relevance to recent comments in this thread:

https://www.news.com.au/technology/...t/news-story/afb28be816890a6b9c30d67ca8a06859

To be clear - this Smurf most certainly isn't scared of ideas and so far as I'm aware nobody I'm friends with in the offline world is either but it seems to be becoming a thing.

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The words of Evelyn Hall are getting lost in the PC tide of outrage and "how dare you say that" snowflakes.

Very disturbing.

SirRumpole said:

The words of Evelyn Hall are getting lost in the PC tide of outrage and "how dare you say that" snowflakes.

Very disturbing.

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How dare you say that!

Open hate, couched in free speech.

Oh how I love the world. I will follow the 5 commandments of the site and well ... ignore.

Since one of the people above was the one that trolled me 30 times, and another had such disgusting anti Islam tropes post NZ, And they are still disgusting me, am I being NON PC in expressing that ? That you still make me sick ?

For my troubles and another who expressed his distaste in this non PC world for expressing dismay and disgust ... he left the site. Trolled on every topic he chose to post upon by the innocent and free speech crowd. A coward is always a coward and the internet is perfect for them.

Bravo at your posts here !!

This from the president of the USA ... wow ... Linking congress person with 9/11 ... because she is muslin ... it makes Katter and Pauline Hanson look tame.



I am so out of touch with the modern world and these values ... THANKFULLY

Joe Blow said:

If General Chat has become the focus of a forum built around another specific area of interest then something has gone terribly wrong. And clearly it has here.

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I've been having some thoughts as to that one.

I'll make some more observations over the next few days to see if I'm on the right track or not with my thinking.

Another post to follow.

Smurf1976 said:

I've been having some thoughts as to that one.
I'll make some more observations over the next few days to see if I'm on the right track or not with my thinking.
Another post to follow.

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So was I, smurf.
I read many of the stock and market related posts - some are really good.
The issue I see is that with the minimum of 10 daily emails I get via subscription, the amount of "other" information that is available is overwhelming.
On my quiet days I also scroll through the ASX daily releases (very very quickly) to see if anything is happening.
And when I get bored I read analyst reports.
So while ASF is a quick and easy catch up on those stocks/commodities etc which are market related, for me it's a chance to see what people are otherwise invested in.
10 or so years ago I did have a good charting platform that I could use to add graphics with commentary, but I don't have one any more.

rederob said:

So was I, smurf.
I read many of the stock and market related posts - some are really good.
The issue I see is that with the minimum of 10 daily emails I get via subscription, the amount of "other" information that is available is overwhelming.

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I'll compile my thoughts and post something in a day or two (since it's 2:30am right now....) but we're not far apart there.

I've read literally every stock post on ASF for the past couple of months until a day or two ago and been taking notes. By that I mean not about whether to invest in those stocks, well that too, but thinking about what's posted, what's not, and so on.

There are some prolific posters to stock threads. You know who you are and I've read the lot.

There is massive knowledge on this forum which could broadly be divided into the three categories of T/A, fundamentals based on financials, and fundamentals as in the "nuts and bolts" of the company or industry.

Further comment to come at a more normal hour.

Smurf1976 said:

Further comment to come at a more normal hour.

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You know, since I found out you could 'Ignore' sections or threads on the forum it is awesome! I have put Chat on Ignore and only wander down there when I have time and then I look out for the posters and subjects of interest to me. In the meantime, I only get stuff that is relevant to the markets on the 'recent posts' section. So much better.

kahuna1 said:

Open hate, couched in free speech.

Oh how I love the world. I will follow the 5 commandments of the site and well ... ignore.

Since one of the people above was the one that trolled me 30 times, and another had such disgusting anti Islam tropes post NZ, And they are still disgusting me, am I being NON PC in expressing that ? That you still make me sick ?

For my troubles and another who expressed his distaste in this non PC world for expressing dismay and disgust ... he left the site. Trolled on every topic he chose to post upon by the innocent and free speech crowd. A coward is always a coward and the internet is perfect for them.

Bravo at your posts here !!

This from the president of the USA ... wow ... Linking congress person with 9/11 ... because she is muslin ... it makes Katter and Pauline Hanson look tame.



I am so out of touch with the modern world and these values ... THANKFULLY

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The forum doesn't deserve your wisdom, intelligence and good Heart Kahuana.

I got warned for disagreeing with and questioning a certain persons motives in denying CC.

Hi Dark Knight ....

welcome back. I struggle with internet 2019.
I wish I had the stamina but alas, lack of logic, dogmas and sheer stupidity almost sent me away forever.

The motives of their denial, is for them their reality.
For some its mental issues. A game of trolling.
For others its stupidity.
For others its lack of ability to even accept they can be wrong.

It it is not that I am right, in fact often wrong.
I want to learn something if possible, correct a mistake if needed.
One set of eyes or one brain is much worse than the joint forces of many brains.

That is why one tries to contribute ... to learn .. to share ideas ... pick up what you have missed, don't know .... can't possibly know .. but someone can point it out.

CC ... well .. it is what it is. Much like politics and religion its relegated to extremes and for most indifference. Sadly things are getting much worse far quicker. On the idiotic extremes, and yes I seem to be one extreme here, science end of things, no amount of logic or science or evidence will stop or even alter the denial side.

I suspect when the earth was believed to be flat would be a good analogy.
In the end, I asked the denial side what of the IPCC recommendations or findings they believed and there was silence. Chemical reactions, NOPE, ... none of it. Temperature change, ice loss, species loss all of it denied.

That sadly is way beyond logical or even human comprehension. I suppose, inside a delusion everything becomes real. Even denial of basic information or observed evidence.

Not calling someone an imbecile when denying science is something I am working on !! When its irrefutable evidence and some nutjob questions even that, is where things lie in some cases.

Sdajii said:

If you're on the left you can say what you want, you can lie, you can source information from wherever you want, you can exaggerate and misrepresent it, and you can do it with impunity. We constantly see this.

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I think this is one of the most disturbing and illogical posts I have ever seen. If your NOT on their side, or on any side they take, your wrong. Some including you and myself took the time, which was wasted and always will be.

This is the world now. If for some, and a growing number, neither reasoning or presentation of facts is to be accepted, They are are, as the sad person believes, and they truly believe that .. if any evidence falls outside their beliefs, it is manipulated or contorted to tell what is a fake narrative in their delusional worlds.

Trump, as we have seen 10,000 times, lies at will. Even if one removed half for being a maybe ... or exaggeration ... its the world we live in. Even when he calls the CEO Tim APPLE ... from Apple instead of Tim Cook ... he DENIES he even said it when there are 10 cameras with it on tape.

If I raise this, I am from the left ? Or right ? Whatever !!

I don't know how Joe or any internet provider or chat rooms deals with any of these issues. Ignore button may work, but their sheer fanatical belief in the illogical and ability to sprout pure rubbish is astounding.

Illhan Omar, New USA House Member speaking about 6 year olds being bullied in a school said ... "they don't care about that" ... in reference to 6 year olds born in 2012, about why Muslim kids are being attacked for 9.11 that occurred in 2001 and NO 6 year old, black white or whatever cares about what occurred in 2001 as to why they are being bullied.... Trump in his wisdom ... quoted the line they DON'T care and 6 year olds don't care ... put it on his twitter and with a plane going into the world Trade center on 9/11 in 2001 and with Illahan Omars picture.

She had just had death threats and did Trumps actions help ? No ... of course not ... she just got more and more !! Did it make the media ? A House representative voted in via LANDSLIDE is being given daily death threats ? NO of course not. NO media in the USA or very little.

Strange world led by, well ... a delusional leader who has no qualities to be admired. NONE. Meanwhile less and less get healthcare in the USA, even insulin is up 500% post 2000 .... Asama ... Ibuterol costs 1000% MORE than if did a few years ago ...

Meanwhile number of companies paying tax HALVED .... tax collected on profits fell from 17.65% to 7.3% as Medical care for the many crashed. Deficit hitting 1 trillion or 5% of GDP in 2019. War via economic means now in the open against 25 nations via tariffs and so on. Threats against 50 out of 200 nations I might add. Open war in some and threats of violence against so so many others.

Economics and stocks and investments cross the line at times between politics and various other issues.
They will and are directly and at times diabolically altered in value by their actions. Banning some product or tariffs on another, or taxes on another, can and do change any valuation overnight at times.

Fun times ... and its not improving.

I've held off on making comment until now but for reasons that will be obvious I'm saying it now and I'll get to the point noting that the following is my view and not necessarily anyone else's.

The owner of this forum has made the point about the need to keep the focus primarily on topic and not on unrelated matters.

Looking through the off topic (General Chat) section well I can see some potential relevance to investment in topics such as cancer research, electric cars and dangerous buildings. Those things aren't company specific but if there's going to be radical change across an entire industry then many companies will be affected.

Next comes travel photos and so on. There's no investment potential but it's not really likely to upset anyone too much so long as it's a limited thing.

And then there's the one that has prompted my comments and that's religion. I just can't see any upside for ASF in having religious discussions but I can certainly see negatives in that apart from being a very long way off the forum's purpose, it's a sure fire way to offend someone once religion comes into it.

Obviously my comment has been prompted by discussion of a rugby player but it's not my intent to say that particular issue should be silenced, indeed doing so would make a mockery of it all given that freedom of expression is the basis of that discussion. I do however feel that any debate about religion isn't really doing this forum any favours especially when it comes to attracting new members.

Dodgy buildings or $100 million machinery failures I can find some investment angle in (competitors, repair contractors, insurers, risk of same thing happening elsewhere etc lots of possibly affected companies there) but I really can't find anything relevant when it comes to arguing about the words in the Bible.

Just my

Smurf1976 said:

And then there's the one that has prompted my comments and that's religion. I just can't see any upside for ASF in having religious discussions but I can certainly see negatives in that apart from being a very long way off the forum's purpose, it's a sure fire way to offend someone once religion comes into it.

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Except it's really about the LAW.
The usual culprits turn it into some ideological playground. However it needs to be approached in terms of "how things work" and what rules apply. The law is a playground for thinking rather than ideology.
If you rely on TA then there are systems you use that give clues as to how patterns develop and the subsequent trend likely to develop. Although the rules at play here are probabilistic, they are nevertheless the platform for your actions. Given the many books and systems available to those using TA there is no right way to do it, rather, some will work better than others or for the way you use information.
The Folau case is really about him trying to show that his religion was a reason for his termination, because his employer has consistently stated it was not. It's a bit like RA use the trend as its decision making platform, while Folau has found a brief shift in momentum against the trend, and prefers to trade that.
Folau is attempting to create a new paradigm. The questions you should be asking are about what would make his ideas work, rather than offering mere opinion/belief/hope.
Forums that do not challenge how we think or what we think are not really worth visiting, unless you simply want a platform for you many opinions. For our own benefit, they should get us to reexamine why we do do things in a particular way when we are presented with evidence it does not work.

The Investment forums allow people to serve their self interests, the general chat forums allow people to serve Society's interests (do good) hopefully.

I made one comment in the Folau thread in question - now it's on my ignore list...

Pump and Dump

I'm a bit guilty, I can't walk away from a fight and I hate bullies.

Smurf1976 said:

but I really can't find anything relevant when it comes to arguing about the words in the Bible.

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The general argument in the Folau thread has not been about the Bible or religion, but about people's rights to express their opinions about any subject they choose without retaliation from their employers.

I think you even summed up the situation pretty well in one of your previous posts.

As for the link with investing, well it's pretty tenuous for sure, but some are prepared to invest in freedom of speech by giving money to Folau to fight his case so maybe there is more to an investment than pure financial gain.

SirRumpole said:

The general argument in the Folau thread has not been about the Bible or religion, but about people's rights to express their opinions about any subject they choose without retaliation from their employers.

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Agreed as such although the specific case involves the quoting of text from the Bible which the employer has deemed unacceptable.

Eg if he'd posted a page from a kids cartoon book or a bus timetable then I doubt they'd have sacked him for doing so. The detail of the content seems to form the basis of their objection and in that case they're taking issue with the content of the Bible.

My real point though is not about religion, Folau or freedom of expression but about this forum.

ASF is a valuable source of information and discussion on many things but I'm conscious of the fact that ultimately it's a privately owned and operated business which needs to be profitable.

If I, or more to the point someone new to the site, looks at the ASF home page and not one recent topic is a specific stock related post, and the dominant discussion is about a rugby player and his highly controversial sacking, then I don't think that's really helping ASF. That's the perspective from which my comment here is coming from.

On a stock market forum I can see definite relevance in discussing unsafe buildings, cancer research and broad industries such as automotive or energy and so on. Those threads aren't specific to any one company but there's definitely information there which may be of use to those with a fundamental approach to investing. There's plenty of builders and property companies, there's plenty in the health sector, there's listed car dealerships, there are listed energy companies and electricity futures are traded on the ASX and so on.

Politics has relevance to a point given it's intertwined with business and the economy.

The Folau case though, well if there's a need to focus ASF more toward its intended purpose then that subject seems like an all pain, no gain sort of thing really. Depending on your perspective it's either about religious content or at least involves it and of all subjects the one most likely to cause upset is debates about religion. It's not going to bring anyone to ASF but it may well turn some away.

My point is about ASF not the Folau case specifically although that's the current example. I've had the thought for a while and the Folau case, and seeing an entire page of topics with not one specific stock post and Folau at top, prompted me to comment. I make that comment as an observation noting that it's not my role to decide what is or isn't acceptable.

Smurf1976 said:

The Folau case though, well if there's a need to focus ASF more toward its intended purpose then that subject seems like an all pain, no gain sort of thing really. Depending on your perspective it's either about religious content or at least involves it and of all subjects the one most likely to cause upset is debates about religion.

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I think you are generally correct as usual. The Folau case on this forum seems to have run it's course now, but I think it just shows that it's difficult sometimes to stop arguing and let a view that you disagree with have the last word.

No more from me on this, unless....

Smurf1976 said:

Depending on your perspective it's either about religious content or at least involves it and of all subjects the one most likely to cause upset is debates about religion.

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I have posted a lot on the Folau matter, and very little is about religion.
Most other posters cannot work that out!
The Folau thread is a really good opportunity to apply critical thinking skills, and appears mostly as an opportunity missed.

The General Chat forum creates serious problems in two ways:

1. It dilutes the focus of this community which is, or should be, a stock market focused community.
2. It creates a toxic, unpleasant atmosphere as a result of the ideological bile spitting and general incivility between (some) forum members when it comes to topics concerning politics and religion.

There is a desperate need for change. I have made several appeals to the community to no noticeable effect which makes me think that diplomacy is not the answer. So now I am seriously considering closing the General Chat forum altogether.

The bottom line is this: ASF is not sustainable as a general chat forum. Unless it can get back on track, and the focus can be restored, it might soon be time to put the old girl out of her misery.