The Fascist future

[Knobby22]

I see my thread on the path some libertarians take to become neo-fascists has been deleted. I suppose that is a sign of fascism at work. 1984.
Anyway thought the following was interesting.

Joseph Stiglitz, winner of the Nobel Memorial Prize in Economic Sciences, is asking everyone, in this fraught moment in history.

Professor Stiglitz argues that the conception of "freedom" pushed by Professor Hayek and other neoliberals, including Milton Friedman, led us down another wrong path.

"They talked of 'free markets', as if imposing rules and regulations results in 'unfree markets'," he writes.

"They relabeled private enterprises — companies owned by private individuals — as 'free enterprises', as if giving them that appellation would bestow a reverence and suggest that they should not be touched and their freedom should not be curtailed even if they exploit people and the planet.

"[And] the Right claims that governments have unnecessarily restricted freedom through taxation, which constrains the budgets of the rich and thereby … reduces their freedom to act.

"Even in this they are only partially correct because the societal benefits of the expenditures financed by these taxes, the investments in infrastructure and technology, for instance, may expand their opportunity sets (their freedom) in more meaningful ways," he writes."It is evident today that free and unfettered markets advocated by Hayek and Friedman and so many on the Right have set us on the road to fascism, to a twenty-first-century version of authoritarianism made all the worse by advances in science and technology, an Orwellian authoritarianism where surveillance is the order of the day and truth has been sacrificed to power."

'Neoliberal capitalism' has contributed to the rise of fascism, says Nobel laureate

The attacks on democracy and freedom "have never been greater in my lifetime," warns Nobel Prize-winning economist Joseph Stiglitz.

www.abc.net.au

 

[Joe Blow]

I see my thread on the path some libertarians take to become neo-fascists has been deleted.

Not deleted.

 

[moXJO]

I see my thread on the path some libertarians take to become neo-fascists has been deleted. I suppose that is a sign of fascism at work. 1984.
Anyway thought the following was interesting.

Joseph Stiglitz, winner of the Nobel Memorial Prize in Economic Sciences, is asking everyone, in this fraught moment in history.

Professor Stiglitz argues that the conception of "freedom" pushed by Professor Hayek and other neoliberals, including Milton Friedman, led us down another wrong path.

"They talked of 'free markets', as if imposing rules and regulations results in 'unfree markets'," he writes.

"They relabeled private enterprises — companies owned by private individuals — as 'free enterprises', as if giving them that appellation would bestow a reverence and suggest that they should not be touched and their freedom should not be curtailed even if they exploit people and the planet.

"[And] the Right claims that governments have unnecessarily restricted freedom through taxation, which constrains the budgets of the rich and thereby … reduces their freedom to act.

"Even in this they are only partially correct because the societal benefits of the expenditures financed by these taxes, the investments in infrastructure and technology, for instance, may expand their opportunity sets (their freedom) in more meaningful ways," he writes."It is evident today that free and unfettered markets advocated by Hayek and Friedman and so many on the Right have set us on the road to fascism, to a twenty-first-century version of authoritarianism made all the worse by advances in science and technology, an Orwellian authoritarianism where surveillance is the order of the day and truth has been sacrificed to power."

'Neoliberal capitalism' has contributed to the rise of fascism, says Nobel laureate

The attacks on democracy and freedom "have never been greater in my lifetime," warns Nobel Prize-winning economist Joseph Stiglitz.

www.abc.net.au

It's not the right it's the authoritarians.
Out with small business.
Oppressive laws.
Enlarged government and public service.
Making land unavailable to anyone.
Flooding the country with "breeders" no investment into public infrastructure.

A lot of riots are in direct conflict with the authoritarians and their draconian rules. That's what the lockdown protests were about.

 

[SirRumpole]

I see my thread on the path some libertarians take to become neo-fascists has been deleted. I suppose that is a sign of fascism at work. 1984.
Anyway thought the following was interesting.

Joseph Stiglitz, winner of the Nobel Memorial Prize in Economic Sciences, is asking everyone, in this fraught moment in history.

Professor Stiglitz argues that the conception of "freedom" pushed by Professor Hayek and other neoliberals, including Milton Friedman, led us down another wrong path.

"They talked of 'free markets', as if imposing rules and regulations results in 'unfree markets'," he writes.

"They relabeled private enterprises — companies owned by private individuals — as 'free enterprises', as if giving them that appellation would bestow a reverence and suggest that they should not be touched and their freedom should not be curtailed even if they exploit people and the planet.

"[And] the Right claims that governments have unnecessarily restricted freedom through taxation, which constrains the budgets of the rich and thereby … reduces their freedom to act.

"Even in this they are only partially correct because the societal benefits of the expenditures financed by these taxes, the investments in infrastructure and technology, for instance, may expand their opportunity sets (their freedom) in more meaningful ways," he writes."It is evident today that free and unfettered markets advocated by Hayek and Friedman and so many on the Right have set us on the road to fascism, to a twenty-first-century version of authoritarianism made all the worse by advances in science and technology, an Orwellian authoritarianism where surveillance is the order of the day and truth has been sacrificed to power."

'Neoliberal capitalism' has contributed to the rise of fascism, says Nobel laureate

The attacks on democracy and freedom "have never been greater in my lifetime," warns Nobel Prize-winning economist Joseph Stiglitz.

www.abc.net.au

That's Trumpism all over.

 

[IFocus]

It's not the right it's the authoritarians.

Afraid ATM it is.

​

 

[moXJO]

Afraid ATM it is.

​

Left is in control. limiting speech and information, hitting unions and smashing poor people. Left in name only though.
Standard of living is the worst I have seen it.

 

[IFocus]

Left is in control. limiting speech and information, hitting unions and smashing poor people. Left in name only though.
Standard of living is the worst I have seen it.

Want to start with the UK brought to its knees but conservative government and now being attacked by right wing extremists on misinformation spread by RW extremists.

US where the right have plans to disassemble the rule of law and its administration along with subverting elections.
Justa about all federal Republicans are now on board with the 2020 election was stolen.

BTW no one has attacked unions more than the right it was unions that gave the middle class a voice, power and real freedom from enslavement by the rich and powerful.

 

[moXJO]

Want to start with the UK brought to its knees but conservative government and now being attacked by right wing extremists on misinformation spread by RW extremists.

US where the right have plans to disassemble the rule of law and its administration along with subverting elections.
Justa about all federal Republicans are now on board with the 2020 election was stolen.

BTW no one has attacked unions more than the right it was unions that gave the middle class a voice, power and real freedom from enslavement by the rich and powerful.

Which part of too much UK immigration is misinformation?
That wasn't a conservative government it was globalist flogs.
Those rioters have spent years watching UK get turned into a human dumping ground.
The government is legit sht and once again leftist support it. Same thing happening in Ireland. You cannot have a two tier policing system. Their PMs speech was disgusting as well. Truly lost the plot.

It was interesting watching the cfmeu get attacked. I'm no fan of a lot of those grubs. But that was the last truly militant unions that could put up a fight. Neutered under which government, why the Labor government of course. I was actually shocked watching it go down. That same journalist hit our army as well, which makes me wonder about his motives.

I'm no fan of that sell out Dutton either. I'd vote greens before that d1ckwad.

But it's interesting the left regurgitating the same rubbish about what's going on. You all supported lockdowns, vaccines that weren't approved, told us media was legit, government was doing good for the nation, big corporations had our best interests and on and on.

So much has happened the last 8 years and you still think it's conservatives vs liberals. At this point it's globalists shafting the lot of us. If you don’t wake up soon you will simply wonder what happened.

The problem is there's no one to vote in that actually loves the country.

 

[farmerge]

Which part of too much UK immigration is misinformation?
That wasn't a conservative government it was globalist flogs.
Those rioters have spent years watching UK get turned into a human dumping ground.
The government is legit sht and once again leftist support it. Same thing happening in Ireland. You cannot have a two tier policing system. Their PMs speech was disgusting as well. Truly lost the plot.

It was interesting watching the cfmeu get attacked. I'm no fan of a lot of those grubs. But that was the last truly militant unions that could put up a fight. Neutered under which government, why the Labor government of course. I was actually shocked watching it go down. That same journalist hit our army as well, which makes me wonder about his motives.

I'm no fan of that sell out Dutton either. I'd vote greens before that d1ckwad.

But it's interesting the left regurgitating the same rubbish about what's going on. You all supported lockdowns, vaccines that weren't approved, told us media was legit, government was doing good for the nation, big corporations had our best interests and on and on.

So much has happened the last 8 years and you still think it's conservatives vs liberals. At this point it's globalists shafting the lot of us. If you don’t wake up soon you will simply wonder what happened.

The problem is there's no one to vote in that actually loves the country.

@moXJO Not too sure about everything you have stated here, but do agree that finding a Rep for Parliament to vote for is a hard find.

 

[DB008]

That's Trumpism all over.

Righteo....

You are spreading misinformation once again

Who is manipulating the media?
The Dems

Who blocked investigations into the fraudulent 2020 Election?
The Dems

Who has an open border and is letting millions of unvetted people into their country?
The Dems

Who coerced social media to rally against Trump?
The Dems

Who cancelled DEI and let woke culture go wild?
The Dems

 

[IFocus]

Which part of too much UK immigration is misinformation?
That wasn't a conservative government it was globalist flogs.
Those rioters have spent years watching UK get turned into a human dumping ground.
The government is legit sht and once again leftist support it. Same thing happening in Ireland. You cannot have a two tier policing system. Their PMs speech was disgusting as well. Truly lost the plot.

It was interesting watching the cfmeu get attacked. I'm no fan of a lot of those grubs. But that was the last truly militant unions that could put up a fight. Neutered under which government, why the Labor government of course. I was actually shocked watching it go down. That same journalist hit our army as well, which makes me wonder about his motives.

I'm no fan of that sell out Dutton either. I'd vote greens before that d1ckwad.

But it's interesting the left regurgitating the same rubbish about what's going on. You all supported lockdowns, vaccines that weren't approved, told us media was legit, government was doing good for the nation, big corporations had our best interests and on and on.

So much has happened the last 8 years and you still think it's conservatives vs liberals. At this point it's globalists shafting the lot of us. If you don’t wake up soon you will simply wonder what happened.

The problem is there's no one to vote in that actually loves the country.

Nah there is no left or so called Liberals the whole political spectrum moved to the right as soon as neoliberalism was universally accepted by all.

That alone removed protections for the middle and lower classes which remains under attack, examples of the moral abbiss are tax breaks for the wealthy in the US and removed of penalty rates here in Australia for the lowest paid simple tests but telling.

All the while cheered on by the right wing supporters as the right pushed further out losing support so to claw back power they run culture wars attacking the weakest in our societies sowing divisions and gathering outrage / votes to gain power and further shear the sheep for their corporate masters, was that 26 times the Coalition voted against having a inquiry into Banking in Australia?

The Joh Bjelke-Petersen government was a real authoritarian corrupted government backed by a corrupted police force also supported Australia wide by conservatives. It Labor supporters / unionists that faced off and got bashed / arrested by police fighting for real freedoms (speech / right of protest / gatherings) not a right winger in sight.

We are here to day as a result of conservatives (they have held power for the majority of time) with a small but major interruption from Withlam who inserted some soul into the Australian landscape but since continually white anted by various conservative governments.

 

[sptrawler]

As I've always said, when the conservatives are in very little gets done, the union fight them, the media fights them, everything they try to implement gets shot down.
When Labor gets in $hit happens, welfare rorts get sorted,as is happening with the NDIS, the unions are getting sorted, as happened with the pilots, real wages are going down as happened with the wages accord, the education system is getting sorted, the Government is going to reduce funding of universities unless teacher standards improve.

None of the above would be allowed to happen with a conservative Government, the pain is yet to come, but when it does the conservatives will be back in for another boring 10-15 years.

Wash, rinse repeat., probably after the next term of office, when the grid collapses and a lot of process industries close, but hopefully this time its' different.

But I don't think it will be.

 

[StockyGuy]

As I've always said, when the conservatives are in very little gets done, the union fight them, the media fights them, everything they try to implement gets shot down.
When Labor gets in $hit happens, welfare rorts get sorted,as is happening with the NDIS, the unions are getting sorted, as happened with the pilots, real wages are going down as happened with the wages accord, the education system is getting sorted, the Government is going to reduce funding of universities unless teacher standards improve.

None of the above would be allowed to happen with a conservative Government, the pain is yet to come, but when it does the conservatives will be back in for another boring 10-15 years.

Wash, rinse repeat., probably after the next term of office, when the grid collapses and a lot of process industries close, but hopefully this time its' different.

But I don't think it will be.

Yeah maybe it's been pretty cyclical in Australia for the last few decades. Being non-partisan for a moment, I'm damn curious who will win in the end, like in a thousand years or ten thousand years etc. It probably won't be as exciting as Star Trek or Warhammer 40K. Maybe Idiocracy.

 

[IFocus]

As I've always said, when the conservatives are in very little gets done, the union fight them, the media fights them, everything they try to implement gets shot down.
When Labor gets in $hit happens, welfare rorts get sorted,as is happening with the NDIS, the unions are getting sorted, as happened with the pilots, real wages are going down as happened with the wages accord, the education system is getting sorted, the Government is going to reduce funding of universities unless teacher standards improve.

None of the above would be allowed to happen with a conservative Government, the pain is yet to come, but when it does the conservatives will be back in for another boring 10-15 years.

Wash, rinse repeat., probably after the next term of office, when the grid collapses and a lot of process industries close, but hopefully this time its' different.

But I don't think it will be.

I guess to keep it all in perspective to the current system is internal / external wars as existed in previous milenia something that I think Trump and his so-called followers are edging the US towards with the extreme divisive language.

 

[sptrawler]

I guess to keep it all in perspective to the current system is internal / external wars as existed in previous milenia something that I think Trump and his so-called followers are edging the US towards with the extreme divisive language.

I don't see either side of U.S politics doing much about the war issues, currently there is a Fleet heading to the middle east. another one based off Taiwan, Putin and Kim Jong Un causing mayhem in Europe.
I really wouldn't say the current mob in the U.S, have done a brilliant job on the global harmony stage.
Whether Trump makes it better or worse is a moot point, he has to get elected first and from the snippets I've read that isn't a sure thing.
Sometimes, same as here, you have to flip them occasionally IMO.

 

[moXJO]

Nah there is no left or so called Liberals the whole political spectrum moved to the right as soon as neoliberalism was universally accepted by all.

That alone removed protections for the middle and lower classes which remains under attack, examples of the moral abbiss are tax breaks for the wealthy in the US and removed of penalty rates here in Australia for the lowest paid simple tests but telling.

All the while cheered on by the right wing supporters as the right pushed further out losing support so to claw back power they run culture wars attacking the weakest in our societies sowing divisions and gathering outrage / votes to gain power and further shear the sheep for their corporate masters, was that 26 times the Coalition voted against having a inquiry into Banking in Australia?

The Joh Bjelke-Petersen government was a real authoritarian corrupted government backed by a corrupted police force also supported Australia wide by conservatives. It Labor supporters / unionists that faced off and got bashed / arrested by police fighting for real freedoms (speech / right of protest / gatherings) not a right winger in sight.

We are here to day as a result of conservatives (they have held power for the majority of time) with a small but major interruption from Withlam who inserted some soul into the Australian landscape but since continually white anted by various conservative governments.

I'd actually agree with a lot of this.

As it stands both parties are following similar lines of attack. Small business, standard of living, housing, taxes and waste/cost blow outs, education which flows into all things.

I've noticed the right starting to walk into authoritarianism. But it really is entrenched into the leftist elite and big corporations.
It's really a combined effort at the moment.

 

[Knobby22]

Fascism has a clear social construct and is a different system to Democracy. Authoritarism in my mind is a bit different and can be within a democracy in certain circumstances but obviously an Authoritarian State is absolute and can easily have ideologies that are not fascist. Definitions follow:

Neo-fascism is a post–World War II ideology that includes significant elements of fascism. Neo-fascism usually includes ultra-nationalism, racial supremacy, populism, authoritarianism, nativism, xenophobia and opposition to immigration, as well as opposition to liberal democracy, parliamentarianism, Marxism, communism and socialism. Allegations that a group is neo-fascist may be hotly contested, especially if the term is used as a political epithet. Some post–World War II regimes have been described as neo-fascist due to their authoritarian nature, and sometimes due to their fascination with and sympathy towards fascist ideology and rituals.

Authoritarianism is characterized by highly concentrated and centralized power maintained by political repression and the exclusion of potential challengers. It uses political parties and mass organizations to mobilize people around the goals of the regime. A prominent justification for authoritarianism is the view that unquestioning obedience to authority is somehow crucial to maintaining the social order and preventing chaos and great harm. Political scientists have created many typologies describing variations of authoritarian forms of government. Authoritarian regimes may be either autocratic or oligarchic in nature and may be based upon the rule of a party, a leader or the military

 

[moXJO]

Fascism has a clear social construct and is a different system to Democracy. Authoritarism in my mind is a bit different and can be within a democracy in certain circumstances but obviously an Authoritarian State is absolute and can easily have ideologies that are not fascist. Definitions follow:

Neo-fascism is a post–World War II ideology that includes significant elements of fascism. Neo-fascism usually includes ultra-nationalism, racial supremacy, populism, authoritarianism, nativism, xenophobia and opposition to immigration, as well as opposition to liberal democracy, parliamentarianism, Marxism, communism and socialism. Allegations that a group is neo-fascist may be hotly contested, especially if the term is used as a political epithet. Some post–World War II regimes have been described as neo-fascist due to their authoritarian nature, and sometimes due to their fascination with and sympathy towards fascist ideology and rituals.

Authoritarianism is characterized by highly concentrated and centralized power maintained by political repression and the exclusion of potential challengers. It uses political parties and mass organizations to mobilize people around the goals of the regime. A prominent justification for authoritarianism is the view that unquestioning obedience to authority is somehow crucial to maintaining the social order and preventing chaos and great harm. Political scientists have created many typologies describing variations of authoritarian forms of government. Authoritarian regimes may be either autocratic or oligarchic in nature and may be based upon the rule of a party, a leader or the military

I don't think "fascism" is on the rise.
I think countries have looked at China’s ability to turn their population in to essentially npc and want to do something similar.

Nationalism isn't currently that strong. We are split into groups and "Australia together" is seen as bad.

Immigration is too high and is lowering the standard of living. It's also done in a way that isn't in the nation's best interests. The opposition to mass migration is not the same as being against all migration.
We just had a young 11 yo girl come back from the UK that was stabbed something like 7 times by a Romanian. All people are not the same and there are some we shouldn't be flooding the country with. I'd rather Asian immigrants.

Populism is alive and well. But it's not due to fascism.

I honestly think it's authoritarianism. It's also creeping over to the corporate world as big political donors are becoming more brazen about their government links. Small business is getting wiped.

 

[IFocus]

Totally agree but I am old enough to remember the yellow plague, rage against Vietnamese etc but Asians have been a huge benefit to Oz

Note Hanson won a seat running anti Asian agenda.

I'd rather Asian immigrants.

 

[orr]

We just had a young 11 yo girl come back from the UK that was stabbed something like 7 times by a Romanian. All people are not the same and there are some we shouldn't be flooding the country with. I'd rather Asian immigrants.

i don't know if you spent time in London Mox.. I have and have scars to prove it.:
It's a place where you put a match stick between two blades of a stanley knife so that when you slash someones cheek ( the eastend smile :} it leaves an indelable scar because of the flesh it removes ... not my particular expirence, but not one uncommon
London is one of the most violent cities on the planet.
I ran a pub in the East End pub for 12 months int the mid nighties; ever heard of a bloke known as 'the Guv'na' ? google him and the the gypsye; it's a minute and you will not forget... Or watch more closely 'Lock Stock and Two Smoke'n Barrels' for his appearence.
The pub I ran? the holding lease was operated out of a another pub toward WhiteChaple called the Guv'n's ... see if you can make the connection.

Sorry but 'da' world especially London ain't as 'twee' as some want it to be. even without mental cases on the streets.
Take yourself on avisit to Spittal fields one day and an histirical tour, the guts of the prostitutes decorating the walls, High class decorator so they say.

Jullian Dicks? Westham??? ..... 'The Pirahnas ' 'Gett'n Beat'n Up'

Beggs the question: have some of you blokes ever lived?