So your saying you could earn 50% yr in yr out on your capital invested? (not trading as thats a business im talking investing which is long term)
one can be ordinary when it comes to investing in property thats leveraged
A very average property with good leverage can beat a sharemarket expert with less leverage over the long term.
I pursued what I consider the lowest risk path. As I don't seek great financial wealth and view wealth as friends, family, health and happiness I decided setting up a business was not for me. I did not have the luxury of inherited wealth, but did receive a good education. The secret is there is no secret.
Maximise your hourly rate doing something you like and are good at. Continuously save and invest more than you earn and spend more time on financially educating yourself than watching sport and you'll end up wealthy. While nothing is risk free there, educating yourself has a high probability of success. If you learn something from everyone you come into contact with you'll be a success.
Duc,
So you don't like Tech's assumptions, but you make them yourself.
What other "consumer durable good" returns rent??
I also have experience in multiple properties for nearly 30 years, and know how true is Tech's post.
Every investment is based on some assumptions, walking across the road with a green light is done with assumptions. TechA's assumptions are much better than yours.
brty
tech/a seems to have a good strategy, the trick will be ensuring he is not over leveraged when rates rise and prices fall. I love leverage, but only to buy undervalued assets.
What other consumer durable returns rent - how about an automobile if you rent it out as a taxi during the week? How about a lawnmower that you hire out? How about a set of golf clubs that you hire out? The examples are numerous.
*Your calculations assume a continuous rise in capital values.
Yes. I have been on this planet 55 yrs and noticed that everything is higher than it was when I started working.
*Your calculations assume a continuous rise in rental values.
Yes.
*Your calculations assume demand continuing to be higher than supply.
In my area and in the small Zone 50 Sq Km I work in----Yes.
I'm not seeing anything to the contrary---
Duc,tech/a
Therefore would it not bear an exposition upon the fundamental factors driving those assumptions?
Housing capital values and rents rise due in part to the inflationary policy of governments seeking to abrogate property rights and control the supply of money through debasement. While they continue to do so, I agree that real property will inflate to match/exceed/trail that expansion.
In addition, there are favourable tax treatments of various components. While this is not unimportant, tax benefits can be had elsewhere, thus, for the moment we'll consider tax treatment a wash.
Thus an investment that returns circa the inflationary rate, isn't really that much of a wealth creating vehicle, rather, a wealth preserving vehicle.
Which brings us onto the only valid point in regards to the useage of residential real estate, the ability to acquire 100% leverage, and sometimes a little more, without facing a mark-to-market margin call
Thus the gains within this asset class are essentially are gains of leverage.
So for this thread to truly live up to it's title of exceptional thinking we would need to consider the possibilities of leverage within other asset classes to this level, and whether the returns are generated [outside of the leverage] would exceed the gains of an inflationary nature.
jog on
duc
Duc,
Minus the word "thus" and its overuse, you have written some good stuff of late.
Trends to watch:
•Oil, coal, natural gas and the companies that service them.
•Electric cars are inevitable as we have passed peak oil. BYD is the best play I know of there, but the shares are now overpriced.
•As oil rises AE will have a second wave in it's current growth path. Vestas wind and GE in turbines. STP is the lowest cost producer in solar. These are not recommendations, you should look and wait for good entry points if you are interested. Solar is the riskiest.
•The fall of the USD, especially against commodity based currencies like AUD.
•The final end of this commodity boom. Wealth is made the fastest on the way down.
tech/a
So you gain a 2% management fee + 20% of the profits for managing money in the financial markets.
duc
As you seem happy in your real estate box, I'm quite prepared to leave the subject.
Money available for such ventures can start around $10M - $100M. Thus assuming the upper-end, as it's just so much more exciting, you stand to earn $2M as a management fee + 20% of let's say a 30% return is another $6M for a total of $8M in your first year.
There was some doubt?
30% on 10-100 mill.
Vast difference between dreaming and doing Ducster.
There was some doubt?
30% on 10-100 mill.
20% management fee.
Proven track record of the 30% return.
Vast difference between dreaming and doing Ducster.
30% on 10-100 mill.
20% management fee.
Proven track record of the 30% return.
Vast difference between dreaming and doing Ducster.
tech/a. I think we all totally agree you need a train. I like your analogy.
duc, nice writeup on XOM. Have you looked at COP? Oil is not my in my wheelhouse, but I'm slowly trying to get up to speed. I mention COP as Buffett took a stake at considerably higher prices.
A quick comparison http://finance.yahoo.com/q/co?s=COP shows it has half the revenues and almost half the EBITDA of XOM yet sells for 28% of the price based on EV. That makes me want to dig deeper into COP.
Sorry all, I know this should be on a different thread, but still finding my way around ASF.
lol ... who the heck is gonna pay you 2/20 + lockdown ... industry averages are like 0.5-1.0% + free flight ... 99% of funds don't ever go over 1%. You've been reading to many newbie investment books. hahah ... You're dreaming ... living in a fantasy world. Those days are gone. :nuts:
Property is hardly exceptional.
2% on 10-100 mill.
20% incentivefee.
Proven track record of the 30% return.
Vast difference between dreaming and doing Ducster.
matty 2.0 said:lol ... who the heck is gonna pay you 2/20 + lockdown ... industry averages are like 0.5-1.0% + free flight ... 99% of funds don't ever go over 1%. You've been reading to many newbie investment books. hahah ... You're dreaming ... living in a fantasy world. Those days are gone
Originally Posted by tech/a View Post
2% on 10-100 mill.
20% incentivefee.
Proven track record of the 30% return.
Vast difference between dreaming and doing Ducster.
Just a bit of corrections.
That shows that you know very little about the hedge funds industry, especially managed futures. Newbie investment books don't mention a single word about these niche products because they are totally out of bound for them.
Note 2/20 is only a rule of thumb. CTAs may charge a different rate depending on the structure of the fund and potential return/risk, or length of track record. You may see 3/30 on even some of them, ridicious, yes, but you will be surprised how many people do invest in those funds for the potential reward.
These are EXCEPTIONAL investment vehicles for the REAL rich, not your typical "industry average" managed funds for poor mums and dads.
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