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Tisme said:
Wars are started, won and lost by diplomats. Joe was rooted in some weird patriotism (like most of New England today) for Catholic Ireland.

One of John's girlfriends, when working in naval intelligence, was Hitler's poster girl, Inga Arvad.

Then he is in charge of a boat that he is driving at high speed, in pitch black knowing enemy boats are also plying the waves. He gets his boat sunk, two crew members dead and he swims to shore with his other mates, him with the most severely injured in tow.

His GF Inga, now working at the Washington Post and his other white elite GF Francis Cannon and her journo husband John Hersey worked their newspaper, media & Washington connections magic to turn a court marshall into hero worship. John Hersey went on to fill in for JFK at remote venues when JFK was busy playing govt or with other peoples darlings ;)
Click to expand...

Woah. Really? I got my facts from that Hard Ball Chris Matthews who wrote a book on JFK.

I've seen realised that Matthews is a blowhard and I can't trust him with the news but he wrote a book man. That's like historical research and stuff.

I'm beginning to question everything I learn about historical figures now.

There's George Washington the destroyer of villages who was most likely have lied about cutting down that apple tree. Dam it!

There's Jefferson who own slaves, don't reckon all men are created equal... rape one of his slaves, that we know of and fathered kids he put into slavery.

There's Teddy the warmongering racist imperialist instead of a scholarly bookworm trying to emulate great men to make America great again.

Next you're telling me Lincoln didn't go to war to free the slaves.

btw, Aussie kids are still being taught about White Christians' burdens. Coming to Australia to help civilised the Aborigines. Showing them how to live because surviving for some 50,000 years and not turning their environment into plague infested hell hole isnt the way God would've wanted it.
 
"Wars are started, won and lost by diplomats."

LOL!!
How bout International Banking Establishment? Wall Street? Industrial Military Complex?
They have any say in the matter?
 
luutzu said:
Woah. Really? I got my facts from that Hard Ball Chris Matthews who wrote a book on JFK.

I've seen realised that Matthews is a blowhard and I can't trust him with the news but he wrote a book man. That's like historical research and stuff.

I'm beginning to question everything I learn about historical figures now.

There's George Washington the destroyer of villages who was most likely have lied about cutting down that apple tree. Dam it!

There's Jefferson who own slaves, don't reckon all men are created equal... rape one of his slaves, that we know of and fathered kids he put into slavery.

There's Teddy the warmongering racist imperialist instead of a scholarly bookworm trying to emulate great men to make America great again.

Next you're telling me Lincoln didn't go to war to free the slaves.

btw, Aussie kids are still being taught about White Christians' burdens. Coming to Australia to help civilised the Aborigines. Showing them how to live because surviving for some 50,000 years and not turning their environment into plague infested hell hole isnt the way God would've wanted it.
Click to expand...

Was a time when Oz children were taught to have a cynical attitude towards american sincerity when it came to truth. Even their own rose up in the sixties because they could no longer connect the "truth" with the overt facts.

If you haven't spent time in the U$ofA you can't really appreciate just how much of that malignant movie schmultz and self belief in their own misdirections is embraced as sacrosanct.
 
newanimal said:
"Wars are started, won and lost by diplomats."

LOL!!
How bout International Banking Establishment? Wall Street? Industrial Military Complex?
They have any say in the matter?
Click to expand...

You want to elaborate with facts, rather than conspiracy theory?
 
"Wars are started, won and lost by diplomats."
sounds like a quote from a book written by war mongerer General Alexander Haig.
How do these Polly Anna world views continue to survive?
Willful ignorance, naivete, and gullibility taken beyond the furthest reaches of space... where no man has gone before.
True, diplomats give the 'appearance' on the political public stage that attempts are being made to resolve conflicts peaceably.
And what a silly idea... CONSPIRACY... imagine... extremely wealthy powerful men and elite families,
making plans... out of public view and knowledge, that are not in the best interest of the people, but their own. Who would believe such a thing?
 
newanimal said:
"Wars are started, won and lost by diplomats."
sounds like a quote from a book written by war mongerer General Alexander Haig.
How do these Polly Anna world views continue to survive?
Willful ignorance, naivete, and gullibility taken beyond the furthest reaches of space... where no man has gone before.
True, diplomats give the 'appearance' on the political public stage that attempts are being made to resolve conflicts peaceably.
And what a silly idea... CONSPIRACY... imagine... extremely wealthy powerful men and elite families,
making plans... out of public view and knowledge, that are not in the best interest of the people, but their own. Who would believe such a thing?
Click to expand...

Any facts or just writing a novella? :troll:
 
your dismissal of this well documented fact already given in another thread was ineffective and unconvincing.
The Military Industrial Complex in action:


U.S. Military Wanted to Provoke War With Cuba
  • By DAVID RUPPE
N E W Y O R K, May 1, 2001



In the early 1960s, America's top military leaders reportedly drafted plans to kill innocent people and commit acts of terrorism in U.S. cities to create public support for a war against Cuba.

Code named Operation Northwoods, the plans reportedly included the possible assassination of Cuban émigrés, sinking boats of Cuban refugees on the high seas, hijacking planes, blowing up a U.S. ship, and even orchestrating violent terrorism in U.S. cities.

The plans were developed as ways to trick the American public and the international community into supporting a war to oust Cuba's then new leader, communist Fidel Castro.

America's top military brass even contemplated causing U.S. military casualties, writing: "We could blow up a U.S. ship in Guantanamo Bay and blame Cuba," and, "casualty lists in U.S. newspapers would cause a helpful wave of national indignation."

Details of the plans are described in Body of Secrets (Doubleday), a new book by investigative reporter James Bamford about the history of America's largest spy agency, the National Security Agency. However, the plans were not connected to the agency, he notes.

The plans had the written approval of all of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and were presented to President Kennedy's defense secretary, Robert McNamara, in March 1962. But they apparently were rejected by the civilian leadership and have gone undisclosed for nearly 40 years.

"These were Joint Chiefs of Staff documents. The reason these were held secret for so long is the Joint Chiefs never wanted to give these up because they were so embarrassing," Bamford told ABCNEWS.com.

"The whole point of a democracy is to have leaders responding to the public will, and here this is the complete reverse, the military trying to trick the American people into a war that they want but that nobody else wants."

Gunning for War

The documents show "the Joint Chiefs of Staff drew up and approved plans for what may be the most corrupt plan ever created by the U.S. government," writes Bamford.

The Joint Chiefs even proposed using the potential death of astronaut John Glenn during the first attempt to put an American into orbit as a false pretext for war with Cuba, the documents show.

Should the rocket explode and kill Glenn, they wrote, "the objective is to provide irrevocable proof … that the fault lies with the Communists et all Cuba [sic]."

The plans were motivated by an intense desire among senior military leaders to depose Castro, who seized power in 1959 to become the first communist leader in the Western Hemisphere — only 90 miles from U.S. shores.

The earlier CIA-backed Bay of Pigs invasion of Cuba by Cuban exiles had been a disastrous failure, in which the military was not allowed to provide firepower.The military leaders now wanted a shot at it.

"The whole thing was so bizarre," says Bamford, noting public and international support would be needed for an invasion, but apparently neither the American public, nor the Cuban public, wanted to see U.S. troops deployed to drive out Castro.

Reflecting this, the U.S. plan called for establishing prolonged military — not democratic — control over the island nation after the invasion.

"That's what we're supposed to be freeing them from," Bamford says. "The only way we would have succeeded is by doing exactly what the Russians were doing all over the world, by imposing a government by tyranny, basically what we were accusing Castro himself of doing."

'Over the Edge'

The Joint Chiefs at the time were headed by Eisenhower appointee Army Gen. Lyman L. Lemnitzer, who, with the signed plans in hand made a pitch to McNamara on March 13, 1962, recommending Operation Northwoods be run by the military.

Whether the Joint Chiefs' plans were rejected by McNamara in the meeting is not clear. But three days later, President Kennedy told Lemnitzer directly there was virtually no possibility of ever using overt force to take Cuba, Bamford reports. Within months, Lemnitzer would be denied another term as chairman and transferred to another job.

The secret plans came at a time when there was distrust in the military leadership about their civilian leadership, with leaders in the Kennedy administration viewed as too liberal, insufficiently experienced and soft on communism. At the same time, however, there real were concerns in American society about their military overstepping its bounds.

There were reports U.S. military leaders had encouraged their subordinates to vote conservative during the election.

And at least two popular books were published focusing on a right-wing military leadership pushing the limits against government policy of the day.

The Senate Foreign Relations Committee published its own report on right-wing extremism in the military, warning a "considerable danger" in the "education and propaganda activities of military personnel" had been uncovered. The committee even called for an examination of any ties between Lemnitzer and right-wing groups. But Congress didn't get wind of Northwoods, says Bamford.

"Although no one in Congress could have known at the time," he writes, "Lemnitzer and the Joint Chiefs had quietly slipped over the edge."

Even after Lemnitzer was gone, he writes, the Joint Chiefs continued to plan "pretext" operations at least through 1963.

One idea was to create a war between Cuba and another Latin American country so that the United States could intervene. Another was to pay someone in the Castro government to attack U.S. forces at the Guantanamo naval base — an act, which Bamford notes, would have amounted to treason. And another was to fly low level U-2 flights over Cuba, with the intention of having one shot down as a pretext for a war.

"There really was a worry at the time about the military going off crazy and they did, but they never succeeded, but it wasn't for lack of trying," he says.

After 40 Years

Ironically, the documents came to light, says Bamford, in part because of the 1992 Oliver Stone film JFK, which examined the possibility of a conspiracy behind the assassination of President Kennedy.

As public interest in the assassination swelled after JFK's release, Congress passed a law designed to increase the public's access to government records related to the assassination.

The author says a friend on the board tipped him off to the documents.

Afraid of a congressional investigation, Lemnitzer had ordered all Joint Chiefs documents related to the Bay of Pigs destroyed, says Bamford. But somehow, these remained.

"The scary thing is none of this stuff comes out until 40 years after," says Bamford.



If you have time to read anything other than books written by war criminal Henry Kissinger or whatever it is you enjoy, why not further your education and read, "War Is A Racket"
by Smedley D. Butler, a retired United States Marine Corps Major General and two-time Medal of Honor recipient. Lot's of facts in there. It's a good read.
 
newanimal said:
your dismissal of this well documented fact already given in another thread was ineffective and unconvincing.
The Military Industrial Complex in action:


U.S. Military Wanted to Provoke War With Cuba
  • By DAVID RUPPE
N E W Y O R K, May 1, 2001
...............yadda yadda

If you have time to read anything other than books written by war criminal Henry Kissinger or whatever it is you enjoy, why not further your education and read, "War Is A Racket"
by Smedley D. Butler, a retired United States Marine Corps Major General and two-time Medal of Honor recipient. Lot's of facts in there. It's a good read.
Click to expand...

Yeah but you are welded to a conspiracy yarn that has as much traction as spin from a govt stooge. It's all circumstance dressed up in someone else's clothes.

There is a major difference between strategy and tactical. It's the govt who decides what tools are allowable for tactical deployment, it's the generals who decide how to deploy, but the strategy is the over arching govt policy/plan to achieve the aims (goals), objectives (measured steps) to meet the desirable outcomes of the strategy. Diplomats are the official conduit for before, during and after.

Generals can natter and wax lyrical among themselves, even prepare recommendations to the defence minister, but at the end of the day their master is the govt and Operation Northwoods was a non event n'est pas?
 
speaking of "diplomats" war criminals and Henry Kissinger, here's some interesting 'facts' regarding his "diplomatic" adventures around the globe:

 
newanimal said:
"Wars are started, won and lost by diplomats."

LOL!!
How bout International Banking Establishment? Wall Street? Industrial Military Complex?
They have any say in the matter?
Click to expand...

There's a lot of truth and wisdom in that statement of McGee's. He does speak a few gem now and then.
 
newanimal said:
speaking of "diplomats" war criminals and Henry Kissinger, here's some interesting 'facts' regarding his "diplomatic" adventures around the globe:

Click to expand...


I swear Kubrick based Dr Strangelove on Kissinger. Only difference is Dr Strangelove is more likeable and not much of a war criminal.
 
Tisme said:
Was a time when Oz children were taught to have a cynical attitude towards american sincerity when it came to truth. Even their own rose up in the sixties because they could no longer connect the "truth" with the overt facts.

If you haven't spent time in the U$ofA you can't really appreciate just how much of that malignant movie schmultz and self belief in their own misdirections is embraced as sacrosanct.
Click to expand...

There was a time like that? Dam you're old. Or maybe just an ancient historian. :D

I grew up in Australia watching only American movies and sitcoms. It's only by accident, and laziness to get the remote, that we'd watch OZ tv. And we're worried about Muslims taking over Australia.

Yea, never been to the US. Might go one day after I get over the fear of being anal probed at the airport. Ey, if they would scream and yell at an elderly White Aussie children's author, being a brownish yellowish guy will definitely get picked out for extra screening.
 
newanimal said:
your dismissal of this well documented fact already given in another thread was ineffective and unconvincing.
The Military Industrial Complex in action:


U.S. Military Wanted to Provoke War With Cuba
  • By DAVID RUPPE
N E W Y O R K, May 1, 2001



In the early 1960s, America's top military leaders reportedly drafted plans to kill innocent people and commit acts of terrorism in U.S. cities to create public support for a war against Cuba.

Code named Operation Northwoods, the plans reportedly included the possible assassination of Cuban émigrés, sinking boats of Cuban refugees on the high seas, hijacking planes, blowing up a U.S. ship, and even orchestrating violent terrorism in U.S. cities.

The plans were developed as ways to trick the American public and the international community into supporting a war to oust Cuba's then new leader, communist Fidel Castro.

America's top military brass even contemplated causing U.S. military casualties, writing: "We could blow up a U.S. ship in Guantanamo Bay and blame Cuba," and, "casualty lists in U.S. newspapers would cause a helpful wave of national indignation."

Details of the plans are described in Body of Secrets (Doubleday), a new book by investigative reporter James Bamford about the history of America's largest spy agency, the National Security Agency. However, the plans were not connected to the agency, he notes.

The plans had the written approval of all of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and were presented to President Kennedy's defense secretary, Robert McNamara, in March 1962. But they apparently were rejected by the civilian leadership and have gone undisclosed for nearly 40 years.

"These were Joint Chiefs of Staff documents. The reason these were held secret for so long is the Joint Chiefs never wanted to give these up because they were so embarrassing," Bamford told ABCNEWS.com.

"The whole point of a democracy is to have leaders responding to the public will, and here this is the complete reverse, the military trying to trick the American people into a war that they want but that nobody else wants."

Gunning for War

The documents show "the Joint Chiefs of Staff drew up and approved plans for what may be the most corrupt plan ever created by the U.S. government," writes Bamford.

The Joint Chiefs even proposed using the potential death of astronaut John Glenn during the first attempt to put an American into orbit as a false pretext for war with Cuba, the documents show.

Should the rocket explode and kill Glenn, they wrote, "the objective is to provide irrevocable proof … that the fault lies with the Communists et all Cuba [sic]."

The plans were motivated by an intense desire among senior military leaders to depose Castro, who seized power in 1959 to become the first communist leader in the Western Hemisphere — only 90 miles from U.S. shores.

The earlier CIA-backed Bay of Pigs invasion of Cuba by Cuban exiles had been a disastrous failure, in which the military was not allowed to provide firepower.The military leaders now wanted a shot at it.

"The whole thing was so bizarre," says Bamford, noting public and international support would be needed for an invasion, but apparently neither the American public, nor the Cuban public, wanted to see U.S. troops deployed to drive out Castro.

Reflecting this, the U.S. plan called for establishing prolonged military — not democratic — control over the island nation after the invasion.

"That's what we're supposed to be freeing them from," Bamford says. "The only way we would have succeeded is by doing exactly what the Russians were doing all over the world, by imposing a government by tyranny, basically what we were accusing Castro himself of doing."

'Over the Edge'

The Joint Chiefs at the time were headed by Eisenhower appointee Army Gen. Lyman L. Lemnitzer, who, with the signed plans in hand made a pitch to McNamara on March 13, 1962, recommending Operation Northwoods be run by the military.

Whether the Joint Chiefs' plans were rejected by McNamara in the meeting is not clear. But three days later, President Kennedy told Lemnitzer directly there was virtually no possibility of ever using overt force to take Cuba, Bamford reports. Within months, Lemnitzer would be denied another term as chairman and transferred to another job.

The secret plans came at a time when there was distrust in the military leadership about their civilian leadership, with leaders in the Kennedy administration viewed as too liberal, insufficiently experienced and soft on communism. At the same time, however, there real were concerns in American society about their military overstepping its bounds.

There were reports U.S. military leaders had encouraged their subordinates to vote conservative during the election.

And at least two popular books were published focusing on a right-wing military leadership pushing the limits against government policy of the day.

The Senate Foreign Relations Committee published its own report on right-wing extremism in the military, warning a "considerable danger" in the "education and propaganda activities of military personnel" had been uncovered. The committee even called for an examination of any ties between Lemnitzer and right-wing groups. But Congress didn't get wind of Northwoods, says Bamford.

"Although no one in Congress could have known at the time," he writes, "Lemnitzer and the Joint Chiefs had quietly slipped over the edge."

Even after Lemnitzer was gone, he writes, the Joint Chiefs continued to plan "pretext" operations at least through 1963.

One idea was to create a war between Cuba and another Latin American country so that the United States could intervene. Another was to pay someone in the Castro government to attack U.S. forces at the Guantanamo naval base — an act, which Bamford notes, would have amounted to treason. And another was to fly low level U-2 flights over Cuba, with the intention of having one shot down as a pretext for a war.

"There really was a worry at the time about the military going off crazy and they did, but they never succeeded, but it wasn't for lack of trying," he says.

After 40 Years

Ironically, the documents came to light, says Bamford, in part because of the 1992 Oliver Stone film JFK, which examined the possibility of a conspiracy behind the assassination of President Kennedy.

As public interest in the assassination swelled after JFK's release, Congress passed a law designed to increase the public's access to government records related to the assassination.

The author says a friend on the board tipped him off to the documents.

Afraid of a congressional investigation, Lemnitzer had ordered all Joint Chiefs documents related to the Bay of Pigs destroyed, says Bamford. But somehow, these remained.

"The scary thing is none of this stuff comes out until 40 years after," says Bamford.



If you have time to read anything other than books written by war criminal Henry Kissinger or whatever it is you enjoy, why not further your education and read, "War Is A Racket"
by Smedley D. Butler, a retired United States Marine Corps Major General and two-time Medal of Honor recipient. Lot's of facts in there. It's a good read.
Click to expand...


Apparently the Soviets caught wind of an imminent US invasion of Cuba so they rushed over a few nukes, leading to the Cuban missile crisis and an few minutes to midnight.

Can't remember who said it, possibly Howard Zinn, that Soviet planners was looking for an ideal place to house their nukes. Ideal as in be enough of a deterrent so the Yank would think real hard before making a first strike.

The Soviets ability to wipe Berlin or London off the map isn't enough of a deterrent for the US because, well, it's Europe. So they figured Cuba would be ideal.

Good to know that great men are playing with the world like it's their own private chess board.
 
luutzu said:
I swear Kubrick based Dr Strangelove on Kissinger. Only difference is Dr Strangelove is more likeable and not much of a war criminal.
Click to expand...

"The world is run by madmen and psychopaths" --John Lennon

"Power is the ultimate aphrodisiac." --Henry Kissinger

"Military men are just dumb stupid animals to be used in foreign policy"-- Henry Kissinger
 
newanimal said:
"The world is run by madmen and psychopaths" --John Lennon

"Power is the ultimate aphrodisiac." --Henry Kissinger

"Military men are just dumb stupid animals to be used in foreign policy"-- Henry Kissinger
Click to expand...

As Chomsky said, one of the nicer things about Kissinger is that he's honest about foreign policy. No BS or liberal niceties about overthrowing (often democratically elected) government and committing genocide to advance "the national interest".
 
Conspiracy or the Canadian Govt enforcing it's laws:

I give you the "fruitmachine", which could weed out gays from the general population:

Gaydar.jpg
 
We all like to have a dig at the US but the truth is that all powerful nations are just as bad.
Russia is currently seeding propaganda to their population after they attacked a US position in Syria through their merc group wagner.
Iran also testing the waters into Israel.
Then we have China pushing into the south sea and overseeing Myanmar etc.

There is a push against the US and everyone will be crying like babies when the eventually fall and their cushy way of life disappears.

Russia, China and the rest would be worse to live under.
 
moXJO said:
Russia, China and the rest would be worse to live under.
Click to expand...

Of course, but it's a bit like Barnaby. If you set yourself up as a paragon of righteous virtue and people find out that you are not, you get tarnished pretty quickly.


No one except their brainwashed citizens are under the delusion that Russia or China are spritiually advanced, so no one expects anything good from them.
 
SirRumpole said:
Of course, but it's a bit like Barnaby. If you set yourself up as a paragon of righteous virtue and people find out that you are not, you get tarnished pretty quickly.


No one except their brainwashed citizens are under the delusion that Russia or China are spritiually advanced, so no one expects anything good from them.
Click to expand...
And thats why the UN gets absolutely nothing done.

Only idiots were under the delusion that our way of life didn't come at a cost. Those same idiots usually bemoan our privileged western lifestyle, all while sipping chai lattes in their upmarket suburb.
 
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