The Conspiracy Theory thread

[CanOz]

Isn't that the main benefit of a Mediterranean diet?

Check the chart on the video, i think the Greeks etc., were lower yeah...naturally reducing it would mean that you are eating a balanced nutritional diet. If your body still has high cholesterol then i must be because it needs it, IMO.

CanOz

 

[Julia]

I was a bit confused by the statement made at the end by the lady, when she said "Whatever level of cholesterol is in your bloodstream is the right level for you. Don't mess with it".

Good heavens, that sounds pretty unreasonable to me. Are we therefore to dismiss entirely the whole principle that high levels of cholesterol ultimately cause hardening of the arteries with pretty obvious sequelae?

(I haven't watched the video beyond the first five or so minutes.)

Is the suggestion similar to that on climate science where whole populations, including experienced and highly educated doctors, are swept along with some widely accepted premise?

Surely there have been many valid studies which have properly demonstrated a link between elevated cholesterol and heart disease?

Surely there is a difference between using medication like statins to lower cholesterol and lowering it naturally by the food we eat. Isn't that the main benefit of a Mediterranean diet?

Why would there be any difference? Never having had high cholesterol I don't know anything about statins, but presumably they are the same as any other synthetically formulated substance designed to replicate what - in this instance - is the result of the so called Mediterranean diet?
To suggest otherwise is rather to suggest that pharmaceutically manufactured opiates for pain relief are different in effect than consuming an opioid in original plant form which makes no sense.

Genes will play a dominant part in determining cholesterol levels and heart disease. I'd be concerned at any thought that as a result of some isolated video, large numbers of people will throw away their prescribed medication and feel blithely assured that high cholesterol will never adversely affect them.

 

[Gringotts Bank]

Krill oil lowers cholesterol, if anyone is interested. Quite solid evidence too. Is as effective as synthetic drugs.

 

[Country Lad]

Good heavens, that sounds pretty unreasonable to me. Are we therefore to dismiss entirely the whole principle that high levels of cholesterol ultimately cause hardening of the arteries with pretty obvious sequelae?

(I haven't watched the video beyond the first five or so minutes.)

I suggest you watch the video before making comments.

Check the chart on the video, i think the Greeks etc., were lower yeah...naturally reducing it would mean that you are eating a balanced nutritional diet. If your body still has high cholesterol then i must be because it needs it, IMO.

Yes. large study showed that different cultures with different levels of cholesterol had similar levels of heart disease.

Krill oil lowers cholesterol, if anyone is interested. Quite solid evidence too. Is as effective as synthetic drugs.

So do some other foods. For example, my cholesterol level has been fairly steady at a tad over 7 for years. I ate 3 to 4 eggs per day for 4 weeks prior to one test and it dropped to 4. Next year's test was again over 7.

Krill and fish oil reduce the Cholesterol level but not to the same extent by a different mechanism. I take the concentrated fish oil.

Cheers
Country Lad

 

[Julia]

I suggest you watch the video before making comments.

Perhaps you'd be good enough to provide a synopsis before I take up an hour of my time on something being discussed in the Conspiracy Theory thread.

 

[bellenuit]

Why would there be any difference? Never having had high cholesterol I don't know anything about statins, but presumably they are the same as any other synthetically formulated substance designed to replicate what - in this instance - is the result of the so called Mediterranean diet?

I agree with most of what you posted, Julia, but in relation to statins there was a diagram between the 26 and 27 minute mark that explained why statins might be counterproductive, reproduced below. The video was saying that statins act high up in the biological chain by partially blocking the path between the top compound Ace-something (I can't make it out) and Mevalonate. This reduces the production of Mevalonate, which in turn causes an equivalent reduction in the production of the compounds lower down in that diagram, one of which is cholesterol. Unfortunately, also reduced will be COQ10, which apparently is a needed compound for muscles to function properly. If the Mediterranean diet reduces cholesterol by simply not producing it, rather than acting on an agent higher up in the chain that does more than reduce cholesterol, then that would be one difference.

But I still came away confused about cholesterol. It showed in a negative way the ad for Uncle Toby's oats which claims to reduce cholesterol, but didn't indicate its negativity was because Uncle Toby's was cashing in on the "cholesterol scare" or because the food itself was the wrong thing to eat. It just happens to be my favourite breakfast - porridge with some sultanas and banana.

 

[Julia]

I agree with most of what you posted, Julia, but in relation to statins there was a diagram between the 26 and 27 minute mark that explained why statins might be counterproductive, reproduced below. The video was saying that statins act high up in the biological chain by partially blocking the path between the top compound Ace-something (I can't make it out) and Mevalonate. This reduces the production of Mevalonate, which in turn causes an equivalent reduction in the production of the compounds lower down in that diagram, one of which is cholesterol. Unfortunately, also reduced will be COQ10, which apparently is a needed compound for muscles to function properly. If the Mediterranean diet reduces cholesterol by simply not producing it, rather than acting on an agent higher up in the chain that does more than reduce cholesterol, then that would be one difference.

OK, I see. Many thanks, bellenuit, for going to the trouble of explaining that.

But I still came away confused about cholesterol.

Interesting, in that you have good capacity for understanding and analysis. Did it actually suggest elevated LDL cholesterol does not contribute to heart disease?

 

[Country Lad]

Did it actually suggest elevated LDL cholesterol does not contribute to heart disease?

Yes, there is no direct correlation between cholesterol level and heart disease. The average cholesterol in the UK has been gradually falling so this table of men with high cholesterol level vs heart disease will probably answer your question.

Cheers
Country Lad

 

[Julia]

Interesting. Thank you. I wish reporting on cholesterol included LDL v HDL levels as one is considered damaging and the other protective. In search of this (becoming interested despite myself) I found this article in the Scientific American: http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=cholesterol-conundrum
It doesn't really advance the question much, but the summary paragraph on page 3 is interesting.

 

[MrBurns]

I think this deserves it's own thread -


https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26677&p=768778#post768778

 

[DB008]

Could be BS...

An Anonymous CIA agent finally testifies about Area 51, Black Ops, And UFOs. (vimeo.com)

http://vimeo.com/64939351

 

[Some Dude]

Yes, there is no direct correlation between cholesterol level and heart disease. The average cholesterol in the UK has been gradually falling so this table of men with high cholesterol level vs heart disease will probably answer your question.

The British Heart Foundation seem to say otherwise:

Cholesterol is a fatty substance found in the blood. It's mainly made in the body, and plays an essential role in how every cell in the body works. However, too much cholesterol in the blood can increase your risk of cardiovascular disease.

On Cardiovascular Disease:

Cardiovascular disease (CVD) means all the diseases of the heart and circulation including coronary heart disease (angina and heart attack), and stroke.

It would be interesting to see the context for the table i.e. did they mean no causal relationship via risk factor, or no link?

 

[DB008]

Moon landing hoax- NOT

 

[DB008]

Bloomberg - Metals, Currency Rigging Worse Than Libor, Bafin’s Koenig Says

Germany’s top financial regulator said possible manipulation of currency rates and prices for precious metals is worse than the Libor-rigging scandal, which has already led to fines of about $6 billion.

The allegations about the currency and precious metals markets are “particularly serious, because such reference values are based -- unlike Libor and Euribor -- typically on transactions in liquid markets and not on estimates of the banks,” Elke Koenig, the president of Bafin, said in a speech in Frankfurt yesterday.

Koenig is the first global finance regulator to comment publicly on the investigations as probes into the London interbank offered rate, or Libor, expand into other benchmarks. Joaquin Almunia, the European Union’s antitrust chief, said this week that its preliminary probe into possible foreign-exchange manipulation covers similar practices as in the regulator’s probe into Libor-rigging.

Bonn-based Bafin said earlier this week it is investigating currency trading, joining regulators in the U.K., U.S. and Switzerland, who are examining whether traders at the world’s largest banks colluded to manipulate the WM/Reuters rates, used by money managers to determine the value of holdings in different currencies.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-01-16/metals-currency-rigging-worse-than-libor-bafin-s-koenig-says.html

 

[DB008]

This one is interesting.

60 minutes USA

 

[springhill]

The British Heart Foundation seem to say otherwise:



On Cardiovascular Disease:



It would be interesting to see the context for the table i.e. did they mean no causal relationship via risk factor, or no link?

I apologise for butting in, but this conversation reminded me of the Australian Heart Foundation & the dalliance with McDonalds.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/th...rt-of-foundation/story-e6freuy9-1226145340644

If I may, allow me to play Devil's advocate.

Would it be too long of a bow to draw to ask if organisations such as these are pseudo lobby groups, loosely based on science, seeking to stay relevant, whilst social engineering, to protect Government grant monies and ultimately act in a manor of job protectionism?

As the old saying goes, there are lies, statistics and damn lies.

I can tell you that I am part of a small agricultural group who has taken on one of the most powerful independent federal regulators over the past 2 years based on their scientific judgements and have proven them to be erroneous.
Sometimes a small hillbilly farmer does know more than the scientists!

 

[DB008]

Yes, the SEC was colluding with banks on CDO prosecutions

Back in 2011, I asked whether the SEC was colluding with banks on CDO prosecutions. And now, thanks to an American Lawyer Freedom of Information Request, we have the answer: yes, they were.

This comes as little surprise: it beggared belief, after all, that every bank would end up being prosecuted for one and only one CDO. But now we have chapter and verse: the key precedent, it seems, was the first one, Goldman Sachs.

The SEC filed its case against Goldman and Tourre on April 16, 2010. Three days later Goldman reached out with a $500 million settlement offer, according to an email that Reisner sent Khuzami. Although that proposal was close to the final payment, it took another three months to announce a settlement. As Khuzami described to Kotz, Goldman wanted a global settlement that resolved not just the Abacus investigation but the SEC’s probes into roughly a dozen other Goldman CDOs.

Khuzami didn’t want to give Goldman that public victory. When the SEC and Goldman announced on July 16, 2010, that the investment bank would settle the Abac*us case for $550 million, the SEC said in a press release that the settlement “does not settle any other past, current or future SEC investigations against the firm.”

Khuzami was determined that Goldman’s payment only be linked to ABACUS. “This was not a $550 million settlement for 11 cases,” Khuzami told Kotz. “We may tell Goldman that we are concluding our investigations in these other matters without recommending charges, but that doesn’t mean we’re settling them. And that was an important point for us, because we didn’t want them out there saying, you know, they settled 12 CDO investigations for an average of $30 million each, and, you know, didn’t [Goldman] get a great deal.”

Yet in its statement on the Abacus settlement at the time, Goldman said that the SEC had concluded a review of other CDOs and did not anticipate recommending claims for now.

​

http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2014/04/09/yes-the-sec-was-colluding-with-banks-on-cdo-prosecutions/

 

[DB008]

HSBC files show how Swiss bank helped clients dodge taxes and hide millions

Data in massive cache of leaked secret bank account files lift lid on questionable practices at subsidiary of one of world’s biggest financial institutions
​

HSBC’s Swiss banking arm helped wealthy customers dodge taxes and conceal millions of dollars of assets, doling out bundles of untraceable cash and advising clients on how to circumvent domestic tax authorities, according to a huge cache of leaked secret bank account files.

The files – obtained through an international collaboration of news outlets, including the Guardian, the French daily Le Monde, BBC Panorama and the Washington-based International Consortium of Investigative Journalists – reveal that HSBC’s Swiss private bank:

• Routinely allowed clients to withdraw bricks of cash, often in foreign currencies of little use in Switzerland.

• Aggressively marketed schemes likely to enable wealthy clients to avoid European taxes.

• Colluded with some clients to conceal undeclared “black” accounts from their domestic tax authorities.

• Provided accounts to international criminals, corrupt businessmen and other high-risk individuals.

The HSBC files, which cover the period 2005-2007, amount to the biggest banking leak in history, shedding light on some 30,000 accounts holding almost $120bn (£78bn) of assets.

The origin of the leak The HSBC files were obtained through an international collaboration of news outlets, including the Guardian, Le Monde, BBC Panorama and the International Consortium of Investigative Journalists

1 In late 2007, Hervé Falciani, an IT expert at HSBC's Swiss bank, hacked into its customer files. He fled to France with police on his trail for breaching Switzerland's rigid bank secrecy laws.

2 The French authorities detained him, but refused to extradite him when they realised the data could identify thousands of French tax evaders. Falciani now lives in France under protection.

3 In early 2010, under finance minister Christine Lagarde, France prepared confidential lists of the leaked names for other countries. The so-called "Lagarde list" led to scandal and arrests in Greece, Spain, the US, Belgium and Argentina.

4 Britain's tax authority, HMRC, received a list in 2010 from which it identified more than 1,000 tax evaders. More than £135m ($206m) was quietly recovered in repayments, but only one person was prosecuted. There has been no UK legal action against HSBC.

http://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/feb/08/hsbc-files-expose-swiss-bank-clients-dodge-taxes-hide-millions

 

[explod]

Why is the unpalatable truth whispered and described as conspiracy theories?

 

[Smurf1976]

Why is the unpalatable truth whispered and described as conspiracy theories?

My personal thought is that (1) humans have a natural tendency to expect the future to be a continuation of present trends (2) everyone has certain beliefs as to what is a given and (3) anything that fits in the "conspiracy theory" category usually involves either a major trend break and/or that something accepted as a given is not actually the case.