The concept of GREED

Greedy pig - "Oh I've made shyt loads of money from RE... Best I double my position now so I can make double a shyt load in the future".

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I was going to post this as a reply to Snakey in the thread https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=266151

However I find the concept of greed held by quite a few here very interesting.

Before I give my own personal view I thought what is peoples definition of GREED and how do they quantify and justify the level of financial succes as greed.

(1) My own view of greed is one of a Dictatorship,or Government who have no regard for their constituents---simply bleeding them dry with no concern for their well being---quelling up rising with force--read death.

(2) On the other side of the coin---people who CHOOSE not to take care of their own finances now or in the future and expect in fact demand they be taken care of by Government and in turn YOU and I by way of welfare--Welfare cheats.

I do not classify those who have spectacular success in creating financial wealth through legal means as greedy---IF when they reach the point where they have ample wealth they can and do help others---at their DISCRETION.
Packer was a perfect example-- Gates does---many "Movie Stars" do.
Some here do.

Re: The Concept of GREED.

tech/a said:

I do not classify those who have spectacular success in creating financial wealth through legal means as greedy---IF when they reach the point where they have ample wealth they can and do help others---at their DISCRETION.

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Says alot there tech.People are quick to label someone greedy with their own situation (usually worse off) as a comparison.

Re: The Concept of GREED.

I cant speak for Snakey, but, I think he means in the context of Greed and the absense of perceived risk.

ie/ People with 10 IPs, some theoretical equity and looking for more debt and more risk all whilst believing RE is some eternal equity gravy train. Like the gambler continually doubling his bets till he hits the table maximum.

I wouldnt think many on this forum would have issue with the pursuit of wealth, this is infact probably why so many use this forum.

Another example would be the pure unadulterated greed that has landed so many banks in strife at this very given point in time.

I've seen the old saying proven so many times "The Greedy become the Needy".

Happy Investing

Re: The Concept of GREED.

- Taking more than you deserve - of course this depends on who you ask :

- Benefiting at the expense of others. Once again a blurred distinction, given many markets are zero sum.

tech/a I agree with the point re government, but worth considering that most of the time it starts with good intention (ie. left wing leadership)

I know you are a business man and I am sure respect honest financial success as much as I do...but we should spare a thought for the other side of the argument. Even honest money is not necessarily deserved - markets have a path dependence (QWERTY), chance can and does play a huge part...

I disagree with the notion that helping others is at your discretion, as soon as you have more than you need, then you are as far as I see it, obligated to help others. I don't reserve my judgement in this regard.

Re: The Concept of GREED.

Greed is when money is more important to someone than anything else in their life. Their health and family come second and their excessive desire for more and more money makes them lose sight for what they are really working for.

Working hard for your money and investing in stocks or property is not greed, it is bettering yourself and setting up yourself for the future.

Re: The Concept of GREED.

julius said:

- i disagree with the notion that helping others is at your discretion, as soon as you have more than you need, then you are as far as I see it, obligated to help others. I don't reserve my judgement in this regard.

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Just this bit julius, my see on the discretion meaning - giving and helping others is from wanting to do so, not upon demand or expectation.

People have expectation thrust upon them and that is not right.If the individual is not expected to act in this manner then they may well help less fortunates of their own free will.This is a mark of a genuine person and not someone meeting other peoples expectations.There is the difference.

If it is noticed that those with way more than they need are not giving of their own free will, then that is not a human trait to desire.Pity not of them.

Re: The Concept of GREED.

Wysiwyg I appreciate the sentiment but it's more about the practical results of charity that I am concerned with.

Re: The Concept of GREED.

I think greed is

looking for reward with no effort and
blinked to risk..

It is joining a bandwagon
too late

getting in on tops with margin..

It is wanting what everybody else has
but free riding..

It is mindless following along instead of doing.

looking back
and coveting what others have achieved

It is reactionary
It is stealing

motorway

Greed is accumulating and never having to say you are sorry.

Like love and hubris, it is only in the future, that past sins can be appraised.

Greed is still a sin, I am told.

I think it should be, when I look at it.

More for others though, than for me.

gg

Re: The Concept of GREED.

Bill M said:

Greed is when money is more important to someone than anything else in their life. Their health and family come second and their excessive desire for more and more money makes them lose sight for what they are really working for.

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I second this definition, thanks Bill.

Greed is trying to be the richest man (or woman) in the cemetary and not caring if anyone attends the funeral.

For me, greed is seeking personal security and wealth at the expense of others. If no one else is being disadvantaged in the pursuit of wealth (e.g. Bill's example of family being ignored etc.) then I don't see why what skills we have in terms of wealth creation should not be used. Such pleasure, then, in being able to help those who do not share those skills.

Re: The Concept of GREED.

Wysiwyg said:

Says alot there tech.People are quick to label someone greedy with their own situation (usually worse off) as a comparison.

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Reminds me of a quote Wysiwyg;

“Greed: A word commonly used by liberals, low achievers, anti-capitalists and society's losers to denigrate, shame and discredit those who have acquired superior job skills and decision-making capabilities and who, through the application of those job” - Neal Boortz (US "Shock Jock")

Greedy investors

What is a greedy investor? We are all investors trying to make the best result at the end of the day. So are investors greedy for trying make maximum profit. No I dont think so. Everybody wants to get out at the top or close to it.
Webster says;
greed - : marked by greed : having or showing a selfish desire for wealth and possessions
Being greedy is being given a house for twelve months easy work and wanting another house for the next twelve months work. That to me is greedy.
Wanting ten times what everybody else has got, thats greedy.
seeing something you own going up 100% in value so you double your position then it goes up another 100% so you double your position again untill you get burnt. Thats being to greedy for your own good. Simular to what numbercruncher is talking about. Not even thinking about risk, only thinking about the reward.
Tech please feel free to disect my post into little peices but please give longer replies and put more thought into your analizations. Sometimes you miss the point all together.
As far as my post in the RE thread you refer to, Alot my friends have multiple properties because, lets face it, one is not enough for them. They can only live in one but they have several. Why? because they want to be richer than the average joe. Fair enough I guess but this greedy tendency has not only given them more money, its taken money from others in a less fortunate positions. Which also happens to be their children that now need to have dual income to pay for a house. Many RE pigs will say OH thats OK Ill just give them one of my properties. Thats fine but that doesnt help guy next doors children. Anyway such is life things should soon balance themselves out as far as income to the price of RE goes.
Many first home buyers are wanting to by a house, not 5 just 1. People that are buying RE now are fearful that they will miss this run away gravy train. But people who are waiting for a better opportunity to enter the market will be the ones who are better off because they wont be over commited with pending interest rate rises and will pay less for their property IMO. I mentioned that I have a small position in RE not to become filthy rich but to own the place where I live. No one can tell me to get out and I can do things to the house that I want to do. So I wont be selling now tech.
Remember tech we are all here to give are opinion and we dont have to all agree with one idea. We are all individuales and we are expected to have different ideas. I refuse to debate endlessly on forums because I dont have the time or the patients. these are my views like or lump em.

Re: The Concept of GREED.

Wysiwyg said:

Just this bit julius, my see on the discretion meaning - giving and helping others is from wanting to do so, not upon demand or expectation.

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I don't think you have to have more than you need in order to help others...

But not helping others doesn't mean you are greedy. It could just be apathy or the belief you don't have anything worthwhile to teach or express, that stops you from helping others.

Everyone has ther own threshold for greed. I could probably say when I am personally being greedy, if I breech certain conditions recently listed on my blog for instance. But they certainly wouldn't apply to others, and even if I did breech those, it wouldn't mean to others that I was being greedy.

However, what my personal threshold for greed is, and what most people's thoughts of it are, are probably similar.

i.e. deliberately foregoing, or at the expense of, the benefits of everything else, and of everyone else, in order for personal gain.

Might be at the expense of the family, environment, fellow workers, employees etc. and may be inividual as well as communal, in society or business. As nations, the US and Australia are greedy when it comes to resources for example.


I've always thought of wealth and money building to be the side effect of doing things correctly, whatever that may be. I don't think you can continue to build capital (in all senses of the word) indefinitely, with greed. For greed is folly, and with folly comes destruction.

My land lord for my clinic rooms, 3 years ago, bragged to me that he could afford to retire. Now, he claims that he is broke, and he can't afford to pay his employees' super. He would be earning well into the six figures... but he had to have a 70k car on credit, had to buy another few houses, has to have $100 dinners each night, has to have many credit cards (and has to pay off the minimum amount).

Not only is that greedy, but it is also ****ing stupid! I don't think you see greed without stupidity very often...

nioka said:

Greed is trying to be the richest man (or woman) in the cemetary and not caring if anyone attends the funeral.

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As far as short summations go, I quite like this one

I wouldn't say greed is related to consumption per se, more related to the constant re-evaluation of goals & ideals. Once you reach a particular goal & decide you will not be satisfied and want more, and constantly re-set your goals based on the accumulation of assets of others, that is greed.

Mofra said:

As far as short summations go, I quite like this one

I wouldn't say greed is related to consumption per se, more related to the constant re-evaluation of goals & ideals. Once you reach a particular goal & decide you will not be satisfied and want more, and constantly re-set your goals based on the accumulation of assets of others, that is greed.

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Spot on Mofra. I saw a programme where multimillionaires went to Africa to help with projects. One broke off before the project was finished as he had to leave for a meeting to add a few more millions to the hundreds of millions that he'd already made.

The point I'm attempting to make on the Concept of Greed by SOME I have made here.

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=266315#post266315

To retire Financially Independant we need to have un encumbered wealth in excess of 4 Million at a constant 3.1% inflation rate.

Have a look at the charts and I look forward to comment.

tech/a said:

The point I'm attempting to make on the Concept of Greed by SOME I have made here.

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=266315#post266315

To retire Financially Independant we need to have un encumbered wealth in excess of 4 Million at a constant 3.1% inflation rate.

Have a look at the charts and I look forward to comment.

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I'll bite - that $4M is a bit of a scare figure. If that's in 15 years time, at 3.1% inflation its about $2.5M in today's money. Today's money is what we can relate to and that's the figure to quote.

5% investment return during retirement is also rather pessimistic. Most large super funds aim for and achieve 7% over the long term.

Personally I think I could retire very comfortably with $2m in today's money. At 7% return I could draw down 3.9% or 78,000 every year tax free. This would rise each year to match inflation, I could live off it indefinately and when I'm gone the $2M of todays money would still be there to pass on as an inheritance.

tech/a said:

To retire Financially Independant we need to have un encumbered wealth in excess of 4 Million at a constant 3.1% inflation rate.

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It is probably as good a measure as any, but that would be aimed at an "average" standard of living would it not?

$50k pa in todays dollars, although slightly below average salary, can still afford a reasonably high standard of living. Given many retirees "downsize" their homes, often moving to cheaper areas, grow their own vegetables etc. I'd say retiring with less does not necessitate a determined move away from financial independance.

Or maybe I'm just not greedy