The beauty in religion

[Struzball]

Great story bunyip.

Not to take anything away from how nice a story it is, but I wish there could be some sort of congregation outside of the church that has the power and numbers to do good things like that.

Even as a non-christian, I would still have loved to help her out. But sadly I don't feel the need to attend a congregation on my Sunday mornings to find out about such needing people.

 

[Tink]

Finally some positives -- yay

Beautiful story Bunyip and thanks for sharing

The Church IS about goodness in people

I have seen many helped, be it religious or not..

No one agrees with any of the bad that has happened.

 

[MS+Tradesim]

Ditto. Yes, thanks for contributing. We all know the bad.

 

[bunyip]

Great story bunyip.

Not to take anything away from how nice a story it is, but I wish there could be some sort of congregation outside of the church that has the power and numbers to do good things like that.

Well actually there are a number of 'congregations' unrelated to religion that do some very caring and compassionate work in the community.
For example, when I was in the Lions Club we raised money and got donations of materials and used the skills of tradesmen within our club to build a kids playground at a local park.

We heard of an elderly widow who had recently lost her husband and was doing it hard. We painted her fence and cleaned up her yard and top dressed her lawn, did some minor repairs to her house.

We never did any projects on the scale of that renovation done by the church congregation for the widow, but we plugged away with smaller projects month after month, year after year.

Rotary clubs do similar voluntary projects in the community, as do a number of other organizations.

 

[bunyip]

Finally some positives -- yay

Beautiful story Bunyip and thanks for sharing

The Church IS about goodness in people

I have seen many helped, be it religious or not..

No one agrees with any of the bad that has happened.

I agree with you Tink....the church is mostly about goodness in people. Well the Christian church is anyway, but I'm not so sure about other religions.
Most of the people I've met in churches have been pretty decent folks who are willing to help others.
A few not so pure types among them of course, but you get that in any organisation.

 

[Tink]

Yep I agree - I have been involved in the Catholic Church all of my life and have had nothing but good from it..
I have had the same feedback from my children..

I can even say they have helped me at times.. and I have seen and been involved in helping alot of others too..
My daughter sings at the Church as well as other places..

 

[Happy]

It almost looks that people cannot be good without religion.

 

[Tink]

well when the Pope came down, with a huge congregation of people of all faiths, did you hear of any violence?

Now how many times do you see so many young people gather together in concert form, in the open like that with no trouble..?

Feedback was peaceful and the atmosphere was happy and friendly..

 

[ColB]

Originally posted by Tink:

well when the Pope came down, with a huge congregation of people of all faiths, did you hear of any violence?

Now how many times do you see so many young people gather together in concert form, in the open like that with no trouble..?

Feedback was peaceful and the atmosphere was happy and friendly..

So you didn't see the "No to Pope Coalition" protest Tink?

You didn't see Sydney Gay Groups protesting against the Pope's Visit only 500 metres away from the World Youth Day official tent?

Even special legislation introduced by Government to muzzle protest against WYD was thwarted in the Federal Court.

Having said that It was good to see everyone have a good time but I am a bit miffed that my taxes were paying for it but not much more miffed than subsidising a Melbourne Grand Prix.

I did hear that many really enjoyed the event.......

A SYDNEY brothel is welcoming World Youth Day pilgrims, urging "potential sinners to commit their sins" before the Pope leaves Australia.

Xclusive Gentlemen's Club says it is hiring extra staff during the week-long Catholic event and has already noticed an increase in patronage.

The brothel, in Sydney's east, is only minutes from many WYD events and nearby Randwick Racecourse - the site of the papal mass with Pope Benedict XVI on June 20.

Xclusive said in a statement it was not targeting pilgrims, but would welcome everyone during WYD.

Up to 500,000 people, including more than 100,000 international pilgrims, are expected to flock to Sydney to WYD events, which run until July 20.

"Of course, any pilgrims who want to spend their money and experience the pleasures and delights that Xclusive gives Sydneysiders, are welcome.

"We had already anticipated the increase in demand and put on extra workers in anticipation.

"We are ready, willing and able, and have discreet credit card transaction service and a rear lane entrance. Mum will never know."

The brothel is also offering a 10 per cent discount to the more than 3,000 media with WYD accreditation.

Meanwhile, Catholic organisers say free condoms being handed to pilgrims will be a laugh, after a group vowed to distribute them.

The bishop in charge of organising the huge gathering in Sydney the national sexual health group’s actions would add comic relief to celebrations.

The Pope is a strident advocate of sex only after marriage, and leads the church’s position against artificial contraception such as condoms.

But Marie Stopes International said it wanted to promote safe sex among the pilgrims.

“World Youth Day is expected to attract up to 225,000 international and local youth and the simple fact is that many young people – including Catholics - have sex," Marie Stopes International spokeswoman Jill Michelson said.

A protest group, the NoToPope Coalition, is also planning to hand out condoms to pilgrims as they walk through Sydney's eastern suburbs on July 19

But World Youth Day co-ordinator Bishop Anthony Fisher said today the condoms would add a bit of humour to the event but he hoped the group would also respect the pilgrims' beliefs.

"It will probably be part of the comedy at times," he said.

Bishop Fisher also defended the right of people to protest the event and said heavy handed policing should not be necessary.

"It's a very open question whether such laws are necessary, given the powers the police already have," he said.

"The laws are a matter for government ... (but) we've said we don't think there'll be any need for fines or police action. I think our protesters, if there are any, are going to be very peaceable."

Bishop Fisher said the hostile reception some Sydneysiders were giving the World Youth Day event was confusing to pilgrims.

"It's a pity that sometimes there's been a lot of negativity in the air - some of our pilgrims are coming saying, `What's going on here? This is the most wonderful thing for your country and for your church, they should be happy like we are,'" he said.

World Youth Day activist Rachel Evans and her NoToPope Coalition associate Amber Pike are taking the New South Wales Government to court over the controversial laws prohibiting "annoyance" and are urging people to reclaim their right to protest.

www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,24003622-661,00.html

 

[Tink]

Ha - typical
I saw better advertisements in the paper than that one..

Yep I was glad everyone had a good time

 

[bunyip]

It almost looks that people cannot be good without religion.

Not at all.
In an earlier post I mentioned that Julia works tirelessly for her community - and she doesn't have a religious bone in her.
Neither do I, and I consider myself to be basically a good person, although I'm not in the same league as Julia and others like her who devote themselves to helping others.
Many of the blokes I worked with in service clubs weren't religious, but that didn't hold them back when it came to helping people and living their lives as good and decent people.

 

[Julia]

"Religion" is however the only thing that can make good people do evil things.

That's pretty unfair, Trevor. Can you really say that all the people who have done evil things , e.g. murder, assaults, fraud, any crime really, have been motivated by religion? I don't think so.

About 13 years ago my wife nursed with a widow who had three young kids under nine years old. She was really struggling financially and emotionally, having recently lost her husband who had no life insurance.......................



So I guess that's a pretty good example of the goodness (I'm hesitant to use the word 'beauty') in religion. Without that church congregation getting behind that widow, she would have struggled for many years to have a comfortable home for herself and her kids.

Nice story of course. That church congregation could set up in opposition to "Backyard Blitz" and make a motza for the church.

But later in the thread, Bunyip, you point out yourself that other non-religious groups will equally do good works, e.g. Rotary, Lions et al.
So it doesn't have to be religion that motivates kindness to others, just as you pointed out with respect to my friend's charity at Christmas, or for that matter, my own hundreds of hours voluntarily contributing to the community.

It almost looks that people cannot be good without religion.

Tongue in cheek, of course, Happy?

well when the Pope came down, with a huge congregation of people of all faiths, did you hear of any violence?

Now how many times do you see so many young people gather together in concert form, in the open like that with no trouble..?

Feedback was peaceful and the atmosphere was happy and friendly..

As Col has subsequently described, this is a good case of your seeing what you want to see Tink. That's not a criticism. We all do it. We look for that which will substantiate our entrenched views.

There was huge resentment about the way this event just took over Sydney, forced people to change their usual activities, transport etc., and any notion of violence would have been instantly quelled by simple virtue of the huge numbers of police everywhere.

I, for one, was not happy about my taxes being used for such a partisan event.

Ha - typical
I saw better advertisements in the paper than that one..

Yep I was glad everyone had a good time

No, everyone did not have a good time. Those who were wanting to be involved in the event may have, but anyone wanting to go about their normal affairs during that period was simply out of luck.

And when you respond to a reasonable response to your assertion that it was all sweetness and light for everyone (from Col), with "Ha - typical", do you really wonder that the argument does not progress in a mood of respect for opposite points of view?

 

[beerwm]

i dont at all think its 'beautiful' that people need religion to do something kind.

more... sad than anything.

 

[Tink]

We have had plenty of people here that I wasnt too happy paying taxes for that have caused chaos.. thats the way it goes..

 

[bellenuit]

It almost looks that people cannot be good without religion.

I think that remark is over the top.

I would agree that where the practice and observance of a particular religion requires that people do good and be good, as is the case with many religions, then one would expect those who actively practice and observe the tenets of that religion to more likely be "do gooders" (using the positive meaning of this phrase) than the general population. That is one reason that many church groups contribute so positively to the communities in which they are based.

However, religion is not the only grouping of people that espouses that its members do good within the community and one can equally say that the members of those other groupings are also more likely to be "do gooders" than the general population.

Examples of Rotary and Lions Clubs have been given. On a bigger scale there are organizations like the Red Cross, Medicins Sans Frontiers, Amnesty International and a myriad of secular charitable organizations.

The "goodness" is in the human, not in the organization or religion. The organization or religion just provides a structure that attracts like minded people.

 

[Sean K]

Yep I agree - I have been involved in the Catholic Church all of my life and have had nothing but good from it..
I have had the same feedback from my children..

Either of your kids gay or lesbian Tink?

 

[Tink]

Now why would you ask something like that Kenna, not that I have a problem with gay/lesbian people. They are human beings and entitled to be happy in their choices, but the answers no.

Col showing me that there were protests wasnt something that just happens with the Pope so why put something like that in this thread..
I brought up that teenagers were happy with no problems in an open forum and you bring up protests?

People bring up stuff that happens with Religion like its the only time it happens
- no I dont see only what I want to see.

 

[Sean K]

Now why would you ask something like that Kenna, not that I have a problem with gay/lesbian people.

The Catholic church teaches that homosexuality is in the least wrong. Worst it's an abomination. My anecdotal experience is that the church can create a massive divide between parents and their siblings in regard to sexual orientation. I think it's something religion (particularly Catholicism) is perpetuating at the cost of a lot of individual and family happiness. I don't see a lot of beauty in this regard. I suppose my point is, that while you have had a wonderful experience with your faith, there are others who have been faithful all their lives, and it's actually resulted in great pain and suffering within their family. Are you sure you'd be OK if your daughter came out? I hope so.

 

[gav]

Either of your kids gay or lesbian Tink?

Are any of your family members devout muslims Kennas?

 

[Tink]

Just because I have my faith in the background, doesnt mean I go by all their rules - sheesh

I think its up to the individual and what makes them happy. My daughter knows some gay guys as friends, no big deal...
My family comes first.....