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Yes my mistake, trying to talk to the missus and type is difficult.lol Still not a lot of people really.
I'll read the links tommorrow, I'm coping a bit of flak.
The good thing is, hopefully they will hit super hard with the white paper.
With a bit of luck all super won't be available untill pension age and no pension is available untill all your super is exhausted.
That sounds fair for everyone.
This is one beef I have against Super. I am low income and I took advantage of the Government co-contribution. I feel stupid putting money into something I can't get my head around. Now running my own business, if I want to, I can put nothing into Super. Many Business Owners have very little in Super. Many Advisors and newspaper columnists are crying out that it is a bad idea. Given the trend of this thread, maybe it is better to invest money back into the business or some other form of investment.It seems terribly wrong that the government co-contribution for low income people was reduced from $1500 to $1000 and then $500, given that they gain so little by doing the very thing that the whole purpose of super was about in the first place. On the other end of the spectrum ...
http://www.afr.com/p/national/tax_leakage_alarm_over_super_wealthy_kf7K4fYSDcSI1437kKAMUN
One thing for sure, I will bet the review into super hurts the lower to middle class 100 times more than it hurts the wealthy.IMO
Hello K.Smith
Right I'm back, so 936 funds have over $10m.
And why did the govt drop the co contribution to $500.
O.K Well to make it fair, charge everyone their marginal rate minus 15% on contributions.
Nobody would put any extra in. The govt would get extra paye tax, unless the person decided to negative gear the $35k in property, or buy shares in a company that pays franked dividends at 30%.
Meanwhile the low income earners co contribution, I'm sure if you look into it there will be a reason.
It may be that $500 is the maximum that is being put in, so to drop it from $1500 to $500 isn't in reality an actual reduction just a budgetry reduction.
I'm not saying it doesn't need changing, just saying it might not work out the way everyone thinks.
But one thing for sure it will change, so don't worry too much, this government doesn't seem to worry about stepping on toes.
As to what happened to the super co-contribution, originally for $1500 and now $500 I found best explained here
http://www.smh.com.au/money/super-and-funds/the-axe-falls-on-cocontributions-20111129-1o59m.html
''...The Assistant Treasurer, Bill Shorten, said the co-contribution was being cut because the new low income super contribution would benefit more than three times as many people.
He said 3.6 million low earners were expected to receive the benefit, which refunds the 15 per cent contributions tax for those earning less than $37,000. It will be streamlined so the refund is paid automatically to members' super accounts without requiring them to lodge tax returns...."
I was speaking from the experience of my own circumstances, rather than appreciating the complete picture. I can understand that it was a better move for most low income contributors, thus will withdraw my comment. But as you point out, some things don't work out as everyone thinks.
Our circumstances were such that I (we) were better off with the co-contribution (over 60, SMSF both in pension phase, 80% loss suffered in 2008..but recoveringHusband, 65, received a part aged pension this month ).
My expectations of saving inside super have always been to provide exactly what I understand super was designed for... an income in retirement, so I draw just the minimum amount as a pension. Make it last as long as possible.
Now that I have become more active in my investments and the issues surrounding them, I am aghast that one can withdraw lump sums to go on holidays or buy a new car, and THEN line up at Centrelink. And especially appalled that there seems no end to the amount of funds high income earners can place into super. I would support a ceiling on tax concessions (perhaps there should be a $$ limit on the 15% contributions tax one can "pay" inside super? Could that be implemented more easily than a ceiling limit on fund size? )And I would support a tax on lump sum withdrawals. imo, get the tax break, stay infor the long haul ..
ps...I have a term deposit outside of super which I was intending to place into my super account next month.
After consulting my FA, have decided to re-invest it outside of super for another 6 months.
To wait and see what happens after Jan 2015.
.....
Getting back on the super issue. From life experience, I know that any punitive measures to hit the few that have mega bucks in super, will have an adverse effect on the lower end, i.e us.
I just hope they change the ability to put money in, rather than change the taxation of funds already in there.
......
Lump sum withdraw, cash splash then going on the pension is an attractive option for those with low super balances. If you only have a small sum in super it's never going to provide a sufficient retirement income anyway, no doubt this is how some view this option.Now that I have become more active in my investments and the issues surrounding them, I am aghast that one can withdraw lump sums to go on holidays or buy a new car, and THEN line up at Centrelink.
Lump sum withdraw, cash splash then going on the pension is an attractive option for those with low super balances. If you only have a small sum in super it's never going to provide a sufficient retirement income anyway, no doubt this is how some view this option.
The bigger issue to me is how assets can be packaged to collect the age pension. Because the principle residence is exempt from the assets test, at your preservation age you can draw money from super tax-free and structure your assets in a way that could allow you to live in a million dollar plus home in retirement and still collect either a full or part pension payment. Your nearest financial planner can tell you all about it and many specialize in this area. The whole issue of millionaire property owners collecting a government pension is a vexed one that the government will need to look at eventually. Super savings should provide a retirement income stream and not be used as vehicle to manipulate finances to collect the age pension.
Lump sum withdraw, cash splash then going on the pension is an attractive option for those with low super balances. If you only have a small sum in super it's never going to provide a sufficient retirement income anyway, no doubt this is how some view this option.
The bigger issue to me is how assets can be packaged to collect the age pension. Because the principle residence is exempt from the assets test, at your preservation age you can draw money from super tax-free and structure your assets in a way that could allow you to live in a million dollar plus home in retirement and still collect either a full or part pension payment. Your nearest financial planner can tell you all about it and many specialize in this area. The whole issue of millionaire property owners collecting a government pension is a vexed one that the government will need to look at eventually. Super savings should provide a retirement income stream and not be used as vehicle to manipulate finances to collect the age pension.
An issue that needs to be dealt with is - can I draw out my entire super balance (say $500k) as a lump sum from super tax free, pay off the mortgage on my million dollar home and collect a government pension? (Answer: Yes) In what way is this socially equitible or financially sustainable for our society?AS for including the family home in the assets basket to be able to weed out those that are "sitting", how can that be administered? Property values differ from state to state. The average house price in each state? above a certain level?
''...The superannuation system is among the world's most expensive, according to an April report by Grattan Institute, with Australians paying $20 billion in fees and expenses on their balances, more than three times the median charged in other countries. "High fees would not be a concern if Australians were getting value for money. But high fee funds are damaging our retirement savings," it noted.
so many complications ! I think that you have a valid point that low balance super is problematic, fees eat into funds, there is an article in the SMH about that today
I did watch that and didn't find it a criticism of the current compulsory Super as much as advice that we need to adjust savings programs according to the ever changing demographics of people living longer and longer.You should probably watch the Keating interview on Lateline, last week. It will be on the ABC website.
Really? I wasn't living here when compulsory super was introduced so I've always assumed it was introduced with the aim that - over time - it would provide an alternative to the age pension. Even at that time demographers would have foreseen the blow out which inevitably would occur as more retirees came into the system with fewer workers supporting them.At the moment, the focus is on super being a pension replacement.
When in fact the super system was introduced to be a supplement to the pension, to give working people a better retirement and enhance their old age as the pension was always a struggle.
Do you really think so? One extract from this typical SMH approach:Below is a good read.
Well, duh! Perhaps don't spend up quite so prolifically on expensive holidays and new cars.But the industry is plagued by high fees and a narrow range of products for retirees to invest their savings in. Coupled with poor spending decisions by retirees - who often cash in their super and splash out on holidays and cars - it has meant more Australians are outliving their investments.
I did watch that and didn't find it a criticism of the current compulsory Super as much as advice that we need to adjust savings programs according to the ever changing demographics of people living longer and longer.
As I understood what he was saying, he was recommending that a further 'insurance scheme' should be put in place to cover the possibility that people might live into their 90's and beyond.
He made complete sense to me, but I imagine politically it would be a hard sell.
Really? I wasn't living here when compulsory super was introduced so I've always assumed it was introduced with the aim that - over time - it would provide an alternative to the age pension. Even at that time demographers would have foreseen the blow out which inevitably would occur as more retirees came into the system with fewer workers supporting them.
How do you define "a struggle"?
eg A pensioner couple receives nearly twice as much as a single pensioner, but the single pensioner has the same council rates, insurance, phone, electricity etc. Who is struggling? Both kinds of households? Just the single pensioner?
It doesn't seem reasonable to me that compulsory super would have been introduced just to make life 'better' in retirement. Surely that should be up to individuals?
eg if they want to go for extended overseas holidays, update their car every year etc, surely it shouldn't be at the expense of the taxpayer and they should be prepared to save separately for that sort of lifestyle.
Where do you expect the money to come from to fund full age pensions, if not from compulsory Super, eventually?
From the same taxpayer who funds Newstart, Youth Allowance, Disability Support Pension, Carer Pension, Sickness Allowance, Family Tax Benefits etc etc etc?
There will simply not be enough of them to balance the numbers of retirees with the baby boomers living as long as they probably will.
Surely politicians should be able to take into account changing demographics and other circumstances, such as diminished income from the once great mining boom etc, without being hung out to dry over the need to adjust community expectations?
I've just watched most of Joe Hockey on Q & A from last Monday and commend his patience.
Only one question I heard was not antagonistic and demonstrating a reluctance to accept reality.
Further, he was presented with outraged examples of questions that had no basis in fact, eg presumably people taking as gospel what they had read in the SMH or heard from Labor et al.
Mr Hockey managed to, without losing his calm, and in the face of overt antagonism from the host, disabuse most of these people from their erroneous assumptions.
Good on him for being prepared to face what he would have known would be a largely hostile audience and host. He is a far better communicator than Mr Abbott.
Do you really think so? One extract from this typical SMH approach:
Well, duh! Perhaps don't spend up quite so prolifically on expensive holidays and new cars.
We all make choices throughout our lives. No reason retirement should be any different imo.
And if you don't like the fees in the public super funds, get financially literate and run your own fund.
Just for god's sake, stop whining!
AS for including the family home in the assets basket to be able to weed out those that are "sitting", how can that be administered? Property values differ from state to state. The average house price in each state? above a certain level?
totally agree Julia, it was very painful for me to vote Abbot: you could have given me a Costello or a Turnbull and I would have planted posters in my front yard; But i still had a fine hope i was maybe wrong: Tony Abbott is a Rhode scholar (my spelling?) and I have a lot of respect for that;Isn't what really happened that the electorate had just decided Labor had to go, for entirely valid reasons, and the Coalition were elected by default?
Perhaps I'm unfairly cynical, but I never had any expectation that an Abbott government would be anything like the government run by John Howard, and don't know why anyone else would either.
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