Students 'will never pay off HECS'

[krisbarry]

Students 'will never pay off HECS'

07sep05
THE Federal Government's higher education fees are so high that almost a third of HECS-paying students will die before they can pay their debt off, Labor says.

Opposition education spokeswoman Jenny Macklin says massive increases in HECS fees by the Federal Government have created $2.9 billion in HECS debts that are unlikely to ever be paid back.

She says the Government must introduce a more affordable Higher Education Contribution Scheme for students to give them a hope of being able to pay their debts back.

Reports have revealed federal Education Department figures showing Australians owed more than $10 billion in HECS debt in 2003-04.

More than 28 per cent of this was unlikely to be recovered, the data showed, up from 17.4 per cent in 1995-96.

"We now have students carrying such high levels of HECS debt (that) almost a third of them won't be able to pay it back in their lifetime," Ms Macklin told reporters.

"Students and graduates have been saddled with massive levels of debt under this government and now figures show a third of them won't be able pay their HECS debts back."

Ms Macklin said many people would not have well-enough-paid jobs to require them to pay their HECS debts back.

"What that means is they're going to carry those levels right throughout their lives and even carry them to their death," she said.

She said HECS threshold should remain where it is.

"The government of course, when they first came in, dramatically reduced the threshold. That was terribly unfair to students.

"The problem is not the threshold. The problem is that students now have to pay back such high levels of HECS they're carrying very, very large debts well into their adult lives."

Source:
http://www.theadvertiser.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5936,16520962%5E1702,00.html

Any Comments on this subject?

 

[tech/a]

I'm interested in the thinking of people who believe they are shackled by this mean and nasty HEC'S bill.
If there are any out there perhaps you could answer these questions?

(1) You knew about it before you took on further education---why did you then choose to go forward?

(2) Why shouldnt you pay for your further education?

(3) Would it be fairer for your parents to be burdened with the costs of your education?

(4) What would you say to those who's parents couldn't afford the fees,where as HEC's makes it possible for EVERYONE?

(5) Would you not value your education more and be more selective with your choices if your paying for it yourself?

(6) Thought the whole idea was to Graduate from a higher education to get ahead of the pack and earn more than Joe Average? If so then Paying off HEC's becomes part of life---just as taxes are.

(7) Most want it all now and this can be seen by the MASSIVE credit card debt that people under 30 have---would it not be possible that most are their own enemies?

Im interested in anyones alternate Ideas as to how to pay for tuition and education?
Please dont tell me that we should pay for it through TAX IE government pays.

Personally I think its great that the younger generation has a responsibility un to itself so early on---they might actually APPRECIATE their education!

Those that bitch I'll bet chose degrees with very little on the end of it!

Yes Kris Ive heard your long list of prospective emplyers and no one will give you a go!
Aim lower and work up.
Change your "I'm owed something attitude " You'll find employers want people who are passionate not bitter and twisted.
Result is equal to effort---find out what it takes to get a position in your field and do anything it takes to get noticed.
Offer your services for NOTHING just to get in the door!

The only thing limiting peoples advancement in ANYTHING is YOURSELF.


Thank you thank you very much!!!

 

[markrmau]

Students 'will never pay off HECS'

And neither should they. My last bill indicates an interest rate of around 2% (indexed to inflation). Since returns of 5% pa are easily obtainable (in a cash bank account for example), it is basically free money.

 

[sam21poddy]

I always paid my HECS in advance and got the 25% discount.

 

[krisbarry]

Good views so far keep em comin'

 

[Jesse Livermore]

Hi krisbarry,

A tip for young people, don't go to university unless your desired career or business legally requires you. People need to create a distinction between education and training for knowledge and skills (which is not restricted to university) and education and training for qualifications.

Below is a list of successfull people that never went to, or never completed university:

Thomas Edison, Inventor
Bill Gates, Microsoft
Steve Jobs, Apple Computer
Michael Dell, Dell Computer
Jesse Livermore, Trader
Ted Turner, CNN
Brad Pitt, Actor
David Beckham, Soccer Player
Anthony Robbins, Authority on Peak Performance

This list could go on forever and is not restricted to fampous people.

Jesse Livermore

 

[Rockon2]

Spot On tech/a..

I read that article on Hecs debt.. And thought! What a load of codswallop and this could only be the view of labour! yep!,, right again..

 

[krisbarry]

Has the governement factored in the "Death Factor"?

Raising fees higher and higher will only increase the population of people that cannot afford to pay and die with this debt, hence the taxpayer is forced to cover that whole debt

Is the governemnt doing more harm than good?

Is it just artifically raising the debt levels of Australians, then writing this debt off at the other end of life (death)

 

[Happy]

Should be treated as every other expenditure: risk vs reward

If somebody had clear view where is going, would get there faster and reap the rewards paying and keeping the rest.
Reward here leaps over risk.

If somebody educated himself with hope that something will pop up, well some will get snatched (surprisingly as possible high reward for the company) and some won’t (will be not touched as considered too high risk).

With this attitude risk is just too high.

 

[krisbarry]

Should be treated as every other expenditure: risk vs reward

If somebody had clear view where is going, would get there faster and reap the rewards paying and keeping the rest.
Reward here leaps over risk.

If somebody educated himself with hope that something will pop up, well some will get snatched (surprisingly as possible high reward for the company) and some won’t (will be not touched as considered too high risk).

With this attitude risk is just too high.

Good view, I guess it does pose the question, is the risk (expense) worth the reward?

Maybe it has come down to the crunch now that many people will not go to uni as the debt levels are far beyond the rewards of a better paid job.

Plenty of non uni based jobs are paying far beyond that of Uni Graduates

 

[Knobby22]

There are some degrees that are not worth doing.
Maybe the Hecs fee will cause the students not to do it.
Unfortunately, I know someone who did a useless course and now has the Hecs debt. She has got a job in sales.

Too many people think they have to go to Uni even if it means doing a useless course. Parents and educators should be giving the students better informatiopn on their choices.

I would like to see a lot of improvements in the education system on all levels, particuarly in Victoria which is controlled by left wing concepts resulting in us having the worst results of all the states.

 

[krisbarry]

I guess its all well and good when you are 17-18 to sign your life away for a uni course and defer it to HECS, but it is not till a little later in life that you realise that you may be in a lot of debt.

I am sure all memebers of this board can think of a time in their late teens they made a foolish mistake and paid the price for it in their early 20's and maybe into their 30's.

Who has ever:

* Bought an over priced car,
* Bought a lemon of a car
* Got a credit card and went on a spending spree.
* Signed a mobile contract you really couldn't afford
* Bought a business and it went broke
* Loaned a friend or family member some money and never got it back
* Moved out of home and couldn't afford the rent and utilitiy bills.
* Bought some shares and lost money
* Had children, then got divorced, now have to pay maintenance
etc, etc

Yes we are all responsible for our actions but at what age? Latest reasearch suggest that we are not true adults until the age of 25. (Catalyst, ABC)

It's all in hindsight right!

The goverment has some blame in this, by offering youth so much credit, for education that it is unpayable by many, even over a life-time.

There are even new loan schemes that offer some students loans of up to $50,000, ouch now that has got to hurt the hip-pocket after graduation.

 

[tech/a]

And the alternative is?

On that list Kris.
There are a few of us who are old enough to not having had the temptation of credit cards when Young---there wern't any.

Other than that Ive done every one of your stuff ups!

My veiw is that Parents have a lot to answer for.

(1) Poor role models.
(2) Lack of interest in their kids future (selfish).
(3) Losing contact with their kids at an early age hence the communication breaks down.
(4) Lack of parental control---Once the respect for each other goes then there goes control.

This is in my veiw where it begins and ends.
Now if like you Kris you didnt have the above then its up to you to lead your own way!,and dont make the same mistakes with your kids.
You'll have a lot more to pass on than most---provided you dont dwell on it or focus on it!

Whare's that box.

 

[krisbarry]

And the alternative is?

On that list Kris.
There are a few of us who are old enough to not having had the temptation of credit cards when Young---there wern't any.

Other than that Ive done every one of your stuff ups!

My veiw is that Parents have a lot to answer for.

(1) Poor role models.
(2) Lack of interest in their kids future (selfish).
(3) Losing contact with their kids at an early age hence the communication breaks down.
(4) Lack of parental control---Once the respect for each other goes then there goes control.

This is in my veiw where it begins and ends.
Now if like you Kris you didnt have the above then its up to you to lead your own way!,and dont make the same mistakes with your kids.
You'll have a lot more to pass on than most---provided you dont dwell on it or focus on it!

Whare's that box.

Tech/a I was giving examples of foolish mistakes, not that I have made all of them, but of course I have made some of them

And yes you are absolutely correct in saying that parents have a lot to answer for. That is a very good point!

Poor teaching methods bring all sorts of social problems, one of which is a true lack of education which therefore leads to welfare dependancy.

 

[GreatPig]

I think you're all mostly just looking at this from one side: the point of view of the student. When you do that, then yes, it's easy to say why should they get something of benefit for nothing.

However, I think you also need to look at it from the point of view of the country. Australia, like any country, needs educated people: teachers, engineers, doctors, scientists, lawyers, etc. (okay... maybe not lawyers ). For those roles, tertiary qualifications are usually mandatory.

If Australia wants to consider itself a "smart" country, a player in the world of modern technology and science, etc, then I think it needs to encourage people to undertake tertiary qualifications, not discourage them. HECS is a major deterrent.

If people are penalised too heavily for undertaking tertiary studies, then the following will most likely result: either less people will take up tertiary studies, or more of those who do and end up with large HECS bills will move overseas (to avoid having to pay), creating a "brain drain".

Remember, educated people are an investment in a country's future. As with any investment, excessive taxes can kill it.

Cheers,
GP

 

[Joe Blow]

Remember, educated people are an investment in a country's future. As with any investment, excessive taxes can kill it.

GP... that's a great point. I think it's a shame that many people seem bitter about people seemingly "getting something for free" without being able to see the long term benefits for the country as a whole. In my opinion we have evolved into a very selfish, very suspicious and very resentful culture. We are taking after the US in this way. I have spent quite a bit of time over there and the conservatives can't stand the thought of the poor and underprivileged getting ANY assistance at all, and that includes medical and education. But at the same time, they don't mind spending a few hundred billion to wage a war on the other side of the planet.

In my opinion we're slowly losing our humanity and our sense of compassion and nobody seems to care.

 

[krisbarry]

HECS is now considered as another example of a hidden tax. Cutting funding, tending towards a user pay system

But the question still remains, can the users pay for that system or is the goverment just re-shuffling funds? Giving in one hand at a higher price and taking in the other hand at an even great price.

In earlier times it was fully funded by the government at a large cost to the taxpayer, but free for the user. The user of the system walked debt free to contribute to society and benefit all taxpayers without leaving his felow taxpayer to pay his/her debt for life.

Now the system is part goverment funded/part private funded. Users partially pay, or walk with a debt. which some pay by force(taxation), others pay by free will, and some do not pay at all. They either have not enough funds to pay, they move overseas,they die, or suicide.

Some of these HECS debts are well in the tens of thousand of dollars and will be inherited again by the taxpayer some 50-80 years down the track.

So if you are considering shooting your mouths of about the fact that the user should pay for their higher education, consider who is really paying for it. The user or the wage earner. It still begs the question?

Why increase the price of education and force more not to pay, isn't the goverment shooting the geese that lay the golden eggs.

 

[tech/a]

Tech/a I was giving examples of foolish mistakes, not that I have made all of them, but of course I have made some of them

And yes you are absolutely correct in saying that parents have a lot to answer for. That is a very good point!

Poor teaching methods bring all sorts of social problems, one of which is a true lack of education which therefore leads to welfare dependancy.

Well I must have made more mistakes than most!!

You've won me on the teaching issues as well!! Good heavens--common ground!

I really think again that lack of RESPECT for one another Kids and Teachers is the seed for total and perminent breakdown.

A story.

I was in 2nd year high, Ayre's had just spent recess time stiking a box cutter into my bike tyres---he didn't know it was my bike its something he did to amuse himself!
Just before the siren for end of recess I found Ayres at it.
I was physically in discussion with Ayres when Morley our Science teacher
found me deep in discussion.
In front of the whole class he grabbed me by the neck and literally threw me towards the end of the building--(These days he would have been expelled as a teacher--the Education department is full of whimps!).

Class was amused to see me being humiliated.
Morely told me to wait--.
He went and set the class at it.
He then came to me and told me to walk I did and turned left toward the headmasters office expecting ANOTHER dose of the cuts!
He said "Where do you think your going?"

With that he pointed to the oval.
What happened next I have never forgotten.

He put his arm around me (Over the shoulders and said "OK somethings set you off tell me all about it.") He spent the whole lesson talking with me!

Do you reckon I had respect for that guy--You bet.
Do you think I learnt a valuable lesson from his kindness---You bet.
Do you think its influenced the way I handle people---you guessed it --you bet!
You have it right Kris in this area.

 

[Knobby22]

I think fully paid places for people is wrong. This mean there are less Hecs places for everyone and advantages the wealthy who are already advantaged by having better schools. I don't know why Labor didn't run with this last election instead of that stupid private school thing.

I think there is some justification for Hecs, the amount should be reasonable though.

 

[Joe Blow]

I think there is some justification for Hecs, the amount should be reasonable though.

Agreed Knobby. Paying for something out of your own pocket does make people appreciate it more but it should be reasonable.