Garpal Gumnut
Ross Island Hotel
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- 2 January 2006
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Their investment concept as much as I can glean was to
margin on margin
pyramid as the bull market moved up
not to have appropriate stop losses.
Fountains in the vestibule, fancy dunnies with gold plated handles and a qualification in Financial Advice does not make for a safe harbour for one's hardearned money.
The money is gone.
Gone with the bear, through a zillion zeros and ones on thousands of computers.
All the junk law and prayer will not bring it back.
Banning financial advisers would seem the way to go.
Just ban the whole lot of em.
gg
As far as I can tell it is/was this:
Start off with relatively manageable leverage of 50% (against the margin loan) - this would be determined by serviceability. Interest payments for the equity loan and margin loan are drawn from the CMT account. The fee would be borrowed from the equity loan.
This may be from an equity loan, superannaution (if old enough to access), possible from the sale of other investments you may have. The initial amount borrowed would 80% (approx.) be placed into investments and the remaining 20% (approx.) would be placed into a Cash Management Trust (CMT) account.
The tax return from the investment loan are directed to the CMT to help service debt, as well as whatever surplus you currently have in your budget.
From here let the market do its thing (ie go up). Once it has gone up ... say 10% ... sell the profit to the CMT. This will help with future interest payments, and will allow you to gear the rest back into the market (for a fee). Generally done 2:1, for every dollar of cash borrow two dollars from the margin loan to maintain the current margin loan ratio.
This is done progressively to churn the fees out of you (which are also borrowed).
In future years, prepay the interest on the Margin Loan from the CMT account.
Rinse and repeat.
Soon, the investment needs to grow by double digit percentages per annum just to afford the interest bill.
Not only this, but the retirees that were geared, were also drawing income from the CMT - taking them closer and closer to a margin call ... Not very sustainable, unless you're in a never-ending bull market.
I think the problem was that Storm allowed the Margin Loan LVR to dictate the investment strategy, not taking into account other debt (equity loans) that clients had. Which is why so many are now in negative equity positions.
Anyone feel free to point out where I'm wrong or ask for clarification.
There's been a bit of talk about the psychology of going with storm so I thought I'd explain how I found myself with them...
I first went to storm and did the education seminars around the time of semptember 11. I was actually in there a day or two after and can remember them running around madly organising clients to throw their money into the market. I then moved away, bought a second house (did really well!).
Had always written them off as too higher fees etc. Was always going to invest directly myself through a direct investment firm like neville ward or commsec direct and save myself commissions. I moved back to townsville in 2006 and only owed $55k on my $450K home at the age of 32. I had a bit of opportunity cost guilt at the rampant gains of the sharemarket over the last few years, and felt quite negative about my super situation as I had been in the military and had a preserved benifit that was locked away and I had to start my private sector super from scratch. I also had relations invested with DalleCourt (same sort of strategy, although perhaps not as aggressive) who had done well.
Coming from Townsville I of course knew people who were with them but had also heard friend of a freind bad reports. These were always vague and I pushed them aside as the usual fear when it comes to this sort of thing. Storm kept creeping back into my consciousness. I went to sydney and noticed that they had spread down there (logo on some big highrise in the city). A cabdriver in cairns waxing lyrical about how good they were, a youngish fellow on a fishing trip retired and living the good life etc.
Eventually I went back and decided that if I was going to gear then I wasn't going to do it alone as I had neither the time nor the stomach for it. I had heard that storm was the biggest single customer of commonwealth margin lending in australia and that they didn't even deal exclusivley with them. I took faith in this and that they had been around in townsville for quite a long time, and they had made a lot of people wealthy. The fact is in townsville a lot of people with money were with them and it gave them some sort of implied credability.
Also 7 percent up front didn't seem quite so bad when you were geared and could easilly hop over the fee step in a rising market (showed us graphs of other investors results) compared with the 4 percent a bank adviser wanted for parrot regurgitating what fund their investment arm said was a buy.
Anyway I can't kick myself forever over one bad decision. I consider myself fortunate in that I am still young, have a higher than average income, can still invest some money into the sharemarket and will be able to rebuild. I had to shut everything down myself (storm wanted me to stick around geared at over 90 percent). I certainly would have stop loss coverted to cash beforehand if I had known of my situation, but had placed my faith in them as I had paid lots of money for them to be my guide, and trusted that they had dealt with situation like this before. If I was a retiree then I would certainly look at bankruptcy. There are worse things. For all those who quote greed etc - I dont beleive I am greedy. The oldies I see in the waiting rooms there are not flashy or extravagent for the most part. They just saw a (formerly) successfull firm and thought they were doing the best thing for themselves.
Imagine now owing a huge sum before you are back to having nothing. Renting, paying off a margin loan with no asset before you can then save to buy a house. Now imagine if your'e 60. For storm to quote retiree's positions as selling their houses and living in caravan's as "not that bad" or blaming the market is just plain wrong. To be a storm client they made you fill out a risk profile and would only take you if you fell into the low risk category! Marriages will be broken not just now, but in decades to come as financial hardship eats away at peoples happiness.
I hope the advisers have trouble sleeping, not for peolpe like me, but the retirees.
There is a retraction of sorts by Storm in today's Townsville Bulletin of comments made about the initial Storm spin on litigation proceedings between it (Storm ) and CBA-Colonial.
gg
gg is there a noticable vibe in Townsville that there are significant issues that are caused by the Storm crisis?
Are many people really impacted ? Are businesses in trouble..etc ?
Me being so far away from this, it's just a "Storm" in a tea cup in my neck of the woods.....
Chris, you've done everything you can. Sometimes you can't save people from themselves.I recommended that they seek independant advice, I have no idea how they will get out of this. Maybe they know something I don't.
To me their belief in Storm is almost religious :fish:, now I'm starting to see why things started to go wobbly.
chris
I hadn't realised Storm's tentacles had spread so far. Awful.To my knowledge there are 4 different groups affected by Storm in Townsville.
1. People like myusernam who are young and working and have lost a lot, in secure jobs eg Public Service/ Army, who will recover.
2. Retirees, near retirees who have lost a lot and won't recover. They will have to sell their homes and live on a pension in rented accomodation.
3. A large number of folk from 1 and 2 who have lost a moderate amount e.g. $40-80,000 whom it won't affect.
4. The very rich, major business people in the region, farmers and "identities" about the area who are geared up to their gills. They will lose the lot, farms, businesses, reputations.
They reckon it will have the same effect on the region as if all tourism stopped for 12 months.
Sorry I cannot be more specific.
gg
To my knowledge there are 4 different groups affected by Storm in Townsville.
1. People like myusernam who are young and working and have lost a lot, in secure jobs eg Public Service/ Army, who will recover.
2. Retirees, near retirees who have lost a lot and won't recover. They will have to sell their homes and live on a pension in rented accomodation.
3. A large number of folk from 1 and 2 who have lost a moderate amount e.g. $40-80,000 whom it won't affect.
4. The very rich, major business people in the region, farmers and "identities" about the area who are geared up to their gills. They will lose the lot, farms, businesses, reputations.
They reckon it will have the same effect on the region as if all tourism stopped for 12 months.
Sorry I cannot be more specific.
gg
GG, from reading your posts you seem pretty knowledgable. What do you think will happen to the property market in Townsville, And have you seen any properties come onto the market yet from this storm fallout?
Why are there so many facing margin calls, losing houses and ruin?
Are you saying it's all Colonial's fault?
My Financial Adviser isn't making headlines in the media......
I suggest you seek another opinion from another financial professional.
Storm has 13500 clients with only 200 affected.
Not a bad % in this sub prime mess dont you think? Which is quoted from the Asic website and they still have found no problems with storms model.
You guys realy have no idea do you?
Its called fear of the unknown & you dont know nothing about Storm do you?
hello,
spot on mrfmad,
people read a few blogs and they are a professor on Storm, property, sub-prime, investment banking etc etc yet still pulling money box incomes
thankyou
robots
Storm has 13500 clients with only 200 affected.
Not a bad % in this sub prime mess dont you think? Which is quoted from the Asic website and they still have found no problems with storms model.
You guys realy have no idea do you?
Its called fear of the unknown & you dont know nothing about Storm do you?
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