Storm Financial Group

Julia said:

Who watched the '60 Minutes' programme on Storm? What did you think?

It reminded me why I usually take pains to avoid this programme, along with most commercial television.

The reporter did a great job of putting words into the mouths of investors vis a vis the push polling that goes on in surveys for political parties.

That aside, I'm really sorry for the people who clearly were not amongst the greedy and whose lives have been so utterly devastated.

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I agree Julia, that was a very poor report. There was no real information just alot of finger pointing at the banks and Storm. The reporter was very poor, imo.
That sort of cr@p belongs more on ACA then 60min.

EC What a dumbass pr!c...........

I like the part where he explains the Claytons loan in the 60 mins report.

" its a loan you have when you dont really have a loan, good debt, someone who borrows for consumption is bad, but borrowing for a house is good"...


I went againsr Storms advise and bought a house, Ec was dead against property, and that the only way you should ever buy a house is with cash from your investment, until then all monies should flow there...

I actually recieved a letter saying that this decision to buy a house was not supported by storm, and will be the ruin of my future, Now is that scare mongering or what?

I put 25% deposit on my home, and it did not effect my contributions to the investment at all, thank christ I did not take his advice and put it in the market!!!!

EC.... Your a d!ck!!!

Just watched 60 minutes on U Tube, the show is still not worth watching.
Storm, what a sales man, 7% up front, he was getting up to $2oo,ooo on a single sale. As to the wood ducks, have you not been told about a balanced portfolio??. I will bet you that the same lot will now dump money in to a fighting fund to take on the banks.

IMO this whole debacle is fear, greed and stupidity all round.

Fear - mainly on the part of Storms clients, fear of missing out, fear of not having enough money to retire on. This fear was taken advantage of by Storm.

Greed - On the part of everyone imo. Storm and the banks obviously but also storm clients who saw $$$ signs rolling in front of thier eyes and all commonsense went out the window.

Stupidity - Again all round. How Storm and especially the banks didn't think this would eventually end badly is beyond me, truly stupid. The banks probably did realise it would eventually end badly but due to the risks of margin loans being in their favour probably just didn't care and fleeced what they could while they could (greed again) but they could still lose out due to the amount of debt outstanding, so still stupid in my book.
The clients to a lesser degree were also stupid imo, where was the due dilligence? Where was the commonsense, that if you leverage yourself and assets to the hilt there are risks involved? They can cry foul all they want but any sort of research or risk management on their part would have saved them alot of heartache. After all it is their money and they are responsible for it. I understand they were "conned" and sweet talked into these set ups but it was still their responsibility to understand the risks involved.

my , flame away.

Smiley said:

If stormified clients take on CBS or BOQ and lose they will be up for legal fees, though one can acquire insurance for such a possibility.

Nothing has happened yet and it will be interesting to see if anyone gets compensation through legal channels.

I take full responsibility for taking their advice; have always budgeted and did not act out of fear but because there were supposed to be trigger points to safeguard us and thought I could thus supplement the pension. I did ask and was told that I would always be taken out to cover the house mortgage. We could have gotten back into the market without fees (as owned brokerage) but Storm did not do . . .

Personally, time to refinance, move on psychologically, emotionally and plan ways to live on the aged pension in a few years as a result of this catastrophe . . .


Here is a good link for range of loans - all banks listed with up to date rates:

http://www.canstar.com.au/

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Smiley

Your philosophical, honest and realistic attitude are to be admired.
No moaning or ranting from you, just a willingness to roll up your sleeves and get on with life.
With such an outlook I have no doubt you'll lead a fulfilling life irrespective of your financial situation.
I wish you well.

Smiley said:

there were supposed to be trigger points to safeguard us and thought I could thus supplement the pension. I did ask and was told that I would always be taken out to cover the house mortgage. We could have gotten back into the market without fees (as owned brokerage) but Storm did not do . . .

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Storm did not have the balls to make the hard decisions when required. .............

What if the markets rose right after we recommend everyone to sell their portfolio's?

There's that Storm crowd "they chose to sell out at the very bottom of the market... Idiots! .... When the markets down you buy, not sell, but they chose to sell at the very bottom! Ha ... idiots"

If the banks hadn't of made their decision to sell, I wonder if Storm would have ever recommended to it's clients to sell!
The markets are lower in value now than late last year.

MR. said:

Storm did not have the balls to make the hard decisions when required. .............

What if the markets rose right after we recommend everyone to sell their portfolio's?

There's that Storm crowd "they chose to sell out at the very bottom of the market... Idiots! .... When the markets down you buy, not sell, but they chose to sell at the very bottom! Ha ... idiots"

If the banks hadn't of made their decision to sell, I wonder if Storm would have ever recommended to it's clients to sell!
The markets are lower in value now than late last year.

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From what I understand if Storm advised people to sell out of the market then Storms income would be Nil, instead they brought in at the market dips then topped up the loans as the market increased just before it went lower again, in which case they would repeat the process more commissions and fatter pay checks for EC. Storm did recommend that investors switch to cash in October last year but the damaged had already been done, I just watch the 60 minutes story there is some familiar faces there, cant believe they were caught up in this don't think they are greedy as some people have claimed just incredibly gullible.
EC should do jail time for this.

bunyip said:

Smiley

Your philosophical, honest and realistic attitude are to be admired.
No moaning or ranting from you, just a willingness to roll up your sleeves and get on with life.
With such an outlook I have no doubt you'll lead a fulfilling life irrespective of your financial situation.
I wish you well.

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I couldn't agree more. Great attitude, Smiley. Every best wish to you.

The following is an article from yesterday's "Sunday Mail".

Storm Financial Founders Emmanuel and Julie Cassimatis will be called before a parliamentary inquiry into financial collapses that have cost investors their life savings.

The nine month investigation by the joint committee on corporation and financial services will examine what measures are needed to protect investors from massive failures such as those involving Storm, MFS and Opes Prime in the past year.

Committee chairman, Oxley MP Bernie Ripoll, said while they could not be subpoenaed key stakeholders such as the Cassimatises and executives of other companies would be invited, and expected, to appear at hearings.

He also confirmed that banks would be included in the inquiry.

Submissions to the inquiry close on July 31, but people are encouraged to get them in as soon as possible as public hearings will begin before then. Submissions should be sent tl:
corporations.joint@aph.gov.au

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Solly said:

I watched the 60 minutes story & have read the response from the CBA.
I'd would never have invested in Storm but that's only as a result my past experiences. Storm's modus operandi would never have passed my smell test.
Two things that I observed tonight were the naivety of Storm clients and the utter disbelief from EC that it all came unstuck. All very sad.

Don't be too hard on yourself, I bet there's many people on these forums, including me that have made major fark ups and could proudly were the Dumbass tag for past less than successful actions and decisions. It doesn't matter what others think about what's happened to you and the other ex clients, it's irrelevant. The only thing that really matters is to seek a remedy that's acceptable to you, keep moving forward, keep your nose up and never, never, never stop until you reach that point.


The three most useless things after you've pass V1 and rotate are the altitude above you, the runway behind you, and a tenth of a second ago.

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Thanks Solly

Isnt that funny my husband and i was only saying just the other day that the only posts on here worth listening to or reading are yours.

We can only follow the facts. Everyone else has so much knowledge on here about Storm model its amazing.
Actualy pretty much what ever they have written is often very wrong or just a get the client for stupidity & EC for being a Scase.

But I was gassed with oxygen and greed overwhelmed ME,
I asked MY cult if I could have a free holiday as it took them months of sales pitches and wear and tear on me to join.

I had no knowledge of what I was doing so storm tricked me and asked me to take all my plans and documents for another opinion anywhere that I wanted. What a con.

Then they diddnt even hassle me to join this hurt my ego as they hassled everyone else.

Maybe I was blown away by those huge fees and couldnt add up how much that would cost me in the future as I was dumb.

When I left for my holiday stress started to set in and MY useless computer data at the commonwealth bank was 2 days old So MY bank couldnt direct me properly & it was all MY fault. I needed to send them new software.

Then boss EC came along and said we will all convert to cash until market stabilises WOW what a stupid idea! he had converting to cash LOL BWAAAAAAH. We signed peperwork to do this immediately.

Then I failed to hand deliver my paperwork into the bank personaly myself. So my paperwork with storm to sell never went through at all with MY bank until I was in margin call.

Actualy I asked my bank to let me please go over margin another 20% so I can lose some more money. They obliged.

I then asked them now I am more than 20% over margin please be greedy or feel free to take it. Or now make the call.

As my bank document said it would be sold regardless if i met margin. But hey I could controll the banks.

Remember MY bank details was 2 days old or more as I had failed to update my banks computer programme. With the market fluctuating what an idiot I was to not to know I was getting into margin. How foolish of me.

Then my mate ASIC came along and helped me by freezing all advice so more margins calls could go through. They decided this would help me out a bit.

With no money being made from EC, who cannot legally give advice for the next couple of months. My company which i controlled was sent into liquidation. Thanks ASIC & a bank selling out its own people.

I was then left in Limbo to watch MY money disappear and guess what?
I am now called Brainwashed Stupid Greedy and MY bank is now a winner.

So where is your common sense guys.
Think about it Why would someone send their own company that they have hundreds of millions invested in into financial ruin.? Oh thats right they did it for the 2 mil dividend.

Now I get to hear how you all knew what they and I was doing all along and how much of a scam etc
Come on guys some people are seriously hurting.
Some people have been seriously misslead & ripped off by EC.

Do you know everyone has their own way of making money and every person would disagree in a room on how to do it?
I believe most people who buy property portfolios leverage from equity in their own home, or even to purchase a business etc. Its called using the banks money to make money. Yes when the wheels fall off you loose your home.

Many of us have done this lately actualy people have been buying boats, cars, toys riding the boom. I have not done this ever. Nor would I.
Perhaps its those people above who have spent endless credit card $ and now cannot pay that have put the economy in this situation.

Its just an opinion which is like a bum hole everyone has one.

Thank you Solly for your words. You are a very kind & helpful poster.
I am already back in the market using Storms model the way it should have been used. Yes my paper loss is big but I have all my chickens. Which means I will recover as soon as the market does. I have learned some valuable lessons & will make sure this never happens again.

This time I am at the stern not EC & I will rise above this and move on.

mrfmad said:

Thanks Solly

Isnt that funny my husband and i was only saying just the other day that the only posts on here worth listening to or reading are yours.

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Nice to know where we all stand. Happy to have waisted my time here.

Good day!

MR. said:

Nice to know where we all stand. Happy to have waisted my time here.

Good day!

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This post was not meant to be offensive to you MR or other posters with useful info.
Solly just happened to stand out AAA from the rest this is a forum isnt it? I thought a discussion not a dissing match was a fair point.

Why is it that forums all end up like this. Where if you post just a view & I very seldom do, you get a bite. But when you dont post at all you get told that not contributing to forums & only read posts you get a bite.

Please except my humble apologies MR

mrfmad said:

.
....... this is a forum isnt it? I thought a discussion not a dissing match was a fair point.

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That is an excellent point. Yes, it is definitely a forum. It is not a support group.

A stock market forum is a venue where members with coinciding and different views have the opportunity to express these views, in the knowledge that anything we put up will be subject to assessment, then either support or criticism by other members.

You and some others have interpreted objective commentary - and even similarly objective warnings about the possibility of being taken for yet another ride by S. & G. - as personal criticism.

You might like to consider reading through some threads other than Storm's so you can see that a robust exchange is the norm.

I'm really a bit confused about why you and some other Storm investors are continuing to post on this site when you are so unhappy with the commentary you've provoked (apart from Solly, of course.)
There must be heaps of Storm support groups flourishing by now.

The above is just intended to be a rational response to your post which I did find a bit hard to follow. It's not intended as criticism. I wish you well in whatever you decide to do.

mrfmad said:

This post was not meant to be offensive to you MR or other posters with useful info.
Solly just happened to stand out AAA from the rest this is a forum isnt it? I thought a discussion not a dissing match was a fair point.

Why is it that forums all end up like this. Where if you post just a view & I very seldom do, you get a bite. But when you dont post at all you get told that not contributing to forums & only read posts you get a bite.

Please except my humble apologies MR

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Well now, I wonder if I'll get an apology as well? If my memory is correct it was only yesterday that you told me - 'Oh and by the way i couldnt agree with your post more.'

More than 1300 posts have been sent into this Storm thread so far. I've read all of them - have you?
I ask this question because of your statement that you and you husband regard only Solly's posts as being worth reading.
Maybe if you and your husband were to dig a little deeper you'd find that some of the posters are a lot more genuine and helpful and caring than you think.

Sure, there are people on here who have displayed very narrow-minded and unhelpful views by putting 100% of the blame on Storm victims, and show not the slightest empathy for the dreadful situation you find yourselves in.

But at the other end of the scale there have been many people apart from Solly who have offered encouragement, constructive but fair criticism, balanced viewpoints, helpful advice, and have openly stated that they feel genuinely sorry for your plight.

Surely these people deserve a little better from you than an emotional outburst that pretty much tells them they're a waste of time.

Julia makes a good point......this forum is not a support group, but rather, its objective is to provide a venue where members with coinciding and different views have the opportunity to express these views, in the knowledge that anything they put up will be subject to assessment, then either support or criticism by other members.

If these objectives are not to your liking, nobody is forcing you to stay on this forum. Indeed, there would seem little point in you doing so if you feel that pretty much everyone except Solly is a fool who's having a go at you.

"Regulators probe anomalies in bank information to Storm Financial clients"

Here is a story from a few days ago that was sent to me by an ex Storm client.
Some interesting claims about over inflated incomes on the bank loan documents.

I wonder who filled out the income details and when were these details inserted in the documents ?

And at what stage of "completness" did the clients sign these applications?

Tony Raggatt's Townsville Bulletin article is here.

http://http://www.townsvillebulletin.com.au/article/2009/02/28/41771_hpnews.html

Solly said:

"Regulators probe anomalies in bank information to Storm Financial clients"

Here is a story from a few days ago that was sent to me by an ex Storm client.
Some interesting claims about over inflated incomes on the bank loan documents.

I wonder who filled out the income details and when were these details inserted in the documents ?

And at what stage of "completness" did the clients sign these applications?

Tony Raggatt's Townsville Bulletin article is here.

http://http://www.townsvillebulletin.com.au/article/2009/02/28/41771_hpnews.html

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One of the women interviewed on Sixty Minutes said Storm told her to just sign the loan application documents and they'd fill in the details.
Almost unbelievably, she did so, clearly having no understanding of the level of risk you take when you sign something without being fully aware of what you're signing.
No wonder she got taken for a ride by having a high monthly income inserted in the documentation!
However, I can't imagine why the bank would not verify the income before lending the money. It's certainly not to their benefit to lend money to someone who can't service the loan, and then have to foreclose on that client a bit further down the track. Foreclosures don't always recoup what the bank is owed.

Another Stormer who apparently had little understanding of the risk he was taking was the bloke on Sixty Minutes who took a 2 million dollar loan on an income of 26 grand. He expressed surprise that the bank had granted him such a large loan, given his low income.
Yet he took the loan anyway, obviously giving little or no thought as to how he'd meet the loan commitments with an income that was barely enough to live on.
The question is, WHY? Why would anyone, no matter how lacking they were in investment savvy, take a 2 million loan on a low income, without knowing how they'd pay back the loan or meet the interest?
Why would they do that? It just doesn't make sense.

http://www.townsvillebulletin.com.au/article/2009/03/02/42135_news.html

Townsville's top suburb has hit the big time by coming second in a list of Queensland's most elite suburbs.

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The controversial downfall of failed Townsville-based investment group Storm Financial is most likely behind the suburb's startling rise, according to Real Estate Institute of Queensland chairman Peter McGrath.

"Castle Hill is the number one spot in Townsville and where many wealthy residents choose to live, but with the unfortunate demise of Storm Financial, many of those people have been forced to sell," he said.

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So did Storm clients purchase up there based on unrealised gains or ... ? any current clients care to comment ?

"We do know that there are people in that area that are Storm clients and will probably have to sell," he said.

"The good news is they will probably be the beneficiaries of that growth but they're certainly not going to get the prices that they were getting 12 months ago.

"That's the cold, hard reality of it."

Mr Ramm said the prospects for further growth remained good thanks to a lack of land with similarly spectacular views and status.

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bunyip said:

Well now, I wonder if I'll get an apology as well? If my memory is correct it was only yesterday that you told me - 'Oh and by the way i couldnt agree with your post more.'

More than 1300 posts have been sent into this Storm thread so far. I've read all of them - have you?
I ask this question because of your statement that you and you husband regard only Solly's posts as being worth reading.
Maybe if you and your husband were to dig a little deeper you'd find that some of the posters are a lot more genuine and helpful and caring than you think.

Sure, there are people on here who have displayed very narrow-minded and unhelpful views by putting 100% of the blame on Storm victims, and show not the slightest empathy for the dreadful situation you find yourselves in.

But at the other end of the scale there have been many people apart from Solly who have offered encouragement, constructive but fair criticism, balanced viewpoints, helpful advice, and have openly stated that they feel genuinely sorry for your plight.

Surely these people deserve a little better from you than an emotional outburst that pretty much tells them they're a waste of time.

Julia makes a good point......this forum is not a support group, but rather, its objective is to provide a venue where members with coinciding and different views have the opportunity to express these views, in the knowledge that anything they put up will be subject to assessment, then either support or criticism by other members.

If these objectives are not to your liking, nobody is forcing you to stay on this forum. Indeed, there would seem little point in you doing so if you feel that pretty much everyone except Solly is a fool who's having a go at you.

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No because it was still full of wrong information. Hense my Funny response about my Storm experience. But you were entitiled to your opinion.
So Im not sure what id be saying sorry to you for???

Julia said:

That is an excellent point. Yes, it is definitely a forum. It is not a support group.

A stock market forum is a venue where members with coinciding and different views have the opportunity to express these views, in the knowledge that anything we put up will be subject to assessment, then either support or criticism by other members.

You and some others have interpreted objective commentary - and even similarly objective warnings about the possibility of being taken for yet another ride by S. & G. - as personal criticism.

You might like to consider reading through some threads other than Storm's so you can see that a robust exchange is the norm.

I'm really a bit confused about why you and some other Storm investors are continuing to post on this site when you are so unhappy with the commentary you've provoked (apart from Solly, of course.)
There must be heaps of Storm support groups flourishing by now.

The above is just intended to be a rational response to your post which I did find a bit hard to follow. It's not intended as criticism. I wish you well in whatever you decide to do.

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Thanks I will take that on board.

Sorry for posting above and to all it has offended.

Forgive me after reading post after post of incorrect information I just couldnt help myself anymore & had to post the above. So far Media ie 60 min etc have done the crappiest interviews all information is get EC & Storm clients knew nothing. The people they gather up for their interviews would have to be of the lower education class this is why they would spit in his face, didnt know how they were going to pay for it etc. We many intelligent people got caught up in this & it would be lovely for the clients if people could see the real picture as the bank did fold on the client.

I was not conned with a sales pitch by EC, my documents were pure with correct wages, I knew how the loan was going to be paid. So someone is not telling the truth.
So I come on here & read about all stocks along with many other stock forums. I am also a day trader & in an investment club. So i guess i am saying no im not on here for a storm support group, nor do i need one.

I just think that some others Storm members who do need help dont need to read how they were greedy, stupid, no common sense etc as something happened to them that was out of their control.
I dont think i could have such an opinion unless i had the facts to call people names when there is a far bigger picture to the model than a forum member would know.
It has now grown to a chineese whisper not a forum if you get what i mean.

Again i thank you for your post.

As i said before i never post & will return back to reading forums.
I await the backlash for my opinion.

Sorry to the Storm people for your loss & hope it turns around soon for you.
Sorry for offending so many on the forum.

mrfmad said:

Thanks Solly

Isnt that funny my husband and i was only saying just the other day that the only posts on here worth listening to or reading are yours.

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My point is all posts are worth reading. Someone has taken the time to write the post. You don't have to agree with them and many I do not. I still read them looking for information which might help me. Agree Solly has done a terrific job here.

mrfmad said:

I am already back in the market using Storms model the way it should have been used.

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IMO, I still see danger here. Hope you're not leveraged in the market looking for the market to rise! Short maybe? But that's a fair risk as well. However perhaps the next person will disagree with me and agree with you. Well this is my backlash no....... feed back. I don't mind at all being wrong. Just my opinion.

mrfmad said:

As i said before i never post & will return back to reading forums.
I await the backlash for my opinion.

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It appears that EC & JC are not happy with the 60 Minutes Story......

Check out the latest on
cassimatis.com.au.


(The Wilkinson Media site states that Peter Wilkinson is an ex-Reporter/Producer for 60 Minutes.)