Stop Loss Question

[pacer]

Still not the right answer!....come on someone must know!

 

[Red-Devil]

You dont set a limit on a stop loss its called slippage.

slippage or trigger price doesn't matter - 2 different names for the same thing.

commsec stop loss inputs ask for a trigger price and limit price as inputs.

 

[wayneL]

Still not the right answer!....come on someone must know!

Could be a dirty tick pacer.

Just a mistake in the data transmission, it happens all the time.

 

[cuttlefish]

If you've got the opportunity to use a discretional approach then GP's approach can work i've found - i.e. trigger hit - set limit order rather than market order - if lucky the market will come back up and take out your your stop a lot of the time. Should still have a money management limit where you cut regardless. I think this approach can help to protect against stop farming and also protects against hitting the bid rather than sitting at the top of the offer queue.

 

[GreatPig]

then GP's approach can work

It's not my approach. I just stated what Etrade allows.

Cheers,
GP

 

[cuttlefish]

Sorry GP - I recalled you saying once that on stops you don't always just selll at market but will put a limit on them sometimes. I've tried both and think that the limit approach can work on a discretionary basis depending on volatility.

 

[GreatPig]

I recalled you saying once that on stops you don't always just selll at market but will put a limit on them sometimes.

Okay, I think we're getting a bit mixed up here.

I've never used automatic stop/loss orders, but do typically buy & sell shares at limit rather than at market. But that's a different "limit" to the one used with stop/loss orders (at least I think it is).

Cheers,
GP

 

[maffu]

Comsecs Conditional Trading Fee's are:

1. You can elect to pay an "Up front" Conditional Trading fee of $9.95^ plus standard brokerage if your order trades. You pay the "Up front" fee regardless whether your order trades; or
2. You can choose to pay "On execution" of the order and only pay $14.95^ plus standard brokerage when an order trades. You do not pay the "On execution" fee if no part of your order is executed.

Is this a similar pricing structure to other brokers?
Im yet to use Stop Losses but understand the value of using them, im guessing that the On Execution fee's while more expencive I will use less so will be the cheaper option. What choice do the rest of you make?

 

[stargazer]

Hi

Gee and i thought i was clear well clearer perhaps.
Just to recap from waht other posters have contributed:

XYZ bought at 2.00

Trigger: 1.85

Limit: 1.80

next day opens at 1.65

During the day reaches 1.80 is then sold (Is this correct)

Stock continues to 2.10

Now is stock sold only when the price is coming down or is it sold even if it comes from a position of lower than the limit price.

I am with E trade
Pacer do you use the pro version which i tink you get free if you trade enough douring the month. OR

The standard one which seems to have basic capabilities that i am aware of anyway.

Cheers
SG

cheers
SG

 

[cuttlefish]

Pretty sure the rules are straightforward (I use comsec not etrade but should be the same). Any trade that occurs at a price below the stop loss trigger price will cause a sell order to be placed - and it will be placed at the specified limit (not the trigger price but the limit price). The order will then remain there unless filled or manually cancelled.

So if it gapped down below both the stop loss price and the limit price - the order would be placed (because the stock traded below the stoploss trigger price of 1.85). The placed order would be at the limit price (i.e. sell at 1.80) and will remain there until filled or manually cancelled - so yes if the price starts to move up again and reaches 1.80 the order will be executed unless manually cancelled in the meantime.

 

[alankew]

Variation on the stop loss question.The last couple of days i ahve been stopped out of KZL and ZFX which i am dissapointed about as its pretty obvious they are going to carry on going up for a while yet.I bought both via CFDs and the prices i paid were ZFX 3 lots at 14.12,14.70 and 14.76 and also KZL at 6.83,6.87,and 6.90.The ZFX got stopped at open today at 15.02 and KZL at 7.50.I trailed up my stop but does anyone think i could have played it differently.In particular i think i should have removed the stop on ZFX until the opening had settled down.Still made decent money but whats your opinion?

 

[Space Cadet]

Hi

Gee and i thought i was clear well clearer perhaps.
Just to recap from waht other posters have contributed:

XYZ bought at 2.00

Trigger: 1.85

Limit: 1.80

next day opens at 1.65

During the day reaches 1.80 is then sold (Is this correct)

Stock continues to 2.10

Now is stock sold only when the price is coming down or is it sold even if it comes from a position of lower than the limit price.

I am with E trade
Pacer do you use the pro version which i tink you get free if you trade enough douring the month. OR

The standard one which seems to have basic capabilities that i am aware of anyway.

Cheers
SG

cheers
SG

"During the day reaches 1.80 is then sold (Is this correct)"

yes this is correct - the share price can bob up and down like that proverbial cork in the ocean as much as it likes below 1.80, but if that cork manages to bob up to 1.80 then the sell order will be executed, provided of course that there is sufficient buyer volume to reach your order in the queue at 1.80.

If the cork rises above 1.80 then your order is definitely executed regardless of where it is in the queue at 1.80

 

[Realist]

Variation on the stop loss question.The last couple of days i ahve been stopped out of KZL and ZFX which i am dissapointed about as its pretty obvious they are going to carry on going up for a while yet.I bought both via CFDs and the prices i paid were ZFX 3 lots at 14.12,14.70 and 14.76 and also KZL at 6.83,6.87,and 6.90.The ZFX got stopped at open today at 15.02 and KZL at 7.50.I trailed up my stop but does anyone think i could have played it differently.In particular i think i should have removed the stop on ZFX until the opening had settled down.Still made decent money but whats your opinion?

Trailing stop losses will often pull you out of good trades.

They'll save your ass on bad trades though.

I choose not to use them.

Others always use them.

All I can say is keep a tab of how your stops go, and adjust your strategy accordingly. They sound too tight to me though.

 

[alankew]

Realist thanks for the reply..Dissapointed to get stopped out but i did make pretty good money.What price do you think they should have been at,and by the way get packing and watch out for those POMs,England is full of em(Im one)

 

[Realist]

Realist thanks for the reply..Dissapointed to get stopped out but i did make pretty good money.What price do you think they should have been at,and by the way get packing and watch out for those POMs,England is full of em(Im one)

Hmm I've got alot of packing to do, I fly out today!!

RE: stop losses, All I'd say is don't just stop yourself out of something without thinking about it first.

I don't believe stop losses are just about numbers. ZFX is obviously not gonna go under overnight, (someone say Pasminco? hehe) it has huge cash reserves and is making huge profits, its mine life is a worry though, but Zinc will in all likelihood remain high for a while. It is a solid investment and its PER is very low.

Give it a chance to grow. Don't let one bad day affect your decision.

But it is different with CFD's - hmm I never use them, but you are leveraged with interest, so to get out with a profit is a good effort, be happy with what you got!

 

[wayneL]

More confusion here between investors and traders.

A trader might not give fat rats about the p/e or mine life or whatever.

But that trader must decide what time frame he/she is trading. If you're dissappointed that you were stopped out, that means your stop is too tight for your time frame.

You'll catch bigger trends, but the trade off is bigger losses/giving back profit.

 

[tech/a]

You'll catch bigger trends, but the trade off is bigger losses/giving back profit.

Another way to attack this is to use less leverage or smaller parcel sizes to deminish risk.

This Risk Mitigation and NOT profit when taking a trade and the profits WILL come.
Think Profit before Risk and the losses WILL come.

 

[Out Too Soon]

I'm trying to make my very first stop loss order using Westpacs conditional order system.
AGS at close friday was $1.16 I entered a market condition @$1.08 & order details @$1.06

The user unfriendly system rejects with the following msg's
Market Conditions: Price is invalid.
Order Details: Price is invalid.

The FAQ is no help @ all.
I tried making the two amounts the same & tried swapping them, same response. I've got all weekend to sort this out. The price will probably go north on monday but I want to set up my first stop loss so I know how to do it. Any suggestions?

 

[Out Too Soon]

Comsecs Conditional Trading Fee's are:

1. You can elect to pay an "Up front" Conditional Trading fee of $9.95^ plus standard brokerage if your order trades. You pay the "Up front" fee regardless whether your order trades; or
2. You can choose to pay "On execution" of the order and only pay $14.95^ plus standard brokerage when an order trades. You do not pay the "On execution" fee if no part of your order is executed.

Is this a similar pricing structure to other brokers?
Im yet to use Stop Losses but understand the value of using them, im guessing that the On Execution fee's while more expencive I will use less so will be the cheaper option. What choice do the rest of you make?

NO! All commsecs charges seem to be higher than most, I consider Westpac a ripoff @$24.95 & $29.95 if you dont have what they consider an "integrated acc" (or change the rules about what an integrated acc is ) & $10 for a conditional order on execution only.
Do a search on brokers fees & charges, why pay more for the same service (or lack of it)

 

[laurie]

Interesting post guys learn't a lot but I have a Q! why can't stop losses have a trigger and limit as a % of sp so that if the sp increases you stop loss order increases automatically I assume now if the sp was $2 and goes up say to $2.5 you have to manually adjust the trigger and limit yes/no!

cheers laurie