Stop Immigration - I want to buy a house!

Uncle Festivus · 30 October 2007

Various forums on various media have discussed how to tackle the housing affordability crisis, which is almost daily reaching new 'unaffordable' levels.

What is usually agreed is the factors which brought about the current situation - low interest rates, a commodities boom, and immigration.

But there comes a time when we as a nation have to ask ourselves whether we are actually better off, when we have to work just to survive, as opposed to live, due to the ever increasing cost of living.

While interest rates are rising, rents are rising also due to unprecedented demand for somewhere to live, all the while exacerbated by increasing immigration.

Has there been a proper review of whether our immigration levels are excessive, relative to the requirement for labour. Further unaccounted immigration will only put further pressure on the cost of living for those already trying to live in this country as they compete for scarce resources, in this case housing.

Is immigration now past the point where it actively contributes to the general society or does it now consume and compete forcing prices up for the incumbents ie the rest of us?

Until such time as the reasons why there is an housing shortfall are remedied, should we reduce immigration to a sustainable level?

KIWIKARLOS · 30 October 2007

i agree in principal but i think migrated labour is essential for oz perhapes we could have some restrictions on propoert ownership or something similar.
I know its not really feasable but for an example we could limit family member migration.

I used to live in a place called Eastwood and at about 1990-95 i would see foriegners driving down the streets with a video camera and then a couple months later 3 or 4 houses in a row were "sold" and entire families move into streets.

I think its a 1st world phenomenon and there hasn't really been any thought put into the repocussions of anabated immigration but fact is you go to China, india etc there are hardly any immigrants and in countries where there are alot like bangladesh and Saudi arabia they are mistreated or only there to work.

I am a strong believer in helping others but if everyone runs away from a country in crises who's going to be left to fix it. Its tough but sometimes people have to fight to improve their own country. (this is going to open a can of worms, and i know that people are going to say that they can't do anything but rather than bringing in an immigrant to our country and straight onto welfare equip them with what they need to improve their own situation first at home.)

kgee · 30 October 2007

lets open up more land to be developed if we did this I could get a cheap bit of land put a caravan on it and the problems solved its not like there ain't a lot of land out there...or is this to simple?
As for immigration I'm from NZ...so..
As for remedying the housing shortage maybe...but I'd suggest it will cause an increase in skills shortage...not just now but in the future....I just started a diploma in engineering at Tafe out of 20 of us not one was born in Australia!!!

KIWIKARLOS · 30 October 2007

I dont think oz can open up much more land the only land left is either the little bit of enivoronment that isn't completely screwed or so isolated and uninhabitable that services to these areas are too expensive to install.

Look at the murray basin for example the whole river system is essentially dead from under water allocation and clearing once upon a time people could happiliy live along its banks in rural communites but soon there wont be anything left except for dust! I think its one of the biggest disgraces in oz.

cuttlefish · 30 October 2007

I'd blame negative gearing before anything else for the reason property prices are ridiculously high. Introduce tax deductions on the family home mortgage (I think this is how it works in the US) and take away tax deductions for investors and you'd have a very different situation. It might also encourage investors to get a little bit more creative in their investments and Australia could move ahead in developing genuine value add industries rather than relying on abundant natural resources.

The other factor for bigger city property prices is regulatory restrictions that slow down the DA process. Its not as though Australia is short of land - regional areas in particular but even in inner city areas the opportunity for gentrification/increased densities is still abundant. On paper, Australia must have more land per capita than most other countries in the world.

Rafa · 30 October 2007

this could be a generalisation but in Adelaide, the biggest influx of migrants has been from the UK... most of them sell up their 1bed house in the UK for about 300,000 pounds, and can buy any property they want here for cash and have money left over the live on...

but the fact is, with the underinvestment in skills and trades i the last many years... most of these people are coming here to fill job vacancies... i.e. they are not free loading, rather contributing from day dot...

the only problem is, when you a bidding against someone who paid 300,000 pounds for 80sqm of apartment, they are not going to think twice about paying 500,000 AUD for 700sqm of land!

you quickly realise how cheap land really is in Oz!

kgee · 30 October 2007

Raffa I don't like comparing ourselves with the UK . I wonder what the % of home ownership is over there? And seriously I think wer'e heading in the same direction...and with elections coming up don't you love how the parties skirt this issue?
I totally agree with cuttlefish on negative gearing...it's ridiculously shortsighted, but if they stop it now (which they should) and interest rates keep rising there's going to be a lot of people in a world of hurt out there what do you do?

Pommiegranite · 30 October 2007

Rafa said:
this could be a generalisation but in Adelaide, the biggest influx of migrants has been from the UK... most of them sell up their 1bed house in the UK for about 300,000 pounds, and can buy any property they want here for cash and have money left over the live on...

but the fact is, with the underinvestment in skills and trades i the last many years... most of these people are coming here to fill job vacancies... i.e. they are not free loading, rather contributing from day dot...

the only problem is, when you a bidding against someone who paid 300,000 pounds for 80sqm of apartment, they are not going to think twice about paying 500,000 AUD for 700sqm of land!

you quickly realise how cheap land really is in Oz!

Damn right Rafa!

I don't blame immigration...I blame the blamers.

There's plenty to be had in this country founded by immigrants. The last thing we should be doing is pulling up the drawbridge becasue of our own inadequacies.

Instead we should be accepting that global migration is here to stay, and look at our own lives and plan for the future.

Humans have always migrated for a better life and always will. Whether it be from the rural Oz to the cities, or from Africa to Australia, its natural and beneficial.

Going back to daydream Australia, drifting through the decades, is not an appealing option.

Kathmandu · 30 October 2007

Negative gearing is in place as an incentive for investors to purchase accomadation for those who choose to rent.

The Govt is not providing enough subsidised Accomadation if you havent noticed, and even if they were, do you really want to live in high rise housing commission ghettos?

I am still not sure if there is an affordability crisis at all.

I feel it is more of an aspirational crisis.

How many FHB's were buying new 4 bedroom brick and tile homes with 2 bathrooms, ducted a/c, granite benchtops and european s/s appliances 15 years ago?

Dave

petervan · 30 October 2007

Instead of trying to beat them you could join them as I hear there some cheap houses going off in the U.S.A .Great exchange rate to

chops_a_must · 30 October 2007

This problem can be quite clearly seen here in WA.

The majority of young people can't find anywhere to rent. Even if they have the money, people aren't willing to take a chance on them when every man and his dog is coming over from the east coast.

It's a recipe for a massive social disaster.

Kathmandu · 30 October 2007

chops_a_must said:
This problem can be quite clearly seen here in WA.

The majority of young people can't find anywhere to rent. Even if they have the money, people aren't willing to take a chance on them when every man and his dog is coming over from the east coast.

It's a recipe for a massive social disaster.

By the east coast you mean Sydney?

QLD has it's own plague of southerners and West Australians at the moment coming over for our cheaper housing and driving prices up.

Dave

Rafa · 30 October 2007

Pommiegranite said:
Damn right Rafa!

I don't blame immigration...I blame the blamers.

There's plenty to be had in this country founded by immigrants. The last thing we should be doing is pulling up the drawbridge becasue of our own inadequacies.

Instead we should be accepting that global migration is here to stay, and look at our own lives and plan for the future.

Humans have always migrated for a better life and always will. Whether it be from the rural Oz to the cities, or from Africa to Australia, its natural and beneficial.

Going back to daydream Australia, drifting through the decades, is not an appealing option.

The thing that gets me the most is people who go on about all this immigration when we have no water...

we have crap loads of water.... just some very poor infrastructure... Australia annually exports trillions of litres of water (in mean and grain exports) and wastes many more billion in poor infrastructure.

chops_a_must · 30 October 2007

Kathmandu said:
By the east coast you mean Sydney?

QLD has it's own plague of southerners and West Australians at the moment coming over for our cheaper housing and driving prices up.

Dave

I think QLD is in a similar position to WA, although perhaps not as bad. It's just a joke to see people moving from WA purely because of affordability issues.

Happy · 30 October 2007

We should not worry too much about prices going up, if we didn’t have inflation they wouldn’t.

Spaghetti · 30 October 2007

Immigration is poorly handled imho. many skilled immigrants can only get work driving cabs because there seems to be a divide between what skilled labor the government provides via immigration as opposed to who business wants to employ. I am purely speculating here (so no t/a or f/a to back up my claim lol) but we may have to import say 3 migrants to one skilled job leaving 2 to unskilled labour jobs. Ashamed to say it but Australian employees do favour white or at least male and well spoken employees over people who may have the skills but do not look the part or do not have perfect english. If you are female, overweight, middleaged and foreign on top of it for eg wouldn't matter how highly skilled you are, you will probably end up filing clerk. So though the government may not discriminate on skill based migration, employees do.

I do not think people can really argue this point because it is obvious. Perhaps the degree it happens could be debated but we have to face up to the fact it does happen. Even older people like myself seem to have to accept lower wage and conditions just because we have a few gray hairs around the temple. It is poor for productivity not to fully realise the potential of human resources. We pay a lot for the education and training of employees and that is wasted if there skills are not fully exploited because they are not 28 white male.

I have noticed some government ads trying to change this bias but they show a lady serving coffee in a cafe, hardly what us oldies want. So many like myself should be in the workforce but choose not to be because we have been devalued all of a sudden and have the means to support ourselves with the boom in housing and of course the market

Kathmandu · 30 October 2007

chops_a_must said:
I think QLD is in a similar position to WA, although perhaps not as bad. It's just a joke to see people moving from WA purely because of affordability issues.

Like I sad before, I don't believe the affordability issue.

I feel it is an Aspirational issue.

Heres some houses under $300k

http://www.realestate.com.au/cgi-bi...header=&c=48186676&s=wa&snf=rbs&tm=1193724136

http://www.realestate.com.au/cgi-bi...header=&c=48186676&s=wa&snf=rbs&tm=1193724136

http://www.realestate.com.au/cgi-bi...header=&c=48186676&s=wa&snf=rbs&tm=1193724136

http://www.realestate.com.au/cgi-bi...header=&c=48186676&s=wa&snf=rbs&tm=1193724136

Doing the search under $300k I found 20 pages of them

http://www.realestate.com.au/cgi-bi...House,Terrace,Townhouse,Villa,Warehouse&o=def

What's wrong with them?

Dave

chops_a_must · 30 October 2007

Kathmandu said:
What's wrong with them?

Dave

If you think the only affordability issue is the cost of homes, I'm not sure if you are opening your eyes very much.

In Perth at least, if you have a normal paying, close to minimum wage job (like most young people do), you can't afford to rent. That's pretty bad as far as I'm concerned.

Kathmandu · 30 October 2007

chops_a_must said:
If you think the only affordability issue is the cost of homes, I'm not sure if you are opening your eyes very much.

In Perth at least, if you have a normal paying, close to minimum wage job (like most young people do), you can't afford to rent. That's pretty bad as far as I'm concerned.

RENTALS

How much closer to the CBD do you want?

http://www.realestate.com.au/cgi-bi...header=&c=92124982&s=wa&snf=rbs&tm=1193725087

Again 20 pages under 300/week

http://www.realestate.com.au/cgi-bi...rrace,Townhouse,Villa,Warehouse&m=&p=10&o=def

20 pages under 250/week

http://www.realestate.com.au/cgi-bi...rrace,Townhouse,Villa,Warehouse&m=&p=10&o=def

I don't know, looks pretty affordable to me.

Dave

disarray · 30 October 2007

as long as "growth" is the primary objective of government policy immigration will be necessary. it is in the nature of business to expand, requiring more labour etc to keep it going - see gerry harvey bitching about the price of labour last week. he in turn sells crappy consumer goods to these workers to make profit and perpetuate the growth cycle.

"sustainability" should be the watchword but its not. its all about growth and bigger and better and more, because humans are a greedy species. society itself will need to shift attitudes regarding consumerism and ask itself "do i really need that 42" plasma?" before we can find a balance with our environment. as long as life is all about the $$$ to buy the lifestyle we'll need growth which will need immigration.

theres plenty of usable land out there only it has been misused for generations and so is undesirable. a big investment in infrastructure as well as a shift by business and society to stop pissing all the water away can recreate dying communities and reversing the flow of people to the major cities. rent and land can get much much more expensive judging by new york, london and tokyo prices and as australia gets richer from our short term minerals boom people will pay.

Stop Immigration - I want to buy a house!

Uncle Festivus

KIWIKARLOS

kgee

KIWIKARLOS

cuttlefish

Rafa

kgee

Pommiegranite

Kathmandu

petervan

chops_a_must

Printing My Own Money

Kathmandu

Rafa

chops_a_must

Printing My Own Money

Happy

Spaghetti

Kathmandu

chops_a_must

Printing My Own Money

Kathmandu

disarray

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