Spitting on and burning the Australian Flag

[Gringotts Bank]

What does the flag represent?

The flag represents, and is, a symbol of the state.
It is something the state uses to call the populace "to arms" and help create loyalty to the state and in turn the political elite or ruling class.

I agree. How much reality is there in a symbol? None! When they send back pictures of earth from outer space, the continents are just big brown masses. The word 'Britain', 'Australia', 'China' etc aren't plastered across them. Those words are just imagination, and have no reality outside of the firing of neurons in your brain. The big brown masses just sit there - and that is real! The same goes for border lines - the lines are just drawn in on maps. Of course it goes without saying that if you trespass any deeply held imaginary belief, that will cause hurt and outrage. I'm not saying that's wrong, just... you know...there's another way of looking at it.

ps jackson I don't do any good. Re-think that label please.

 

[Calliope]

The Aborigines who burned the flag have done their cause huge damage. They have created an own goal and will get a lot less sympathy in future. They will lose out big time for their stupidity. That is punishment enough.

Well said. It would be interesting to see however what punishment would be meted out to a bunch of white hooligans if they burned this "sacred flag" in front of the "sacred aboriginal tent embassy."

I am sure the full wrath of the law and of all political parties would descend upon them.

 

[Gringotts Bank]

Well said. It would be interesting to see however what punishment would be meted out to a bunch of white hooligans if they burned this "sacred flag" in front of the "sacred aboriginal tent embassy."

I am sure the full wrath of the law and of all political parties would descend upon them.

Like a lot of cultural/gender/racial issues, it reflects a parent-child dyad. The whites represent the parents, and the Aborigines represent the children. The parent tolerates outbursts from the child, (as it should), even if the parent caused the problems to begin with. But at some point the damaged child has to forgive its parents' misguided (and usually well-intentioned) behaviour and live autonomously.

In that sense it would be quite right to frown upon the 'parent' burning the 'child's' flag. An adult-adult relationship is obviously the ideal. Aborigines may be inferior in some ways to whites, but they have strengths and insights that many whites will never achieve. It's simply a matter of Aborigines understanding they are not victims, not inferior, not children, despite what happened.

 

[DB008]

It would be interesting to see however what punishment would be meted out to a bunch of white hooligans if they burned this "sacred flag" in front of the "sacred aboriginal tent embassy."

I am sure the full wrath of the law and of all political parties would descend upon them.

Exactly what I was thinking.
What would happen if someone burned a Aboriginal Flag on national TV.....???

 

[ColB]

Exactly what I was thinking.
What would happen if someone burned a Aboriginal Flag on national TV.....???

I'm pretty sure you would face charges under the racial vilification laws that exist in most states.

"...Only an 'aggrieved person' may lodge a complaint. In the case of the racial hatred provisions, an aggrieved person is someone from the group targeted by the behaviour who is offended, insulted, humiliated or intimidated because of his or her race...."
[http://www.hreoc.gov.au/racial_discrimination/cyberracism/vilification.html]

So, as Australians, are any of us offended by the actions of the indigenous? I am, but like many indigenous I'm too lazy to do anything about it.

 

[pixel]

I was thinking how to reply to this thread but you have said it better than i ever could.

+1

Good one knobby

+2

 

[tech/a]

I want an apology

 

[prawn_86]

Who really cares? And if you do why? As knobby said, they have done more damage to their 'cause' by doing this.

Also as this is a possibly sensitive thread, please think twice about exactly what you are posting. If posts are outside the ASF T&C's they will be removed

 

[Glen48]

Recall the uproar when some pastor wanted to burn the Koran it was almost the start of WW111, lucky the pres. stepped in and saved the day.
But may that different????

The flag is a standard or reference point of OZ.
Picture this what if Australia was still an undiscovered land what would it be like..????

 

[tech/a]

Who really cares? And if you do why?

I do!
I'm offended.
These people expect us to support their cause.
Yet they treat us just as they don't wish to be treated.
Their point on me at least is mute!

 

[ColB]

Who really cares? And if you do why? As knobby said, they have done more damage to their 'cause' by doing this.

Also as this is a possibly sensitive thread, please think twice about exactly what you are posting. If posts are outside the ASF T&C's they will be removed

Prawn, I sense from your comments that this incident is of a low general interest from 'your' perspective. If you don't really care if someone burns the Australian flag then fair enough but allow some of us who do find it offensive to express our views without the threat of having a post removed.

We, as taxpayers spend huge sums of money providing welfare to the indigenous, in fact, more than you or I as white Australians are entitled to.

It appears the youngsters in the photos depicted on this thread don't have very good role models to look up to.

 

[motorway]

Tech, as you know, in china you'd be tortured and buried alive by the "authorities" for burning the flag.

I don't think we want to be like the Chinese, all full of patriotic pride and self-importance. It's ugly.

The other thing is, the majority of Aboriginies are not able to take advantage of opportunities in the western world because of low intellect and alcohol abuse. These might be learned or genetic phenomena, or a combination. They need a degree of support.

Should not underestimate the importance of poor health in reducing ability to "take advantage" . Genes are not destiny . Genes Switch on and off and express themselves Given among factors many environmental triggers. Which includes Culture ,Diet and Lifestyle.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/he...pidemic-among-blacks-says-new-book-2012-01-19

This is likely to be a huge factor imo

As to your other post

Like a lot of cultural/gender/racial issues, it reflects a parent-child dyad.

I appreciate that insight !

Motorway

 

[Wysiwyg]

Does anyone know why these people took such action?

 

[prawn_86]

I do!
I'm offended.
These people expect us to support their cause.
Yet they treat us just as they don't wish to be treated.
Their point on me at least is mute!

Their point was mute to me before they did this, perhaps that is why i dont care. We already spend way too much money on them imo as they have a lot of opportunities should they choose to take advantage of them.

Prawn, I sense from your comments that this incident is of a low general interest from 'your' perspective. If you don't really care if someone burns the Australian flag then fair enough but allow some of us who do find it offensive to express our views without the threat of having a post removed.

Col, members are entitled to express their opinions, but as per ASF T&C's any posts that are blatantly racist etc will be removed. So far everyhting on this thread seems fine to me, it was just a friendly caution to make sure this thread doesn't turn into just racial slanging

 

[sptrawler]

Does anyone know why these people took such action?

Just behaving badly, because they know they can. They don't answer to anyone, there is no accountability, so therefore they just keep pushing the envelope.IMO

 

[Julia]

Like a lot of cultural/gender/racial issues, it reflects a parent-child dyad. The whites represent the parents, and the Aborigines represent the children. The parent tolerates outbursts from the child, (as it should), even if the parent caused the problems to begin with. But at some point the damaged child has to forgive its parents' misguided (and usually well-intentioned) behaviour and live autonomously.

In that sense it would be quite right to frown upon the 'parent' burning the 'child's' flag. An adult-adult relationship is obviously the ideal. Aborigines may be inferior in some ways to whites, but they have strengths and insights that many whites will never achieve. It's simply a matter of Aborigines understanding they are not victims, not inferior, not children, despite what happened.

This sounds like the sort of psychobabble that was so popular in the 70's.

Such an explanation as an excuse for bad behaviour is imo insulting to those aboriginal elders like Noel Pearson, Bess Price et al who have been working so hard to change the culture of entitlement mentality fostered by some Australians who for some unfathomable reason seem to have an interest in seeing Aboriginal people remain victims.

Prawn, I sense from your comments that this incident is of a low general interest from 'your' perspective. If you don't really care if someone burns the Australian flag then fair enough but allow some of us who do find it offensive to express our views without the threat of having a post removed.

We, as taxpayers spend huge sums of money providing welfare to the indigenous, in fact, more than you or I as white Australians are entitled to.

It appears the youngsters in the photos depicted on this thread don't have very good role models to look up to.

+1.

 

[Dougs Antiques]

This act of treason shouldnt be just passed off as a mindless action of a few minors.
I AM SO ANGRY AND INSULTED ABOUT THE SPITTING AND BURNING OF OUR FLAG.
Lets just take a small part of our flag and examine what it really means.
"THE STAR OF FEDERATION"
The Star of Federation is that small star which has 7 points those points represent our states (6) and the seventh point represents our territories and any future states and or territories.( This was put on the flag in 1901 it was 6 pointed at that time and changed to the 7 point star in 1908 i think....and what does this symbolise? It symbolises AUSTRALIA BECOMING A FEDERATION)
This star in on our military badges,police badges and our defence force service medal (just to name a few).
This is an act that needs severe punushment , im sure that if i done the same to the aboriginal flag that i would be sitting in a jail cell right now waiting for the judge to sentence me on Monday morning.
Im with tech 100% on this one:
I DEMAND AN APPOLOGY AT THE VERY LEAST
A VERY BIG AND GENUINE "IM SORRY"

 

[tech/a]

Passion
Right with you Doug

 

[Gringotts Bank]

This sounds like the sort of psychobabble that was so popular in the 70's.

Such an explanation as an excuse for bad behaviour is imo insulting to those aboriginal elders like Noel Pearson, Bess Price et al who have been working so hard to change the culture of entitlement mentality fostered by some Australians who for some unfathomable reason seem to have an interest in seeing Aboriginal people remain victims.

70's? I must be old fashioned.

By the way everyone, the word is "moot". Mute is the button on your TV. You'll need it tonight if you're wathcing the women's tennis.

 

[nulla nulla]

1. In my opinion, Tony Abbots comment was innocuous and taken completely out of context by the Aboriginal Tent City Occupants;
2. The union rep trying to stir the occupants up by misrepresenting what was going on at the Emergency Service medal presentaion was reprehensible and he should be charged with trying to incite afray;
3. The actions of the occupants was innapropriate, intimadatory to innocent bystanders and in my oppinion the agitators should be charged with afray.
4. As John Howard has already pointed out it is not an offence to burn the flag.
5. Children spitting on the flag is imature and stupid, reflecting poorly on their parents and even worse on the people egging them on.

I thought it odd that they conducted a spitiual burning of leaves to appease the spirits before commencing the burning of the flag. Maybe this was out of respect to the indiginous Australians that have fought and died under the flag in World Wars, Korea, Vietnam, etc.

Personally I think this thread is turning into a stupid tirade, bashing all Blackfella's on the basis of the acts of a handful. I respecfully request that it be closed.