Should shorting be suspended/banned?

[wayneL]

Going by the poll results, one would suggest that 65% of investors or more are short in this current market. No wonder we have been slipping into the black hole. Bad rumours get spread, companies collapse, people lose their jobs, and people suicide, how can shorting be good for the common person.

Glad shorting is being banned:

After some of the comments on this thread and others, I'm going short on humanity.

 

[dhukka]

Going by the poll results, one would suggest that 65% of investors or more are short in this current market. No wonder we have been slipping into the black hole. Bad rumours get spread, companies collapse, people lose their jobs, and people suicide, how can shorting be good for the common person.

Glad shorting is being banned:

The problem with this kind of thinking is apart from being absolutely clueless, is that it is gaining credence among the misinformed.

 

[Timmy]

Going by the poll results, one would suggest that 65% of investors or more are short in this current market. No wonder we have been slipping into the black hole. Bad rumours get spread, companies collapse, people lose their jobs, and people suicide, how can shorting be good for the common person.

Glad shorting is being banned:

LOL psychic.

I think you are confusing what the question on the poll is with ASF posters' positions. And then confusing the representativeness of ASF posters within the whole market. I would suggest a number around 65% being short is out by a factor of more than 10.

 

[Timmy]

After some of the comments on this thread and others, I'm going short on humanity.

I think the bid is pretty low ...

 

[nioka]

Going by the poll results, one would suggest that 65% of investors or more are short in this current market. No wonder we have been slipping into the black hole. Bad rumours get spread, companies collapse, people lose their jobs, and people suicide, how can shorting be good for the common person.

Glad shorting is being banned:

What I read out of this thread is that there are a few ASFers who will defend their right to trade this way even if the trading is nonproductive in a real sense. They are quite happy to profit by any means and have no sympathy for any other investor that has made a genuine investment and ended up losing their super.

There are others prepared to accept short trading providing it is open, recorded and that the trader short selling must have ownership, or control of the ownership, of the stock being traded. That is my personal opinion.

There is no doubt that the way short selling has been used recently has been a blight on the investment scene.

 

[mazzatelli1000]

What I read out of this thread is that there are a few ASFers who will defend their right to trade this way even if the trading is nonproductive in a real sense. They are quite happy to profit by any means and have no sympathy for any other investor that has made a genuine investment and ended up losing their super.

Welcome to the real world....its tough isn't it!!

 

[subi1]

What I read out of this thread is that there are a few ASFers who will defend their right to trade this way even if the trading is nonproductive in a real sense. They are quite happy to profit by any means and have no sympathy for any other investor that has made a genuine investment and ended up losing their super.

There are others prepared to accept short trading providing it is open, recorded and that the trader short selling must have ownership, or control of the ownership, of the stock being traded. That is my personal opinion.

There is no doubt that the way short selling has been used recently has been a blight on the investment scene.

Good post Nioka.

I think it is disgraceful that stocks can be shorted (sold) even if the seller doesn't hold legal title to the stock.

This should be stopped immediately. Also I believe the fines for this type of shorting should be increased massively and enforced rigidly.

 

[IFocus]

What I read out of this thread is that there are a few ASFers who will defend their right to trade this way even if the trading is nonproductive in a real sense. They are quite happy to profit by any means and have no sympathy for any other investor that has made a genuine investment and ended up losing their super.

There are others prepared to accept short trading providing it is open, recorded and that the trader short selling must have ownership, or control of the ownership, of the stock being traded. That is my personal opinion.

There is no doubt that the way short selling has been used recently has been a blight on the investment scene.

Nioka the investment scene currently as already pointed out is getting crushed and the market is falling because we are looking at possibly the biggest collapse or at least one of the biggest contractions of leveraged credit globally.

Tell me the last time the US government pumped a trillion into its financial system to save them from collapse?

Ignoring this point and blaming short sellers with all due respect is delusional IMHO

Market participants sell short to profit from a falling market or more importantly the savvy investors hedge their positions in a falling market not the other way round.

 

[jeflin]

I am against naked shorts but not shorting. They are a necessary counterweight to ridiculous valuations.

If the market depends on the longs to sell their shares, the bubble may extend infinitely before popping with dire consequences. There is little incentive for a person is holding onto an existing stock to cash out when the share prices continue to climb.

To allow prices to come back to a reasonable level, another group of investors (shortsellers) have to enter the market and their sole interest is to profit from a decline in prices and return back the shares thereafter.

By banning the short-sellers, one half of the equation of trading is disrupted. In extraordinary circumstances of panic, yes, but if it is indefinitely, then no.

 

[It's Snake Pliskin]

What I read out of this thread is that there are a few ASFers who will defend their right to trade this way even if the trading is nonproductive in a real sense. They are quite happy to profit by any means and have no sympathy for any other investor that has made a genuine investment and ended up losing their super.

There are others prepared to accept short trading providing it is open, recorded and that the trader short selling must have ownership, or control of the ownership, of the stock being traded. That is my personal opinion.

There is no doubt that the way short selling has been used recently has been a blight on the investment scene.

Nioka,

It is dangerous to walk around with manufactured opinions borrowed from the media and then believe them enough to get emotional over.

Really, this is knuckle dragging stuff the world is being subjected to by the likes of the media and people shifting the blame from the real causes.

 

[It's Snake Pliskin]

Good post Nioka.

I think it is disgraceful that stocks can be shorted (sold) even if the seller doesn't hold legal title to the stock.

This should be stopped immediately. Also I believe the fines for this type of shorting should be increased massively and enforced rigidly.

Planet of the apes is a good movie for exposing the power of myths and lies.

 

[It's Snake Pliskin]

Yes. Looks like the spin doctors, lobbyists and media and have done there job and the sheep and the gullible have fallen for it again. Diverting attention from the real situation or causes is what they are good at.

The root cause of current events really has very little to do with short selling per se.

The 'Houses of Cards' have experienced a series of events that have exposed their weaknesses, including the resultant consequences, for all to see.

Go back 12 to 18 months and relook at the series of events that were unfolding and people will see that this was not caused by short selling.

Consider the level of denial that was being espoused by major financial institutions around the world, as to their level of exposure and the potential impact or lack thereof, and now look at the reality of the situation.

Now they want Governments to bail them out and the taxpayer will end up bearing the cost, but fundamental issues that caused this will end up being swept under the carpet once again.

Anyone who thinks that banning short selling, especially any form of short selling, regardless of the market (e.g., stocks, commodites, derivatives, etc.) has very little understanding of market mechanics or why they exist.

Legislation, as a knee jerk reaction, with regard to short selling that fails to consider commercial and market realities could potentially create more problems than it solves.

Cheers.

I just bumped this post because it is good.

 

[It's Snake Pliskin]

I'm sorry but that doesn't make sense.....You state " I haven't seen anyone object to banning naked short selling" ,.....but that is what the ASX is doing and plenty of people on this thread are complaining about banning short selling....If they are not objecting to banning naked short selling what are they objecting to?


Clearly they don't understand the difference....

Cordelia,

You have made this point in many of your posts.

Most like me are sick of the lies and rumour like attitudes of people who don't really understand what short selling as a whole provides the market with.

Naked shorts are not healthy for shorting as a topic in general I do admit.

Try some shorting it will show you why it is healthy for the market.

Cheers..

 

[It's Snake Pliskin]

Going by the poll results, one would suggest that 65% of investors or more are short in this current market. No wonder we have been slipping into the black hole. Bad rumours get spread, companies collapse, people lose their jobs, and people suicide, how can shorting be good for the common person.

Glad shorting is being banned:

Investigate the lies psychic.

Lies do more damage to workers than shorters do.

Shorting is healthy for the market. It provides a bottom and is a catalyst for recoveries in price. So after all the mums and pops sell and shorters have made some they cover their short positions and up comes the price followed by some long traders.

Without shorting, the mums and pops will keep pushing down the price to zero.

 

[nioka]

Nioka,

It is dangerous to walk around with manufactured opinions borrowed from the media and then believe them enough to get emotional over.

Really, this is knuckle dragging stuff the world is being subjected to by the likes of the media and people shifting the blame from the real causes.

I'm long enough in the tooth and have been around enough not to get too emotional over anything the press can come up with. Likewise I have had enough experience in business to see through the attitudes of a lot of posters on ASF that have no real wide experience in the business world.

One thing I learnt early in business life is not to disregard the 3 Ms. For business the three must have a balance and a good relationship.

The three Ms, MONEY, MANPOWER and MACHINERY. They are all necessary for prosperous production. When one dominates over the others the end result will be failure.

This forum concentrates on the money angle at times as though it is the exclusive factor in business. To be traded recklessly with no thought to productivity or for any consideration to others.

Just as we need traffic regulations for safety on the road, we need regulations governing trading. There is no doubt that the use of trading shorts has been abused. Safety on the road could be guaranteed 100% if we were banned from using the roads. Instead of a ban we accept rules that reduce the risk. By the same token, we need rules to control short selling. Until we have rules the practice should be suspended.

Some of you may just have to resort to other means of trading while the rules are established. Can I suggest real fundamental investing and be a part of the real investment money part of the business community.

 

[It's Snake Pliskin]

Likewise I have had enough experience in business to see through the attitudes of a lot of posters on ASF that have no real wide experience in the business world.

Ok. But then you say this below...(in red)

This forum concentrates on the money angle at times as though it is the exclusive factor in business. To be traded recklessly with no thought to productivity or for any consideration to others.

Now, I thought it was quite clear that anyone with any sense of investment survival be that through trading short, medium or long term, that this forum does provide anti reckless attitudes and information. Enough to say that investing as according your paradigm is RECKLESS. HIH. Ring any bells? And the shorters wern't blamed then. Who provide the public with any consideration then? And is that different to today?

Just as we need traffic regulations for safety on the road, we need regulations governing trading. There is no doubt that the use of trading shorts has been abused. Safety on the road could be guaranteed 100% if we were banned from using the roads. Instead of a ban we accept rules that reduce the risk. By the same token, we need rules to control short selling. Until we have rules the practice should be suspended.

I agree with the transparent nature of all trading be that long or short.

Some of you may just have to resort to other means of trading while the rules are established. Can I suggest real fundamental investing and be a part of the real investment money part of the business community.

Now that is naieve from an experienced business guy as self titled above. So you espouse getting into fundamental investing.

Sorry Nioka you have a lot to learn in the business of investing. Your assumption that the people who support shorting only trade short shows a lack of investment and market savvy not to mention ignorance.

 

[nomore4s]

B]They are quite happy to profit by any means and have no sympathy for any other investor that has made a genuine investment and ended up losing their super.

lol, so the greedy companies that have caused this debacle and have the US economy on the verge of collapse because of the short sighted nature of thier investment decisions and dodgy financial engineering are okay but the traders that are smart enough to make the most of the opportunity deserve to be hung?

Some of you may just have to resort to other means of trading while the rules are established. Can I suggest real fundamental investing and be a part of the real investment money part of the business community.

So because you don't agree with how other people invest or trade we should all now invest the way you see fit.

 

[nioka]

Sorry Nioka you have a lot to learn in the business of investing. Your assumption that the people who support shorting only trade short shows a lack of investment and market savvy not to mention ignorance.

Agree that I have a lot to learn about investing. Don't we all.

I never assumed that people that support shorting only trade shorts.

What I do know is that the real reason for a stock exchange existing is for it to be a vehicle for the provision and maintence of the financial needs of a productive society. I also know that there are those who would like to siphon off as much of that finance as they can for their personal use rather than leave it in the productive system.

I see a vast difference between a smart investor and a smart trader. In my case my smart investments are much more important to me than my smart trades. However, saying that, I only trade stocks I am prepared to invest in.

 

[nioka]

lol, so the greedy companies that have caused this debacle and have the US economy on the verge of collapse because of the short sighted nature of thier investment decisions and dodgy financial engineering are okay but the traders that are smart enough to make the most of the opportunity deserve to be hung?



So because you don't agree with how other people invest or trade we should all now invest the way you see fit.

Now that is twisting what I say.

I have no sympathy for GREEDY companies or their directors.

Just the same as I have to obey the speed limit ( that is another story as I had my car photagraphed by a camera in Brisbane last week) I believe there should be better rules for short trading. Until the rules are established that trading must be suspended.

I see the recent use of trading in shorts similar to looting. eg. while the law isn't watching grab what you can. (Or like the football finals being played without a ref.)

 

[Trembling Hand]

Agree that I have a lot to learn about investing. Don't we all.

I never assumed that people that support shorting only trade shorts.

What I do know is that the real reason for a stock exchange existing is for it to be a vehicle for the provision and maintence of the financial needs of a productive society. I also know that there are those who would like to siphon off as much of that finance as they can for their personal use rather than leave it in the productive system.

I see a vast difference between a smart investor and a smart trader. In my case my smart investments are much more important to me than my smart trades. However, saying that, I only trade stocks I am prepared to invest in.

Nioka You are truly full of it!! You are a speculator in exactly the same way as I am.

What percentage of you investment capital goes directly to the company?? For their operation needs? VERY LITTLE!! I know you are going to post some example when you took up a rights or share placement But come on!! 99% of transactions on all markets are for the purpose of speculation. Whether its a period of seconds or years.

On another issue you are not the only one to come from a business back ground and I find your righteousness about the evils of shorts staggeringly ignorant. What happens in capitalism when one side gets a monopoly on price setting? BUBBLES.