Shorting Stocks

[robertbanking]

Hello you very pleasant and amazing people that make up this forum. I do hope you are having a nice day and keeping positive.

I have been researching into shorting stocks i heard many people shorted Apple from January 2022 and did well out of this. I kindly wondered please what you look for to short a stock, is there anything in the charts, certain levels of price/volume action, the chart moving below certain moving averages that might help indicate a share is good to short please? I know that shorting is a short term strategy and with the fees incurred its only meant to be done over a short period of time. I would be very thankful for any advice anyone can give please, it would mean the world to me.

Thank you very much for any support you can give, i would be eternally thankful and grateful. Hope you have a pleasant rest of the day. Take care.

 

[Captain_Chaza]

Don't Do it!

Don't even think about doing it!

Invest your time in chasing Positive outcomes
You will feel a lot better for it and It is a lot easier!

Salute and God's Speed

 

[dmackeyd]

Hello you very pleasant and amazing people that make up this forum. I do hope you are having a nice day and keeping positive.

I have been researching into shorting stocks i heard many people shorted Apple from January 2022 and did well out of this. I kindly wondered please what you look for to short a stock, is there anything in the charts, certain levels of price/volume action, the chart moving below certain moving averages that might help indicate a share is good to short please? I know that shorting is a short term strategy and with the fees incurred its only meant to be done over a short period of time. I would be very thankful for any advice anyone can give please, it would mean the world to me.

Thank you very much for any support you can give, i would be eternally thankful and grateful. Hope you have a pleasant rest of the day. Take care.

An alternative to direct shorting: Trade a single equity or only a few that have a history of long-term trends historically, say the past 2-5 years. Use Long and Inverse ETFs. For Example, AAPL, trade long on the upside, and trade AAPD long when Apple goes into a downtrend. Any buy criteria remain the same, no need to code separately for long and short positions. Major indices all have inverse equivalents, SP500, DOW, QQQ, Russell along with metals (GLD-GLL, SLV-ZSL), countries, sectors, etc. Will have some certainty that the trend will have staying power in either direction??

 

[dmackeyd]

Happily, I trade USA markets where transaction fees have gone to zero on almost all ETFs! The issuer pays broker fees. Days of 2400 USD annually gone!

 

[Knobby22]

I never short, sort of agree with Captain Chaza, but I have seen a great opportunity with a major US company.

Is there a good way to do it without dealing with options or knock shops like CMC ?

Wish I could do what the big boys do, borrow the stock, sell it and buy it back later.

It will need to be a short for up to 12 months.

 

[frugal.rock]

Apple @Knobby22 ?

 

[divs4ever]

I never short, sort of agree with Captain Chaza, but I have seen a great opportunity with a major US company.

Is there a good way to do it without dealing with options or ?

Wish I could do what the big boys do, borrow the stock, sell it and buy it back later.

It will need to be a short for up to 12 months.

well i short in tipping competitions ( that are free to enter ) when i can find them
sure i never make any money on a correct pick , but i never lose the house on a bad outcome either

BTW , when shorting borrowed stocks , you are basically paying rent on those borrowed stocks , 12 months is a LOT of costs to catch up if you hope to break even

 

[Knobby22]

Apple @Knobby22 ?

No It's actually obvious if you think about it.

 

[Knobby22]

well i short in tipping competitions ( that are free to enter ) when i can find them
sure i never make any money on a correct pick , but i never lose the house on a bad outcome either

BTW , when shorting borrowed stocks , you are basically paying rent on those borrowed stocks , 12 months is a LOT of costs to catch up if you hope to break even

Yes, good point, it may not be practical. It's probably a sign I am getting bored, been almost totally out of the market since January.

 

[Captain_Chaza]

Ever thought of Shorting your own stocks

ie : Selling a few stocks you own and buy them back Later at a lower price

This is Totally legal!
And you will never lose your house!!!!

It's like Selling your Wife and then Buying her back at a lower price

It is very hard to do!

 

[divs4ever]

a high risk option ( considering you are talking 12 months ) is BBUS , i would probably never hold BBUS ( or the other reverse index ETFs ) for more than 3 months , again

i got caught with the last lot of BBUS ( which then consolidated after March 2020 )

there must be a way the ' big boys ' do it but they get away with 'naked short-selling' as well , so maybe they just ignore the rules , and the 'gig bots' network protects them

( revisit the GameStop saga for some clues , after all , if the traders can see that they had short-positions for 140% of the company stock issue , surely the regulator should have stepped in before the Reddit crowd )

 

[divs4ever]

Ever thought of Shorting your own stocks

ie : Selling a few stocks you own and buy them back Later at a lower price

This is Totally legal!
And you will never lose your house!!!!

It's like Selling your Wife and then Buying her back at a lower price

It is very hard to do!
View attachment 150427

yes i have and did !!

with ORG ( several years back ) i sold ahead of a cap. raise to buy back cheaper in the SPP ( so you knew what price you were paying )

with EVN , the share price went below the offer price so i bought on-market at an extra discount after brokerage

with QBE the idea failed , QBE ( at the time ) went higher and higher and it took nearly two years before QBE came back to an acceptable price

timing and target selection seems to be the key ( i prefer in the lead-up to a cap. raise so you know what the price is likely to be )

BTW i don't have a wife to sell

cheers

 

[Captain_Chaza]

yes i have and did !!

with ORG ( several years back ) i sold ahead of a cap. raise to buy back cheaper in the SPP ( so you knew what price you were paying )

with EVN , the share price went below the offer price so i bought on-market at an extra discount after brokerage

with QBE the idea failed , QBE ( at the time ) went higher and higher and it took nearly two years before QBE came back to an acceptable price

timing and target selection seems to be the key ( i prefer in the lead-up to a cap. raise so you know what the price is likely to be )

BTW i don't have a wife to sell

cheers

So you are saying I am right ?
I was only joking about selling one's wives

 

[divs4ever]

So you are saying I am right ?
I was only joking about selling one's wives

about 'flipping ' stocks , yes it has worked two out of three for me

with my colorful associates ( in the outside world ) you never know what they will do next ( or have done and kept secret )

 

[againsthegrain]

Ever thought of Shorting your own stocks

ie : Selling a few stocks you own and buy them back Later at a lower price

This is Totally legal!
And you will never lose your house!!!!

It's like Selling your Wife and then Buying her back at a lower price

It is very hard to do!
View attachment 150427

she will never be in the same condition again as u sold her in, do not attempt this

 

[Smurf1976]

i would probably never hold BBUS ( or the other reverse index ETFs ) for more than 3 months , again

Interested to know what the specific reason is?

I've never paid too much attention to them so a bit ignorant here.

 

[qldfrog]

Interested to know what the specific reason is?

I've never paid too much attention to them so a bit ignorant here.

Both bboz and bbus are slow money burner, Mr @divs4ever is right: these should never be purchased past short to medium term.
I learnt the hard way and this is not a market direction matter, probably the fact they play on futures and you leak a few % here and then.
Anyway, i own some but always for e myself to get out asap no long term holding.same for the bull versions

 

[divs4ever]

Interested to know what the specific reason is?

I've never paid too much attention to them so a bit ignorant here.

rightfully ( or wrongly ) the market ( the top indexes ) trends higher most of the time as you have more investment cash coming in from retail folk and pension funds meanwhile the spending-power of your cash is being eroded by inflation

now the 'BEAR family ' ( BEAR , BBOZ , BBUS ) hold a basket of derivatives

BBUS

Total Holdings
2
Category Average
--

Distinct Portfolio
Yes
Portfolio Turnover
--
Top 10 Holdings

CODE	COMPANY	ASSET
--	S&P500 Emini Fut Dec22	0.00%

BBOZ

Total Holdings
2
Category Average
--

Distinct Portfolio
Yes
Portfolio Turnover
--
Top 10 Holdings

CODE	COMPANY	ASSET
--	Spi 200 Futures Dec22	0.00%

BEAR

Top 10 Holdings​

As of 30 Nov 2022, 11:00 am AEDT
Total Holdings
3
Category Average
--

Distinct Portfolio
Yes
Portfolio Turnover
0.00%
Top 10 Holdings

CODE	COMPANY	ASSET
AAA	BetaShares Aus High Interest Cash ETF	62.83%
--	Spi 200 Futures Dec22	0.00%

and the derivatives need to be rolled over regularly

now compare them to their opposites

GGUS and GEAR

GEAR

Top 10 Holdings​

As of 30 Nov 2022, 11:00 am AEDT
Total Holdings
200
Category Average
--

Distinct Portfolio
Yes
Portfolio Turnover
6.57%
Top 10 Holdings

CODE	COMPANY	ASSET
BHP	BHP Group Ltd	10.68%
CBA	Commonwealth Bank of Australia	8.53%
CSL	CSL Ltd	6.70%
NAB	National Australia Bank Ltd	4.64%
WBC	Westpac Banking Corp	3.86%

Top 10 Holdings

CODE	COMPANY	ASSET
ANZ	Australia and New Zealand Banking Group Ltd	3.43%
WDS	Woodside Energy Group Ltd	3.28%
MQG	Macquarie Group Ltd	3.01%
WES	Wesfarmers Ltd	2.55%
TLS	Telstra Group Ltd	2.13%

GGUS

Top 10 Holdings​

As of 30 Nov 2022, 11:00 am AEDT
Total Holdings
1
Category Average
--

Distinct Portfolio
Yes
Portfolio Turnover
17.74%
Top 10 Holdings

CODE	COMPANY	ASSET
IVV	iShares Core S&P 500 ETF	100.00%

yes , for the 'positive' ETFs you still have leveraging costs but at least you have div. returns to offset those ongoing costs ( most of the time ) so you should be resisting the full impact of inflation ( maybe even beating inflation ) plus some chance of capital gain over the long duration

all that said

the reverse index funds can be useful if you think the market is near a cycle peak , giving you access to a quick liquidity injection in a falling market ( and directly into your trading account to boot ) and the potential for a capital gain in the process

 

[divs4ever]

i have held BBOZ , BEAR , and BBUS up to and including most of March 2020 and they performed as i desired , having started accumulating after September 2019 ( REPO madness ) ( i chose this in preference to hoarding cash in the bank , because i worried banks might resort to freezing/limiting withdrawals and the banks weren't paying much in interest at the time )

now i did buy one parcel of BBUS late March 2020 in case of a second leg lower and that became a train-wreck as the US engineering the K-shaped recovery .

PS i haven't held GGUS or GEAR yet , but will probably consider GEAR in a major dip

 

[Knobby22]

So you are saying I am right ?
I was only joking about selling one's wives

Damn.

Might as well tell you who I was thinking of shorting, Tesla. I know it has dropped a lot already but I think there is a lot further to go for a variety of reasons.