Short term traders should be taxed at 90%

[Spiderbrain]

Regardless of strategy I reckon there should be a minimum 90% tax on any profit if you've held the stock less than a week. I thought the idea of the share market was to invest in a company, not to gamble on making a quick killing at other people's expense.

 

[Trembling Hand]

Re: Short-term trading strategy discussion

Regardless of strategy I reckon there should be a minimum 90% tax on any profit if you've held the stock less than a week. I thought the idea of the share market was to invest in a company, not to gamble on making a quick killing at other people's expense.

Welcome Spiderbrain.

Shame your first post is lacking any knowledge of your subject.

98% of transactions on the market are not investing. You only invest in IPO & Cap raising etc. You are not "investing". Go away and learn what a transaction on the market is. Here is a hint - time frame no matter how long is not investing its just pass the parcel from another punter.

 

[satanoperca]

Re: Short-term trading strategy discussion

Regardless of strategy I reckon there should be a minimum 90% tax on any profit if you've held the stock less than a week. I thought the idea of the share market was to invest in a company, not to gamble on making a quick killing at other people's expense.

Why a week? Why not a month or a year?

:holysheep:

 

[Spiderbrain]

Re: Short-term trading strategy discussion

Welcome Spiderbrain.

Shame your first post is lacking any knowledge of your subject.

98% of transactions on the market are not investing. You only invest in IPO & Cap raising etc. You are not "investing". Go away and learn what a transaction on the market is. Here is a hint - time frame no matter how long is not investing its just pass the parcel from another punter.

I admit I don't know jack about much of but it just seems completely wrong for people to be simply gambling on the market on a daily basis like a poker player in the hope of outsmarting others who buy shares in a company because they are told it's a good investment. From the little I do know the whole market looks more like insanity to me than a way to run an economy!

 

[Trembling Hand]

Re: Short-term trading strategy discussion

I admit I don't know jack about much of but it just seems completely wrong for people to be simply gambling on the market on a daily basis like a poker player in the hope of outsmarting others who buy shares in a company because they are told it's a good investment. From the little I do know the whole market looks more like insanity to me than a way to run an economy!

More than happy to debate further but maybe the mods can cut this stuff into a more appropriate thread.

I will add though, the economy has always ran this way, since year dot. Products priced by interested parties.

Anything else is communism, maybe you would prefer that but again for another thread.

 

[cutz]

Re: Short-term trading strategy discussion

Regardless of strategy I reckon there should be a minimum 90% tax on any profit if you've held the stock less than a week. I thought the idea of the share market was to invest in a company, not to gamble on making a quick killing at other people's expense.

WTF are you on about Spiderbrain, why should a competent trader be penalized for earning an honest days work, is it because you've been previously burnt and secretly harboring a grudge ?

 

[nulla nulla]

Re: Short-term trading strategy discussion

Regardless of strategy I reckon there should be a minimum 90% tax on any profit if you've held the stock less than a week. I thought the idea of the share market was to invest in a company, not to gamble on making a quick killing at other people's expense.

Your perspective is rather narrow minded. This is an industry. It generates billions of dollars each year in turnover, not just on the buy sell transactions of the buyers and sellers but the related entities involved in each transaction.
There is one broker involved in the buy and another broker involved in the sell. Each broker jockeying with the others to provide the most cost effective value enhanced service to the share trader. Imediately involved in each transaction is the federal government picking up gst on both sides of the transaction. Both brokers fees include a component of gst.
Then there are the service providers with live market feeds for a small monthly fee plus the data interpretation service providers with another small monthly fee plus of course the analysts. These experts can tell you when to buy/sell what and why (history tells us never see a boom coming or a bust until after it happens).
And lets not forget the big US merchant banks. They lost a fortune with the sub-prime mortgage fiasco and almost went to the wall. However they were able to use the Government bail-out funds to trade their way from loss to billion dollar profits and repay the government within 12 months.
Tax! so much tax is paid on every transaction and every step of the way that there is no way any government is ever going to rein in this market.

 

[tech/a]

Re: Short-term trading strategy discussion

WTF are you on about Spiderbrain, why should a competent trader be penalized for earning an honest days work, is it because you've been previously burnt and secretly harboring a grudge ?

Big hint.
Its Kevin 007.(Spiderbrain)
Not happy about the insulation debacle.

From the little I do know the whole market looks more like insanity to me than a way to run an economy!

Dead giveaway--has RUDD written all over it.

 

[cutz]

Re: Short-term trading strategy discussion

This is an industry.

Exactly,

An industry where profits are taxed straight up and not hidden behind some negative gearing scam.

 

[doctorj]

Re: Short-term trading strategy discussion

Regardless of strategy I reckon there should be a minimum 90% tax on any profit if you've held the stock less than a week. I thought the idea of the share market was to invest in a company, not to gamble on making a quick killing at other people's expense.

I'll split this off in to a new thread...

I'm wondering who's expense is trading. When the short term trader enters, they're providing an exit to a seller that has set a minimum price at which they're happy to sell. When the short term trader sells, they're providing an entry to someone at a price that is equal to or less than a price they're willing to pay. In the middle, the short term trader has provided liquidity to the market.

To understand the impact of abolishing trading, imagine a situation where there was no secondary market for securities. A rational investor would demand higher returns to compensate for the reduced liquidity and exit opportunities. Higher required returns results in two things - less financing available for the company, and the money they can get at a higher cost of capital.

 

[Spiderbrain]

Well I admit to be pretty ignorant about it all and only came in to see if there were any threads about APA (since they're wanting me to buy more) and impetuously responded to this thread. And yes I have been burnt. I have a few shares and funds that I watched collapse during the GFC, sold CBA back in March and then watched them skyrocket, bought Elders at 19.5 cents recently and watched them plummet and a few other disasters.

You will no doubt call me stupid but the way the market can go bonkers seems completely crazy to me and short term buying and selling like playing a game of poker is just part of the craziness I think.

Anyway, glad you all think it's a productive activity. It's certainly not as bad as all the other shonky crap that goes on in the market like the CDS MBS and CDOs tied to frauds and shysters that brought the financial system to its knees.

Oh and I'm definitely not a communist! I'm not an advocate of unregulated markets either though.

 

[cutz]

And yes I have been burnt. I have a few shares and funds that I watched collapse during the GFC, sold CBA back in March and then watched them skyrocket, bought Elders at 19.5 cents recently and watched them plummet and a few other disasters.

Guys like yourself stick out like sore thumbs,

Do all the wrong things then blame the markets and traders for giving you a hiding, biggest problem is you are slaves to the mainstream media.

 

[Mr J]

Spiderbrain, you obviously don't know the purpose of a market. It's not a tool for investment, it's a tool for exchange. Timeframe is irrelevant. Without these shorterm traders, the spread and commissions you pay would make investing extremely costly.

You will no doubt call me stupid but the way the market can go bonkers seems completely crazy to me and short term buying and selling like playing a game of poker is just part of the craziness I think.

And longterm players are any better? Shorterm traders didn't cause the GFC.

 

[doctorj]

Anyway, glad you all think it's a productive activity. It's certainly not as bad as all the other shonky crap that goes on in the market like the CDS MBS and CDOs tied to frauds and shysters that brought the financial system to its knees.

Oh and I'm definitely not a communist! I'm not an advocate of unregulated markets either though.

I don't think it is in itself productive, but it certainly supports productive endeavours.

What's wrong with CDS, MBS & CDO? I agree that in some instances they were poorly used, but I disagree if the inference is that they're inherently bad, useless or serve no beneficial purpose...

 

[cutz]

You will no doubt call me stupid but the way the market can go bonkers seems completely crazy to me and short term buying and selling like playing a game of poker is just part of the craziness I think.

Just out of curiosity, what would you consider to be a safe and legitimate form of investment ?

 

[Julia]

Guys like yourself stick out like sore thumbs,

Do all the wrong things then blame the markets and traders for giving you a hiding

Exactly.
I'm just a bit surprised that anyone has actually taken the initial post seriously enough to argue about it.
Such ignorance really deserves to fester.

 

[Soft Dough]

Re: Short-term trading strategy discussion

Welcome Spiderbrain.

Shame your first post is lacking any knowledge of your subject.

98% of transactions on the market are not investing. You only invest in IPO & Cap raising etc. You are not "investing". Go away and learn what a transaction on the market is. Here is a hint - time frame no matter how long is not investing its just pass the parcel from another punter.

Your general idea is ok, but it IS an investment,

but by investing into shares you are helping the company have access to cash, by allowing them to borrow against a higher asset value than otherwise achievable, this allows them to borrow to invest, hence adding to employment and living standards...... now if only Kevin Rudd understood this, but then again he is only a politician.

If your argument was true, then housing would not be an investment either ( and in fact it is worse than shares as the gearing by the company goes to expansion, and a fair proportion of extra gearing with housing goes to consumption )

 

[Trembling Hand]

Re: Short-term trading strategy discussion

Your general idea is ok, but it IS an investment,

but by investing into shares you are helping the company have access to cash,

Really.

If you buy a share off me tomorrow and hold it for 10 years how is that helping the company have access to the cash you just gave me??

It is laughable that people still thing purchasing a share in a stock market transaction is used by the company.

 

[doctorj]

Exactly.
I'm just a bit surprised that anyone has actually taken the initial post seriously enough to argue about it.
Such ignorance really deserves to fester.

I'm sure Spiderbrain's view is relatively common amongst those less familiar with financial markets. Why not discuss it?

 

[Client]

Regardless of strategy I reckon there should be a minimum 90% tax on any profit if you've held the stock less than a week. I thought the idea of the share market was to invest in a company, not to gamble on making a quick killing at other people's expense.

That was one of the reasons why Warren Buffet made his shares cost about $25,000 - to avoid speculators. Well, at least it was few years ago...