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Shock in Cyprus as savers face bailout levy

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Just read the following capital controls that are coming into place for the opening of banks in Cyprus..

http://www.cyprus-mail.com/capital-...e-opening-banks-text-decree-included/20130328

Finance Minister Michalis Sarris last night signed into law a temporary decree capping cash withdrawals per person per bank per day at €300, effectively banning cheques and controlling cash outflows from the country, allowing only €1,000 per person per journey abroad.
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Didn't notice anything about controlling the movement of PMs, therefore it might be a busy time for gold and silver merchants when the locals and russians can get their E300/day. I would expect the number of Russian tourists to increase very quickly.

As an interesting side note, I was at a bank in a country town here in Australia this morning, there were lines at the ATMs and inside going out the door, more than anything usual. Even my wife stated that it would be prudent to reduce bank holdings, not something she would usually be interested in. I am not suggesting a run on banks here, just that it seems that confidence in security of bank deposits has been delt a critical blow.
 
againsthegrain said:
and so the bitcoins continue to go up
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lol bitcoins, what a "market", you can clear max 100BTC a day through Mt Gox, less through other exchanges. There is about...700USD of depth on either side in the BTCUSD futs on ictbit.se and about 7000USD depth on MtGox.

What good is the "going up" if cashing out a tiny position involves moving the market several price levels?
 
skc said:
The bank of Cyprus has branches in Australia from memory... actually just found out that it was acquired by Bank of Bendigo a couple of years ago. Thank goodness.
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I remember walking past a branch and doing a double take.
"What the hell is that doing here?
Who would point any money with them.
Nuts!" I thought.
But there it was. Serving the Greek comunity perhaps?
 
sinner said:
lol bitcoins, what a "market", you can clear max 100BTC a day through Mt Gox, less through other exchanges. There is about...700USD of depth on either side in the BTCUSD futs on ictbit.se and about 7000USD depth on MtGox.

What good is the "going up" if cashing out a tiny position involves moving the market several price levels?
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But it does involve not being at risk of having your funds stolen by a govt, not paying tax and remaining anonymous
 
brty said:
As an interesting side note, I was at a bank in a country town here in Australia this morning, there were lines at the ATMs and inside going out the door, more than anything usual. Even my wife stated that it would be prudent to reduce bank holdings, not something she would usually be interested in. I am not suggesting a run on banks here, just that it seems that confidence in security of bank deposits has been delt a critical blow.
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Petrol price hike day of the week ?

Thursday before Easter ?

I dare not question a lady's fears though. :)
 
againsthegrain said:
But it does involve not being at risk of having your funds stolen by a govt, not paying tax and remaining anonymous
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except that your "funds" once they're in bitcoin form, are only even remotely useful if you can convert them back into taxable, stealable, not-anonymous, good old fashioned fiat currency. This liquidity of the bitcoin market also puts a very very definite limit on how much you could "save" in bitcoins, if you wanted to. It's not much. If your net worth is even half of the Aus average it's pretty useless.

This will hold true until you can pay for food, water, clothing, shelter, energy, taxes, education, entertainment, drugs and sex in bitcoins. Not going to happen.

Imagine putting all your wealth in bitcoins and then needing to pay for something unexpected in the middle of a banking crisis where banks and ATMs are closed. Please explain how you expect to convert your digital currency into physical currency.

I would also point out that bitcoin is only as anonymous as your wallet identity. If I can tie your identity to a particular bitcoin wallet then I can track all transactions as a matter of the inherent bitcoin design. In that sense, cash is significantly more anonymous than bitcoins.
 
So, what stands out here to me is that wealth is only an illusion - it can be taken away from you at any moment. They let us play with the illusion, until they don't. It makes you wonder if you really own anything, when they can take it from you at will. Even gold is no use, they can destroy its value just as easy as paper money. It's a game, and you need to know the rules, but they hold all the cards.
 
howmanyru said:
So, what stands out here to me is that wealth is only an illusion - it can be taken away from you at any moment. They let us play with the illusion, until they don't. It makes you wonder if you really own anything, when they can take it from you at will. Even gold is no use, they can destroy its value just as easy as paper money. It's a game, and you need to know the rules, but they hold all the cards.
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Well you can't take it with you when you die but aside from that I disagree and fail to see how gold is anything but unencumbered physical wealth.
 
sinner said:
except that your "funds" once they're in bitcoin form, are only even remotely useful if you can convert them back into taxable, stealable, not-anonymous, good old fashioned fiat currency. This liquidity of the bitcoin market also puts a very very definite limit on how much you could "save" in bitcoins, if you wanted to. It's not much. If your net worth is even half of the Aus average it's pretty useless.

This will hold true until you can pay for food, water, clothing, shelter, energy, taxes, education, entertainment, drugs and sex in bitcoins. Not going to happen.

Imagine putting all your wealth in bitcoins and then needing to pay for something unexpected in the middle of a banking crisis where banks and ATMs are closed. Please explain how you expect to convert your digital currency into physical currency.

I would also point out that bitcoin is only as anonymous as your wallet identity. If I can tie your identity to a particular bitcoin wallet then I can track all transactions as a matter of the inherent bitcoin design. In that sense, cash is significantly more anonymous than bitcoins.
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You could say the same about shares gold silver and I dare say property to a certain degree except you can live in it or have others squat

Anyway I was simply stating since this started bitcoins have been gaining momentum, is it the Russians? I don't know. Never said there is big money to be made trading but the currency has been pushed up quiet heavily with some days having up to 70k btc USD per day
t
 
sinner said:
This will hold true until you can pay for food, water, clothing, shelter, energy, taxes, education, entertainment, drugs and sex in bitcoins. Not going to happen.
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You can pay for sex with these I think.

I believe you go to a "two bit *****".
 
againsthegrain said:
You could say the same about shares gold silver and I dare say property to a certain degree except you can live in it or have others squat
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Property perhaps, shares less so but you can easily liquidate almost any amount of bullion that the average person would have.

We were out checking out prices the weekend before last and went into this bullion dealers shop. He was busy so we came back. The person prior had just bought 50k worth of gold with cash. The dealer was saying that he himself buys up to that much in a single transaction normally and more on special request etc.

Considering there at least 5-10 such dealers in Melbourne that I know of, I would say bullion is a lot more liquid than bit coin.
 
''Very bad, very, very bad,'' says 65-year-old John Demetriou, rubbing tears from his lined face with thick fingers. ''I lost all my money.''

John now lives in the picturesque fishing village of Liopetri on Cyprus' south coast. But for 35 years he lived at Bondi Junction and worked days, nights and weekends in Sydney markets selling jewellery and imitation jewellery.

He had left Cyprus in the early 1970s at the height of its war with Turkey, taking his wife and young children to safety in Australia. He built a life from nothing and, gradually, a substantial nest egg. He retired to Cyprus in 2007 with about $1 million, his life savings.
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http://www.smh.com.au/national/i-we...-man-i-woke-up-a-poor-man-20130328-2gxab.html
 
MrBurns said:
I'm a little nervous now...
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And this is not going to help you sleep any better.

http://www.counterpunch.org/2013/03/28/the-confiscation-scheme-planned-for-us-and-uk-depositors/

with the link to the white paper http://www.fdic.gov/about/srac/2012/gsifi.pdf

An efficient path for returning the sound operations of the G-SIFI to the private sector would be provided by exchanging or converting a sufficient amount of the unsecured debt from the original creditors of the failed company [meaning the depositors] into equity [or stock]. In the U.S., the new equity would become capital in one or more newly formed operating entities. In the U.K., the same approach could be used, or the equity could be used to recapitalize the failing financial company itself””thus, the highest layer of surviving bailed-in creditors would become the owners of the resolved firm. In either country, the new equity holders would take on the corresponding risk of being shareholders in a financial institution.
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In the US, depositors have actually been put in a worse position than Cyprus deposit-holders, at least if they are at the big banks that play in the derivatives casino. The regulators have turned a blind eye as banks use their depositaries to fund derivatives exposures. And as bad as that is, the depositors, unlike their Cypriot confreres, aren’t even senior creditors. Remember Lehman? When the investment bank failed, unsecured creditors (and remember, depositors are unsecured creditors) got eight cents on the dollar. One big reason was that derivatives counterparties require collateral for any exposures, meaning they are secured creditors. The 2005 bankruptcy reforms made derivatives counterparties senior to unsecured lenders.
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One might wonder why the posting of collateral by a derivative counterparty, at some percentage of full exposure, makes the creditor “secured,” while the depositor who puts up 100 cents on the dollar is “unsecured."
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That FDIC paper is not referring to depositors as unsecured creditors. If fact the paper is at pains to say that by protecting depositors the bank is less likely to be a victim of bank runs.


Similarly, because the group remains solvent, retail or corporate depositors should not have an incentive to “run” from the firm under resolution insofar as their banking arrangements, transacted at the operating company level, remain unaffected. In order to achieve this, the authorities recognize the need for effective communication to depositors, making it clear that their deposits will be protected.
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What a surprise that some two bit news organisation purporting to tell the facts, adds its own editorial in parethesis that is completely wrong.

So much for "investigative journalism". More like reactionary hyperbole.:rolleyes:
 
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