Shares or Property?

[Glen48]

That’s not to denigrate the stunning achievement of so many people being lifted out of poverty. But why do you think so much Chinese money is flooding into Australia through the Significant Investor Visa program?

--Private Chinese citizens can legally only move US$50,000 per year outside the country, under capital control laws. But if you put $5 million into Australian government bonds, you can effectively buy Australian permanent residency. More than 95% of the participants in Australia’s ‘golden visa’ program are Chinese, according to a report in today’s Australian.

--There’s absolutely nothing wrong with a country making itself an attractive place for capital to flee to. But ask yourself why Chinese money is pouring into the country. The Australian reports that the Bank of China is actively and illegally laundering money for wealthy Chinese who wish to get it out of the country and into places like Melbourne and Sydney.

From Money Morning:
--Insiders or members of the Communist Party who see the writing on the wall with the end of the debt-fuelled fixed investment growth model have every incentive to take their private fortunes ”” ill-gotten or otherwise ”” and get them out of the country while the getting is good. Melbourne is the new Zurich and Sydney is the new Geneva.

Chinese are putting 22 Billion in to the USA housing market so it would be reasonable to assume it is happening all over the World.

The word is the Australia Property market will continue to rise and IR will stay low or go lower as the Feds do all to prop up the market.

I can not see any reason the DOW won't double as investor's pull their money out of Europe and other place with USA perceived to be the safest place to park their money and big companies split their share to enable MOm and Pop to buy in to the trap.

 

[notting]

China’s state broadcaster CCTV has launched an extraordinary attack which in reality is supposed to be a retaliatory threat to Australia for our display of friendship with Japs PM.
They are trying to underhandedly threaten us that they will stop buying our bonds and stuff. They are trying to make us tremble as targets of the next crack down of graft and corruption.

It's a BS threat.

China never does anyone favors.
All they are interested in is making money and gaining power. They will always buy value no matter what is going on. It's got nothing to do with their good/bad relations with us. They try to make out that they are investing in Australia out of some kind of good will. It is nothing of the sort. We should block them from buying anything of ours with their pretend money.

The time to worry about China is when they are saying nothing or when they are making friendly gestures like what they did the other day in saying they were not Asian expansionists. That's usually when they are about to invade, incarcerate, pillage and kill everyone.

If they are not expansionists then why are they occupying Southern Mongolia, Tibet, East Kazakhstan and making aggressive grabs in the South China sea.

 

[Glen48]

China has no need to attack Australia, at this stage, when they can legally buy up Aussie property, Farms and mineral lots all with the Feds consent.
Now the Greens have given Abbott the green light to keep borrowing money with out a debt ceiling it is full speed ahead.

 

[notting]

China has no need to attack Australia, at this stage, when they can legally buy up Aussie property, Farms and mineral lots all with the Feds consent.
Now the Greens have given Abbott the green light to keep borrowing money with out a debt ceiling it is full speed ahead.

China will never attack any one unless they have overwhelming advantage, they are bullies and cowards.
In the mean time China will do everything they can to invade us quietly like the 20,000 or so they already have on our land posing as students and immigrants that in reality are foot soldiers who spy and carry out all kinds of covert activities.
They also try to overrun with investment then enslave you with indebtedness to them and try infiltrate and take government positions.

 

[Value Collector]

But why do you think so much Chinese money is flooding into Australia through the Significant Investor Visa program?

.

 

[Value Collector]

China will never attack any one unless they have overwhelming advantage, they are bullies and cowards.
In the mean time China will do everything they can to invade us quietly like the 20,000 or so they already have on our land posing as students and immigrants that in reality are foot soldiers who spy and carry out all kinds of covert activities.
They also try to overrun with investment then enslave you with indebtedness to them and try infiltrate and take government positions.

Perhaps this would be better in a conspiracy thread, it's not really on topic here

 

[Huskar]

Yes nothing special about them... maybe if their average return was 11-12% per annum since inception, than there would be nothing special about them. No Australian retail fund I have seen so far has achieved these results only hedge funds with minimum deposit 500K. Can you name 5 Australian retail funds that have achieved what Microequities have achieved in the same amount of time? BTW 11-12% per annum, since inception for an Australian retail fund is still pretty good IMO.

AFIC have for 80 years (alright, not 12% for 80 yrs but the still done good) - the best out there in Aussie equities in my opinion..

http://www.afi.com.au/Investment-performance.aspx

 

[luutzu]

China has no need to attack Australia, at this stage, when they can legally buy up Aussie property, Farms and mineral lots all with the Feds consent.
Now the Greens have given Abbott the green light to keep borrowing money with out a debt ceiling it is full speed ahead.

Was listening to some lecture and it's interesting how the US just taxed the heck out of the British and Japanese investors back in the days. That they lure them in, the Brits invests in rails, the Japs in property and what not... then years later, under some pretext, increase taxes on those and the investors just sold out at losses.

It's pretty amazing the kind of stuff our government could pull and get away with it too.

 

[ROE]

Let them buy up land and farms and properties, load it up, they cant shipped it to China
Down the track we just twit some regulations and laws and they sell back a few times cheaper
or let you have it back for free

or if there is war bye bye to your hard asset here

 

[Value Collector]

Let them buy up land and farms and properties, load it up, they cant shipped it to China
Down the track we just twit some regulations and laws and they sell back a few times cheaper
or let you have it back for free

or if there is war bye bye to your hard asset here

Yep, a 7 year drought should see them dumping the farms they over paid for.

It's funny, people every where are complaining that chinese are buying up our farms, but I don't see these whingers rushing out and paying top dollar to till the soil.

The average aussie farmer is in his 60's, and has work hard his whole life, can you blame him for selling out if some one wants to pay top dollar.

We need investment in the agricultural sector, and if Gen X and Y don't want to do it, Then let the chinese.

 

[angellicvoices]

Yep, a 7 year drought should see them dumping the farms they over paid for.

It's funny, people every where are complaining that chinese are buying up our farms, but I don't see these whingers rushing out and paying top dollar to till the soil.

The average aussie farmer is in his 60's, and has work hard his whole life, can you blame him for selling out if some one wants to pay top dollar.

We need investment in the agricultural sector, and if Gen X and Y don't want to do it, Then let the chinese.

True, I always think what would happen to a farm if the owner passes away and no-body wants to continue. There are a lot of farms for sale out there but seems very few want to work on them. I guess it doesn't get maintained and running a farm is hard work and does cost a lot of time, labour and investments like new technologies and machineries etc. Even fertiliser and pesticides isn't cheap. Then you got to worry about things like available water and water rights etc. I almost bought a farm once, but realised finding reliable people to work is just too difficult, especially during the mining boom.

 

[Glen48]

As the foreigners buy up our farms the produce wil go back to China because the whole idea is to keep the top brass in power and make sure the peasants are fed and happy.

 

[angellicvoices]

As the foreigners buy up our farms the produce wil go back to China because the whole idea is to keep the top brass in power and make sure the peasants are fed and happy.

As long as the farmer is happy with what he gets for the farm and the Chinese pay their taxes, they can sell their produce to whoever they want to. I don't believe for a moment that they wouldn't sell to local markets considering the cost of freight these days. Would you prefer seeing a struggling Aussie farmer? Look what happen in Zimbabwe when all the white farmers came and invested in farmland, the country's agricultural economy went up. However look what happened to the country after Mugabe decided to kick the white farmers out, the agricultural industry collapsed.

 

[Glen48]

Ok so you are saying the Chinese government put up a few mill to buy farms,mines etc around the world the the manager can pocket the profits?

 

[Value Collector]

As the foreigners buy up our farms the produce wil go back to China because the whole idea is to keep the top brass in power and make sure the peasants are fed and happy.

Even if the farm / mine is owned by Aussie farmers, the produce will still be sold to the highest bidder, and we already export lots of food.

How is this different from an Aussie starting a factory in china, to ship goods back here?

Australia needs export industries, and even if the farm was exporting 100% of its produce, its better than the land lying fallow, a farm can't operate in isolation, there would be flow on effects into the rest of the economy.

 

[Value Collector]

Ok so you are saying the Chinese government put up a few mill to buy farms,mines etc around the world the the manager can pocket the profits?

Is it just Chinese investors you are worried about, because Australia has a long history of foreign investment, British, American and Japanese have always been large investors. Many of the projects currently providing billions of revenue to Australia would not have got off the ground without foreign investors.

Even Foreign owned projects still generate huge benefits to Australians,

Taxes, Wages, and a host of services all take a decent chunk of revenue before the owner books a profit and these flow on to the rest of the community.

 

[Glen48]

Even if the farm / mine is owned by Aussie farmers, the produce will still be sold to the highest bidder, and we already export lots of food.

How is this different from an Aussie starting a factory in china, to ship goods back here?

Australia needs export industries, and even if the farm was exporting 100% of its produce, its better than the land lying fallow, a farm can't operate in isolation, there would be flow on effects into the rest of the economy.

Agree people making items in China and shipping back here has been going on for yrs, but China can't mine ore and other product Australia has and ship here.
The total aim of the Chinese fed.s is to keep the population happy so there are no riots.
USA has 70 Million on food stamps just think what would happen if the Feds stopped food stamps.

 

[Value Collector]

, but China can't mine ore and other product Australia has and ship here.
.

What's your point?

 

[Glen48]

That China elite are raping the world at any expense, to get what they want to keep the people happy so the corrupt can stay in power.

 

[angellicvoices]

Ok so you are saying the Chinese government put up a few mill to buy farms,mines etc around the world the the manager can pocket the profits?

You might want to ask own Government why their not doing the same thing as the Chinese and buy up farms and mines. As long as they're paying taxes on the mines, cant see why anyones should complain, better than unproductive piece of land. By the way, Taxes benefit us if they continue to run the farm. If your argument is about feeding Aussie grown food to the millions in China, then it is no different from the vegetables that big corporations like Coles and Woolworths import from farms in China to feed Australians. That's why they call it trade, because there will be things we need and things they need. Infact there's millions of foreign multi-nationals in China doing business there. If China collapsed, many businesses in Australia will go with it. I really can't see much of an argument from you.