Self Immolation

Ferret · 2 May 2016

Another case of this at Nauru. It's a horrible thing and I do have sympathy for the detainees that feel they are driven to this desperate course of action.

At the same time, I can't help feeling that this is a totally un-Australian course of action. I'm not aware of any protests by self immolation having been carried out in Australia and I don't want to see it start here.

It's a cold, hard view, but I think a willingness to do this should make any detainee ineligible for resettlement in Australia.

banco · 2 May 2016

You can't be this stupid or this has to be a parody.

So we should add self immolation to the list of unaustralian things? What about drowning would that be more with keeping with Australian traditions? What about if they smashed a vegimite jar and slashed their wrists with it?

You do know what our unofficial national anthem waltzing maltida is about don't you?

skc · 2 May 2016

Ferret said:
Another case of this at Nauru. It's a horrible thing and I do have sympathy for the detainees that feel they are driven to this desperate course of action.

At the same time, I can't help feeling that this is a totally un-Australian course of action. I'm not aware of any protests by self immolation having been carried out in Australia and I don't want to see it start here.

It's a cold, hard view, but I think a willingness to do this should make any detainee ineligible for resettlement in Australia.

Yes. You are right. It is very inconsiderate of that detainee to burn himself to death without taking into account of your precious feelings. How dare they do such harm to themselves while disregarding other more Australian ways to self harm?

And how do you propose we determine someone's "willingness" towards self immolation? A questionnaire? An online survey?

Personally I think people who hold your views should be kicked out of this country.

sptrawler · 2 May 2016

It certainly is a choice everyone has, if they aren't happy with their situation.
Most of those in detention are there from choices they have made, no doubt if they can substantiate their claim, they wouldn't be in detention.
Does someone who decides to take extreme action, mean they bypass the regulations?

luutzu · 2 May 2016

Ferret said:
Another case of this at Nauru. It's a horrible thing and I do have sympathy for the detainees that feel they are driven to this desperate course of action.

At the same time, I can't help feeling that this is a totally un-Australian course of action. I'm not aware of any protests by self immolation having been carried out in Australia and I don't want to see it start here.

It's a cold, hard view, but I think a willingness to do this should make any detainee ineligible for resettlement in Australia.

fark. me.

banco · 2 May 2016

sptrawler said:
It certainly is a choice everyone has, if they aren't happy with their situation.
Most of those in detention are there from choices they have made, no doubt if they can substantiate their claim, they wouldn't be in detention.
Does someone who decides to take extreme action, mean they bypass the regulations?

Even if they can substantiate their claim for asylum they are still kept in manus or Nauru. Try and keep up.

Wysiwyg · 3 May 2016

It is hard to walk in the shoes of someone else but I understand their desperation for freedom. Indefinite detention was not what they expected and it would certainly drive some to behave this way. These experiences either make or break people.

SirRumpole · 3 May 2016

The guy who died was found to be a genuine refugee who is entitled to claim protection from persecution.

I suppose it could be argued that he wasn't being persecuted at Mannus, but it seems obvious that what he was undergoing was worse than the alternative of setting himself on fire.

The LNP always bring up the boat drownings and shove them in Labor's face, are the LNP willing to live with the self immolations on their conscience ?

banco · 3 May 2016

SirRumpole said:
The guy who died was found to be a genuine refugee who is entitled to claim protection from persecution.

I suppose it could be argued that he wasn't being persecuted at Mannus, but it seems obvious that what he was undergoing was worse than the alternative of setting himself on fire.

The LNP always bring up the boat drownings and shove them in Labor's face, are the LNP willing to live with the self immolations on their conscience ?

It wasn't manus it was Nauru. Him being told that he could expect to wait another decade on Nauru before being resettled in a third country is apparently what triggered his suicide.

sptrawler · 3 May 2016

banco said:
Even if they can substantiate their claim for asylum they are still kept in manus or Nauru. Try and keep up.

Is that right?
I would never have thought that, if identity and refugee status could be proved, I would have thought there is grounds for wrongful detention, illegal imprisonment and possible kidnapping.

There will obviously be, criminal charges laid against Australian officials, or aren't I keeping up?

banco · 3 May 2016

sptrawler said:
Is that right?
I would never have thought that, if identity and refugee status could be proved, I would have thought there is grounds for wrongful detention, illegal imprisonment and possible kidnapping.

There will obviously be, criminal charges laid against Australian officials, or aren't I keeping up?

My understanding is about half of them on Manus have had their refugee claims accepted. Not sure of the % on Nauru but both of the detainees that set themselves on fire had being assesed to be refugees.

Tisme · 3 May 2016

sptrawler said:
Is that right?
I would never have thought that, if identity and refugee status could be proved, I would have thought there is grounds for wrongful detention, illegal imprisonment and possible kidnapping.

There will obviously be, criminal charges laid against Australian officials, or aren't I keeping up?

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...s--but-what-happens-next-20160426-gofq6s.html

Even the "genuine" refugee intake was only 29 in the first 5 months of the 12000 promised to begin in November..... fortress Oz.

bellenuit · 3 May 2016

banco said:
My understanding is about half of them on Manus have had their refugee claims accepted. Not sure of the % on Nauru but both of the detainees that set themselves on fire had being assesed to be refugees.

Aren't those accepted as genuine refugees given the option to be released into the PNG community? I'm sure that was mentioned on the news last week.

SirRumpole · 3 May 2016

bellenuit said:
Aren't those accepted as genuine refugees given the option to be released into the PNG community? I'm sure that was mentioned on the news last week.

Yes, but the locals hate them and beat them up. Those who have been released have tried to get back into the camp.

orr · 3 May 2016

Ferret said:
At the same time, I can't help feeling that this is a totally un-Australian course of action. I'm not aware of any protests by self immolation having been carried out in Australia and I don't want to see it start here.

Your completely correct Ferret; But it's all in the 'timing'. Earlier Australian Government policy sent Snider 50 calibre sniper rifles to the what is now the Northern Territory, with virtually unlimited ammo... Alexander Downers Grand Dad was in charge of that.

I'll let you guess what they were used for... here's a hint. The 'pickaninny's' were harder to hit, so they just dashed out their orphaned skulls on trees and rocks... Far more 'humane' than letting them die of exposure.
Not a story that rates highly on the Australian history taught to school kiddy's these days. But very very 'Australian'

The same mentality that approved of the Snider's back then is echoed today. And the ignominy of it proponents is just as assured.

Ferret · 7 May 2016

skc said:
And how do you propose we determine someone's "willingness" towards self immolation? A questionnaire? An online survey

Well carrying out the act would be a pretty good indication, Duh!!!!

Ferret · 7 May 2016

banco said:
So we should add self immolation to the list of unaustralian things? What about drowning would that be more with keeping with Australian traditions? What about if they smashed a vegimite jar and slashed their wrists with it?

What a ridiculous comparison.
Plenty of ways to escape an intolerable situation through suicide. Self immolation is the act of a fanatic.

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