Australian (ASX) Stock Market Forum

Scams, whose fault?

Jump to new
I must be on a list.
Have had two more calls today from people with obviously non English backgrounds telling me they were from Telstra.
The first one hung up on me when I pretended to be totally deaf and asked if he could send me a text.
The second hung up almost as soon as I said hello in my oldest voice.
One call ostensibly from Salisbury in STh Australia, the other from Hermitage Tasmania.
Wonder what their success rate is?
Mick
 
mullokintyre said:
One call ostensibly from Salisbury in STh Australia, the other from Hermitage Tasmania.
Click to expand...
Both are real places.

The former is suburban Adelaide. Not a particularly likely location for any kind of call centre etc but not totally implausible.

The latter is literally just a couple of farm houses in the middle of nowhere. It's a place marked on the map but it's not an actual town of any sort and from memory the road is gravel leading in from the south. No chance anyone's running a call centre or anything like that there. Well, not unless the farmer's got nothing else to do today. :laugh:
 
Smurf1976 said:
Both are real places.

The former is suburban Adelaide. Not a particularly likely location for any kind of call centre etc but not totally implausible.

The latter is literally just a couple of farm houses in the middle of nowhere. It's a place marked on the map but it's not an actual town of any sort and from memory the road is gravel leading in from the south. No chance anyone's running a call centre or anything like that there. Well, not unless the farmer's got nothing else to do today. :laugh:
Click to expand...
The caller ID is spoofed by the hacker.
Its quite easy if using VOIP, as there is no originating number , just an IP address.
The caller can attach any number they want.
Mick
 
sptrawler said:
The Banks should send a short clip from the movie "The Beekeeper", where the lady gets scammed of a couple of million, by a call centre.

The movie was over the top, but it did show how scammers just get remote access, with people who are computer illiterate.
The opening scene of the clip is at the end of the scam scene, the clip gets a bit rough after that, so be warned.
It would be interesting if scam centers were sorted out this way, recruiting would get difficult for them. :cool:

Click to expand...


The "Your computer is infected "scam is very effective.

The movie looks like fun. It seems to be on You Tube in full. 1.5 millions views in 4 days


Just watched the first 10 minutes of the show. The pitch that manages to persuade the woman is clever and quite plausible.
Very, very good..:(
And very satisfying :)
 
Last edited:
Not quite a scam. Just outright corporate deception.

Take away message Don't trust Grays online auction.

1721449838516.png
 
The banks are getting better at delaying payments, I actually pre purchased some U.S airline tickets online the other day and the payment wouldn't go through.
I then received a phone call from the banks fraud detection unit and when I explained it was me that was purchasing the tickets, they cleared the payment.


A Queensland couple who thought they were handing over their hard earned savings to invest in corporate bonds have escaped making a horrifying mistake of sending $350,000 to a scammer with the help of their bank.
Ricky and Elaine, who have asked to not have their surname published, had been researching corporate bonds to invest in after selling their home.

But after selecting one that seemed legitimate, their future success quickly became a living nightmare when they had transferred their cash over to a scammer masquerading as an investment company called Investment Gateway.

After inquiring about the company, Ricky began emailing and speaking on the phone directly with a man who identified himself as Mark Edwards.

A quick Google search appeared to show Mark Edwards to be a reputable investor who had been featured in several stories about the stockmarket.

“I didn’t do anything till I did all my research,” Ricky told NewsWire.

“I got the company details and put them into ASIC and it was listed some time since 2003, it had been going for quite some time, and I looked at their other financial institutions.”

Ricky said the bonds were attached to Commonwealth Bank, and again when he googled the code it appeared on the London Stock Exchange and checked all of his boxes.

Eventually, the couple decided to send their money through to the company to buy the bonds they’d been promised.

It was late on a Friday and Ricky was on the phone with “Mr Edwards” who was talking him through the website he’d sent him to secure escrow.

“We did that part of the procedure but it was like leading a lamb to slaughter,” Ricky said.

“They managed to separate you from being concerned about where your money goes to worrying about the task about securing the bonds.”

Ricky said once the couple chose which escrow to use, everything started happening “quite quickly” before entering the final step of sending through the money.
“It came time to put the transfer the money and it got to Westpac and Westpac asked all these questions,” he said.

“While he was on the line he kept saying ‘you’re bound to get all these questions’.

“While he was talking, I’d googled the (escrow) company and it’s a real company.”

After the transfer was completed, Ricky said he discovered the escrow company had only been set up four days before the deal.

While trying to call “Mr Edwards” repeatedly with no answer, Ricky kept searching online for more details about the escrow company where he’d just sent his money.

“I looked at the BSB but it was for the ANZ bank in Byron Bay,” he said.

“If it looked like a real corporate company in Melbourne, why did it have a Tuncurry address while using a Byron Bay bank.”

That’s when it clicked.

“I’d been scammed,” Ricky said.

“I’m one of the most careful guys you can come across, and he still got me.

“It was almost like telephone numbers, you forgot the real value of it.”

Ricky and his wife were “nervous all night” while they waited to call Westpac at 8am on Saturday morning.

“We rung up Westpac and the lady on the end of the phone was so good and said ‘the money is coming back into your account’ and they would have called us if we hadn’t called them,” he said.

“I was so relieved.

“I’d have lost my money if it wasn’t for that.”

The couple’s hard earned cash had been protected by Westpac’s SaferPay capability which puts a 24-hour hold on transfers the bank flags as a potential scam.

Westpac Head of Fraud Prevention Ben Young said the SaferPay capability allows people to avoid “considerable heartache”.

“Through the series of questions asked as part of Westpac’s SaferPay capability, the transfer was flagged as being a result of a potential scam and put on hold,” Mr Young said.
 
sptrawler said:
The banks are getting better at delaying payments, I actually pre purchased some U.S airline tickets online the other day and the payment wouldn't go through.
I then received a phone call from the banks fraud detection unit and when I explained it was me that was purchasing the tickets, they cleared the payment.


A Queensland couple who thought they were handing over their hard earned savings to invest in corporate bonds have escaped making a horrifying mistake of sending $350,000 to a scammer with the help of their bank.
Ricky and Elaine, who have asked to not have their surname published, had been researching corporate bonds to invest in after selling their home.

But after selecting one that seemed legitimate, their future success quickly became a living nightmare when they had transferred their cash over to a scammer masquerading as an investment company called Investment Gateway.

After inquiring about the company, Ricky began emailing and speaking on the phone directly with a man who identified himself as Mark Edwards.

A quick Google search appeared to show Mark Edwards to be a reputable investor who had been featured in several stories about the stockmarket.

“I didn’t do anything till I did all my research,” Ricky told NewsWire.

“I got the company details and put them into ASIC and it was listed some time since 2003, it had been going for quite some time, and I looked at their other financial institutions.”

Ricky said the bonds were attached to Commonwealth Bank, and again when he googled the code it appeared on the London Stock Exchange and checked all of his boxes.

Eventually, the couple decided to send their money through to the company to buy the bonds they’d been promised.

It was late on a Friday and Ricky was on the phone with “Mr Edwards” who was talking him through the website he’d sent him to secure escrow.

“We did that part of the procedure but it was like leading a lamb to slaughter,” Ricky said.

“They managed to separate you from being concerned about where your money goes to worrying about the task about securing the bonds.”

Ricky said once the couple chose which escrow to use, everything started happening “quite quickly” before entering the final step of sending through the money.
“It came time to put the transfer the money and it got to Westpac and Westpac asked all these questions,” he said.

“While he was on the line he kept saying ‘you’re bound to get all these questions’.

“While he was talking, I’d googled the (escrow) company and it’s a real company.”

After the transfer was completed, Ricky said he discovered the escrow company had only been set up four days before the deal.

While trying to call “Mr Edwards” repeatedly with no answer, Ricky kept searching online for more details about the escrow company where he’d just sent his money.

“I looked at the BSB but it was for the ANZ bank in Byron Bay,” he said.

“If it looked like a real corporate company in Melbourne, why did it have a Tuncurry address while using a Byron Bay bank.”

That’s when it clicked.

“I’d been scammed,” Ricky said.

“I’m one of the most careful guys you can come across, and he still got me.

“It was almost like telephone numbers, you forgot the real value of it.”

Ricky and his wife were “nervous all night” while they waited to call Westpac at 8am on Saturday morning.

“We rung up Westpac and the lady on the end of the phone was so good and said ‘the money is coming back into your account’ and they would have called us if we hadn’t called them,” he said.

“I was so relieved.

“I’d have lost my money if it wasn’t for that.”

The couple’s hard earned cash had been protected by Westpac’s SaferPay capability which puts a 24-hour hold on transfers the bank flags as a potential scam.

Westpac Head of Fraud Prevention Ben Young said the SaferPay capability allows people to avoid “considerable heartache”.

“Through the series of questions asked as part of Westpac’s SaferPay capability, the transfer was flagged as being a result of a potential scam and put on hold,” Mr Young said.
Click to expand...
A very lucky couple and good on Westpac for having the SaferPay setup.

We bank with Bank West here in WA and if we make a payment to someone who is not on our payment list, the payment does not go through until the Bank verifies it is us and a legit payment.
It doesn't matter what the amount is whether it be $10 or $10,000.
 
farmerge said:
A very lucky couple and good on Westpac for having the SaferPay setup.

We bank with Bank West here in WA and if we make a payment to someone who is not on our payment list, the payment does not go through until the Bank verifies it is us and a legit payment.
It doesn't matter what the amount is whether it be $10 or $10,000.
Click to expand...

Indeed. What a practical, thoughtful way for the Bank to protect its legit customers and their good name as responsible banking partner.

Did that sound (a touch) ironical ? The fact is that the processes Bank West put in place do make eminent sense and always have. However in the name of speed, staff economies, higher profits and a "hands off " approach to customers this sort of overview/intervention has not been the norm for Australian banking practice.

Last year I had a very vivid exposure to how such a practical approach to protecting legit customer funds can work. A close family friend in Canada was tricked into allowing a scammer to get into his bank account. It was drained as he watched it. The good news was that Royal Bank of Canada flagged the transactions as suss and placed them in a RBA account before it was finally exited. Saved by good practice.
 
Smurf1976 said:
The latter is literally just a couple of farm houses in the middle of nowhere. It's a place marked on the map but it's not an actual town of any sort and from memory the road is gravel leading in from the south. No chance anyone's running a call centre or anything like that there.
Click to expand...
good surf break at the end of the gravel road... when the swell pushes in.
 
Another very interesting story on the ABC around the brazenness and skill of phishers . The really disturbing element of the story however is that police were informed in detail about this guy by people who had undertaken very detailed research on his activities. It was all there. Yet nothing happened for a long time.

( That rings true for me as well. Years ago I did research on a particularly effective internet scam and repeatedly contacted ASIC with the information. They refused to speak to me because I hadn't been scammed yet! Months later it all blew up but the refusal to check out what was clearly a very prosperous scam was disturbing)

Adrian Katong ran a one-stop shop for phishing scams. Here's how he was tracked down​

7.30
/ By Hagar Cohen and Alex McDonald
Posted 3h ago3 hours ago
1080&cropW=1920&xPos=0&yPos=0&width=862&height=485.jpg

Adrian Katong is the man behind one of the world's largest phishing operations. (Supplied: Facebook)

Link copied


In short:​

Adrian Katong is being investigated by police in three jurisdictions over his role in one of the world's largest phishing operations.
Seven months after his arrest, Mr Katong still has not been charged.

What's next?​

The Malaysian police told the ABC it is still gathering intelligence for more analysis, while the AFP says it is continuing to work with foreign partners on the case.

www.abc.net.au

The FBI, AFP and Malaysian police are all chasing Adrian Katong. His syndicate has stolen millions

The FBI, AFP and Malaysian police have all failed to charge Adrian Katong. In the meantime the phishing syndicate operator is leading a life of luxury and becoming more brazen in his operations that have taken millions of dollars from Australians.
www.abc.net.au www.abc.net.au
 
A rant.

I am of the opinion that, due to people claiming to be scammed and the banks should "do something", the populace will at some point become inconvenienced and complain the banks are "doing something."

As background, I have a debit card which I use for petrol, groceries and the like. I have a recurring scheduled amount each week to that card. The amount available on the debit card can fluctuate depending on my spending but I prefer to keep it below a certain limit.

Yesterday, I attempted to transfer an amount (less than $200) from that debit card to another of my accounts. It is the first time I have transferred funds from the debit card to that account i.e. a new payee. Subsequently, I received a text advising the transfer was suspicious, the internet account was blocked and to call the number provided. I didn't and called the number on the back of the debit card.

Wow, talk abut being put through the wringer. How much do you normally spend on groceries? Have you clicked on any links? Describe your recent transactions? Have you responded to any calls about your account? You have been sent a one-off code to an telephone number ending in xxx, what is that code?

OK. transfer is approved but you understand if the receiving account isn't yours you will not receive the funds back. You now need to reset your internet account password.

Fine.

Go through the process to reset and then there is a 2FA on the screen advising the one-off code has been sent to a number I haven't had for over two decades. Note, I did receive the previous text blocking the transfer and the one-off code to confirm it was me. That's a system glitch involving data cleansing and while odd not really a big issue as far I'm concerned.

Another call made. To get around the problem, I needed to re-register the account. Go through that process and receive the 2FA. All good at last. However, I also have the bank app on my phone which I use occasionally only to check the account balance and nothing else. Yep, you guessed it, the account details were not recognised so I also had to set it up again.

So for a minor amount I probably spent around an hour on the phone and had to go through a messy process to re-register accounts for this bank.

I'm not blaming the bank but I do point the finger at those who complain about being scammed and it's all the banks fault and no responsibility rests with them. Soon I reckon there will be complaints about the banks at the process they have adopted due to those complaints. We'd better get used to it.
 
After six months, the bank advised it has determined I was not at fault when my card was used fraudulently to purchase goods from a jeweller and make a donation to some obscure overseas organisation. All for $400 in total. I suspect whatever the bank did to investigate the matter would have cost more than that but it's now a cost of doing business and that cost will somehow flow through to us as customers.
 
Bellcose said:
After six months, the bank advised it has determined I was not at fault when my card was used fraudulently to purchase goods from a jeweller and make a donation to some obscure overseas organisation. All for $400 in total. I suspect whatever the bank did to investigate the matter would have cost more than that but it's now a cost of doing business and that cost will somehow flow through to us as customers.
Click to expand...
Hopefully and happily you will be the recipient of the $400 in the bank's good time.
 
Bellcose said:
The bank re-credited the amount on a temporary basis about two weeks after I reported the fraudulent use. I think that was a nice gesture.
Click to expand...
A cynic might suggest they knew straight away that it was not your carelessness that led to the fraudulent transactions, but they string out the announcement for six months to pretend they are doing some serious forensic investigative work.
Mick (the cynic).
 
mullokintyre said:
A cynic might suggest they knew straight away that it was not your carelessness that led to the fraudulent transactions, but they string out the announcement for six months to pretend they are doing some serious forensic investigative work.
Mick (the cynic).
Click to expand...

Maybe but all I required was my funds being returned so I really could not care less if the bank did or did not undertake any investigations. The fact the money was re-credited, albeit on a supposedly temporary basis,within two weeks was not only a nice gesture but the indication the cards were falling my way. The bank could been bloody-minded and held the funds back for a long time.
 
Bellcose said:
Maybe but all I required was my funds being returned so I really could not care less if the bank did or did not undertake any investigations. The fact the money was re-credited, albeit on a supposedly temporary basis,within two weeks was not only a nice gesture but the indication the cards were falling my way. The bank could been bloody-minded and held the funds back for a long time.
Click to expand...
And if that had been the case one could be cynical and suggest that is the thieving banks for you.
Happily not in your case.
 
Doug thought he did his due diligence. He still lost $1m to scammers

ByEmily Chantiri​

12 November, 2024


After receiving a payout from a head-on collision, Queensland-based businessman Doug Wright wanted to invest the money. He came across an advertisement from a firm on Facebook, looking for investors and promising high returns on their investment.
Wright filled out the online form and included his contact details. That simple interaction would end up costing him $1 million.

After receiving a call from an individual claiming to work for the firm, Wright was told his colleague would soon contact him to set up an account. Wright checked the company and tracked its investment returns before investing.
“After I saw how much the fund was returning, I asked them for a contract in writing,” he says.

Wright thought he was sending money to MCI, a legitimate investment firm based out of Poland. Little did he know that the scammers had copied web pages from MCI to scam people.

“I’d done my due diligence on what, I thought, was a reputable company. The fake website used by the scammers copied the MCI website, even had the same directors and photos,” he says.
Over the course of five months, Wright received returns on his initial investments until all communication suddenly stopped.
“I was due for my next return, then nothing. I was constantly chasing them up. They didn’t return my calls,” he says. “It hit me; I’d realised it was a scam – I’d lost close to $1 million.”

Wright’s story is far from uncommon. In 2023, the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission’s (ACCC) ScamWatch reported losses of nearly $300 million for investment and cryptocurrency scams, affecting around 8000 people.
A spokesperson for the ACCC said scams are the work of organised crime groups who have years of experience in perfecting scam scripts, knowing what works with certain people and using a mixture of reward, fear and loneliness to trick people.
Australia’s high rate of gambling and risk-taking behaviour may also contribute. Scammers often exploit these tendencies.
UNSW Business School’s Dr Kam-Fung (Henry) Cheung
Click to expand...
After realising his error, Wright immediately contacted the Australian authorities. “They had no real interest and today, after all this time, there is still no progress,” he says.
Taking matters into his hands he hired a private investigator, which led him to the culprit, living in Israel.

“I really wanted to bring the guy to justice, but that would have cost $250,000 for court proceedings in Israel,” he says. It took him 12 months to recover from the ordeal.

Everyone is vulnerable​

Everyone is vulnerable to scams at certain times in their life.
“(There are) dating and romance scams after a relation breakdown, a job scam when the cost-of-living crisis is high, investment scams when you may have money and you want to invest it,” the ACCC says.
Scammers use techniques to pretend to be someone else, a legitimate business or even a celebrity. They can set up fake email addresses or accounts pretending to be celebrities or even take over Facebook or Instagram accounts of people you know.

UNSW Business School’s Dr Kam-Fung (Henry) Cheung and Shesha J Maheshwari say financial desperation and a lack of awareness contribute to why many individuals today are falling for scams. According to the pair, there are six key reasons people fall for scams.

  • Financial desperation. When faced with financial difficulties or a desire for quick financial gains, people become more vulnerable to scams promising high investment returns.
  • Trust and authority. By masquerading as trusted individuals, posing as government officials, company representatives, or law enforcement, scammers exploit trust to convince victims to share personal information.
  • Social engineering. Scammers exploit personal relationships and connections to manipulate victims and make them appear more legitimate and trustworthy.
  • Lack of awareness. Many people are unaware of the varying types of scams that exist, such as those involving cryptocurrencies and blockchain.
  • Lack of vigilance. Victims are busy and distracted, meaning they are less vigilant than they would usually be.
  • Emotional triggers. Scammers create a sense of urgency, fear or excitement, causing their victims to act irrationally.
Australians are also more susceptible to scams due to a combination of factors, Dr Cheung adds, including a generally high level of trust in authorities and institutions.
“Australia’s high rate of gambling and risk-taking behaviour may also contribute. Scammers often exploit these tendencies with promises of quick returns and high rewards,” he says.

Anti-scam framework under way​

In 2023 budget, the Australian government invested $86.5 million as part of its anti-scam platform. This included establishing the National Anti-Scam Centre within the ACCC. In September 2024, the government released legislation to establish a new Scams Prevention Framework for public consultation.
The framework establishes scam prevention principles in legislation that will impose mandatory obligations on specific sectors to help prevent, detect, report, disrupt and respond to scams. Initially, it will apply to banks, telecommunications, digital platform service providers and social media companies.
Wright has one piece of advice for any would-be investors. “Learn how to do it yourself so you are in charge of your money, and also don’t put your eggs in one basket.”
To report a scam or seek assistance, visit the National Scam Centre website.

  • Advice given in this article is not advice. open your eyes, people
  • define due diligence
think I'll advertise on Facebook, seems sensible / lucrative .
 
Top