Rio Tinto executive held in China

2020hindsight said:

http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2008/s2633488.htm


gee whiz lol
seems to have cut the legs out from under you blokes who want to pin it all on Rudd

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Mate, you should never quote the abc in rational debate. Its a bit like quoting Pravda.

They are so left they make the cfmeu look like good catlick choirboys

gg

hey gg , I'm not quoting ABC - I'm quoting your mate, Colin Barnett.

Here's that transcript - finally -
http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2008/s2633488.htm

MARK COLVIN: He did say yesterday I think in Shanghai that we should stop fussing about Stern Hu.

TOM IGGULDEN: Indeed and he's reiterated that again today saying that Australian business has to quote him "dropped the ball" when it comes to Stern Hu and that we should be really focussing on getting on and doing business.

But we did ask him about the meeting he had today with Chinalco which is the company that tried to take a stake in Rio Tinto, then was rebuffed, which some say has caused the bad blood that may have ultimately lead to Mr Hu's arrest. And here's a little of what he told us when we asked him about that meeting.

COLIN BARNETT: Chinalco were clearly disappointed that the deal with Rio Tinto didn't go through however, I think they have put that to one side.

They are still the largest single shareholder in Rio Tinto. They expressed their desire to be more involved in mining and project development in Western Australia and I encouraged them to take an interest in exploration so I believe Chinalco will become far better known and far more involved in the Australian mining industry in years to come. It was a very good meeting.

TOM IGGULDEN: Was there any discussion of the Stern Hu case when it came to Chinalco?

COLIN BARNETT: No, that's not appropriate.

MARK COLVIN: Not appropriate?

TOM IGGULDEN: Not appropriate. Yes, you can hear from that remark he's really not at all keen to raise this issue with anyone bearing in mind that Chinalco is a state-owned company here.

MARK COLVIN: And so he wasn't going anywhere near the question of whether Chinalco had actually had a hand in the arrest?

TOM IGGULDEN: When I ask him that question point blank, he said that wasn't for him to answer. I mean he's really not wanting to talk about this issue at all, brushing away most of the questions to do with it and the message from him basically is "let's just get on with doing business".

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I don't agree that you can ignore the Hu case -

but likewise, you can't pin everything on Rudd (and between Rudd and Barnett, you'd have to say that Rudd is the far more concerned. Barnett goes close to writing off Hu as a lost cause yes?)

If you want to achieve some progress for Stern Hu, then don't keep crowing about it (even before any evidence was out), or rather trying to turn it into a political football. They are acting on it in the background. .

Political football 2020? TOO LATE. The Chinese warned Rudd not to go this path and yet he got the Americans involved via "humanitarian issues". This only proceeded to rely on second hand info after the Chinese decided to let Hu speak to the Oz consulate?? Colin Barnett is Garpal's mate ? I had Colin on speakerphone the other day and he made no mention of a certain Mr Gumnut to me??

trainspotter said:

Political football 2020? TOO LATE. The Chinese warned Rudd not to go this path and yet he got the Americans involved via "humanitarian issues". This only proceeded to rely on second hand info after the Chinese decided to let Hu speak to the Oz consulate?? Colin Barnett is Garpal's mate ? I had Colin on speakerphone the other day and he made no mention of a certain Mr Gumnut to me??

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Hell - I had GG on speaker the other day, and he says he knows him well ??

Like the source of his that said that Peter Costello was gonna take over Lib leadership lol.

PS , Still I expect Milne to write equally strongly against Barnett. (Maybe he has already? - you might know)

trainspotter said:

Political football 2020? TOO LATE. The Chinese warned Rudd not to go this path ...

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Trouble was Malcolm Turnbull and Co (within hours of the news of the arrest breaking) - and Milne of course - were warning him that if he didn't go this path ... etc.

Are you now saying Rudd should NOT have acted. Hard to keep up with you blokes

Hummm... food for thought! I feel it wont affect share price or trade relations in the future. Its quite timely it managed to draw world headlines from the recent genocide of minorities in the western regions. I feel its part of the national action plan to divert the news headlines presented as they have billions to loose in the Xinjiang region. A small price for upsetting RIO and a minor speed bump for world trade relations in China. Once Western china is silenced all will be forgotten about, RIO gets released and everything back full steam.

Only my view...

2020hindsight said:

ok ok
getting a bit shrill there ts.

1a. How well do you now garpul lol? (PS I'm simply quoting a thread back there - look at the link, - it's ancient history I concede, but you'll catch up).
https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=321462
It's from a year ago (and is one of dozens of his on that theme).
This isn't dredging up history - it's just stating an opinion the man has consistently held.

Hey you might be right - maybe he doesn't even believe it himself any more lol.

1b. I could ask "Who you calling a laborite?" but why dispel your illusions.

2. and 3. Trubel is Turnbull's expressed opinion (on hour 1) was to go in boots and all - and Rudd (and Smith) go in treading diplomatically (after collecting a few facts, sheesh) - and you still manage to imply "too much intervention".

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Sorry it has taken so long to reply to your post 2020. I had to see the doctor and have my funnybone put back in.

1a) Garpal is notorius for his ability to say something outlandish and the pack will swarm around his comments like flies to ****. It is bloody funny to watch and I am sure he gets a kick out of it. Have you not noticed?? By the way, fully aware of the thread he created. It seems you take things a little too seriously 2020.

1b) How did you know I was talking to you? You seem quick to respond when poked?

2 & 3) It is his job to behave in this manner. That's why they call it opposition. Surely you of all people would be able to grasp this concept? What I have CONSISTENTLY implied is that our beloved commander of the good ship "Credit Card" has tripped over his dick on this one. I can speak Mandarin, I am an ex Chinese Diplomat. I am getting nowhere, call in the Yanks. Nothing seems to have worked.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/07/17/2628411.htm read the last sentence.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/07/23/2634561.htm?section=justin
Self explanatory for those who want to do business in China

*crackle* Sorry guys and gals. Can we lay of the mod squad please. I am getting a tad nervous with all this chattering on the radio. Victor Charlie Charlie, over and out. _____________________ transmission end.

Back to the topic of the thread.

Could it be sour grapes by the Chinese after the 195 billion joint venture with Rio Tinto? You know, to save a bit of face. They pulled out of the deal and under the disguise of "industrial espionage"? Someone smarter than me has probably already written this.

"If the Rio arrests mark the beginning of a Chinese war to remake the global ore market more to China’s liking, Beijing might want to think again…Ensuring nobody wants to do a business deal with China for fear of being charged with a death penalty crime hardly improves the case." Plagarised to the point of cut and paste from another website. (but sums it up nicely I thought)

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/business/story/0,28124,25918664-5005200,00.html

Haaaaa, missa chinese bossman, I velly confoosed over tis. Ferse yousay missa Hu blibe udder pleeple, now yousay he takada cash. Haaaa, which one isit? Maybe you all wingada wong number.

So did Hu bribe others, or receive bribes, or both? If any of this is proven then there will be some interesting times ahead for Rio. How are they going to explain this? This sort of stuff is also illegal in "the West".

So if this isn't a giant dummy spit by the Chinese for loosing out on Rio, then I'll walk backwards across the Irish Sea. Maybe in China they do things their way but I think the Chinese (gummint, China Inc, etc) is having a big lesson on how business is done in the West. So what if they don't like it. IMO the Chinese have scored an own goal on this one.

Interesting news today

First of all Mr Hue has been relieved from espionage and now charged for bribing the Chinese officials

Secondly Sam Walsh relieved and ready to fight in court. I heard in ABC and all he kept on saying that whatever Hue did was known to his managers. INteresting as if he gets stuffed then few managers will be beheaded economically too

Mrs Hue decided to join reuniion at university.

All good news and why not

Some cynism is our protection to citizen in overseas seems to be very much behind the scene

As I heard in radio about the behind the scene work for Mr Hue begs the question how much were paid to another set of Chinese government officials to down grade his espionage claim ?

What Rio really did to Chinese lords so that they thought enough is enough.
You got the lesson and now don't stuff up any more

One of the Rio executives also said in a tacit way that bribing to others is an acceptable commercial practice.

So just 2+2 = 4 or 5 (if I include the bribes included in 5)

Miner said:

Interesting news today

First of all Mr Hue has been relieved from espionage and now charged for bribing the Chinese officials

Secondly Sam Walsh relieved and ready to fight in court. I heard in ABC and all he kept on saying that whatever Hue did was known to his managers. INteresting as if he gets stuffed then few managers will be beheaded economically too

Mrs Hue decided to join reuniion at university.

All good news and why not

Some cynism is our protection to citizen in overseas seems to be very much behind the scene

As I heard in radio about the behind the scene work for Mr Hue begs the question how much were paid to another set of Chinese government officials to down grade his espionage claim ?

What Rio really did to Chinese lords so that they thought enough is enough.
You got the lesson and now don't stuff up any more

One of the Rio executives also said in a tacit way that bribing to others is an acceptable commercial practice.

So just 2+2 = 4 or 5 (if I include the bribes included in 5)

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I don't think the charges were reduced by bribery, but rather the Chinese Government/Politburo realising there are larger things at play. Can you imagine Wayne Swan approving Yanzhou Coal Mining Co's takeover of Felix Resources with an Australian citizen facing the death penalty on what was a trumped up charge? Can you imagine the impact on foreign investment in China were they to press for espionage charges?

In any case, who cares the reasoning for it. No longer being charged with stealing state secrets means they no longer face the death penalty.

Rio Tinto employees formally arrested by China
The group could well end up on trial on corporate espionage charges but seems to have escaped the charge of stealing state secrets

Author: Chris Buckley
Posted: Wednesday , 12 Aug 2009
http://www.mineweb.co.za/mineweb/vie...7398&sn=Detail

BEIJING, (Reuters) -

Chinese prosecutors have formally arrested four employees of Anglo-Australian mining giant Rio Tinto on suspicion of obtaining commercial secrets and bribery, the official Xinhua news agency reported on Wednesday.

Australian Stern Hu and three Chinese staff of the world's second-biggest iron ore producer are suspected of "using improper means to obtain commercial secrets about our country's steel businesses", Xinhua cited prosecutors in Shanghai as saying.

The commercial secrets charge can bring jail terms of up to 3 years, or 7 years in "especially serious" cases [ID:nPEK372992]. The procuratorate, or prosecutors, also approved their arrest on suspicion of "commercial bribery", said the Xinhua report.

Xinhua did not mention accusations of stealing state secrets, a sweeping charge raised in earlier reports, which can attract tougher sentences.

"The procuratoratial organ conducted investigations and believes that it has evidence for suspecting the four, including Stern Hu, of the above crimes," said the Xinhua report.

Hu and the three other members of Rio Tinto's Shanghai-based iron ore marketing team -- Liu Caikui, Ge Minqiang and Wang Yong -- were detained on July 5. Hu, a Chinese-born Australian citizen and head of the team, was accused of obtaining the Chinese steel industry's negotiating stance in iron ore price talks, sources have said. Iron ore is used to make steel.

The Rio case has cast a shadow over Australia-China trade, worth $53 billion in two-way terms in 2008. But China's sidelining, for now, of the graver state secrets accusations may indicate an effort to cool political contention over the matter.

"That lowers the temperature," said Jerome Cohen, an expert on Chinese law at New York University, speaking of the absence of the state secrets accusations.

"That puts this as a white collar crime, a commercial crime, and not espionage involving state secrets."

Chinese Vice Minister of Commerce, Fu Ziying, told a news conference in Beijing the case would receive a "fair verdict" -- a term suggesting a trial is certain -- and said it showed his government wanted to create a fair and open marketplace.

"I believe this case will not, and should not, affect the healthy and stable development of Chinese-Australian bilateral trade and economic relations," he said.

The arrests do not amount to a decision to go to trial but allow authorities to continue investigating, said Mo Shaoping, a prominent criminal lawyer in Beijing.

"The arrest means the suspects remain in detention and the police can continue investigations, usually for up to two more months," Mo told Reuters.

Cohen said that without the state secrets accusations, which authorities can use to justify keeping suspects entirely isolated, the Rio suspects stand a stronger chance of being allowed to see lawyers.

Rio Tinto's shares have fallen about 5% from their close at the end of last week of A$60.57, before a weekend report from China that said the company had been spying for six years.

The shares were at A$57.35 by 0400 GMT on Wednesday.

Rival BHP Billiton (BHP.AX: Quote)(BLT.L: Quote) has fallen about 1.3% to A$37.50 over the same period and the benchmark Australian S&P/ASX 200 index has risen about 0.6%.

NO COMMENT FROM RIO

Rio Tinto declined to comment when contacted by Reuters about the arrests. Rio has previously said the four did nothing wrong.

Australia's Foreign Ministry said Australian diplomats in Shanghai were informed of the arrests late on Tuesday but a spokeswoman refused to comment on whether China had softened its position by using the commercial secrets charge.

"We are not prepared to speculate, though the range of possible penalties under these articles is less severe than for state secrets," the spokeswoman said.

Prime Minister Kevin Rudd has warned China it had significant economic interests at stake in detaining Hu and that the world was watching how it handled a case that has highlighted the risks of doing business in the world's third-largest economy.

Australia exported $15 billion worth of iron ore to China in 2008, accounting for 41% of China's iron ore imports in that period.

The Xinhua report also said that in recent days Chinese steel executives had been formally arrested on suspicion of "providing commercial secrets" to Hu.

An online article published in a magazine run by China's state secrets agency at the weekend said Rio spied on Chinese mills for six years, resulting in the mills overpaying $102 billion for iron ore, Rio Tinto's biggest earner.

The Australian government on Tuesday dismissed the Chinese report, which had rattled investors.

"I think they (China) wanted to get the bad PR behind them as much as they could but at the same time get a message out to corporations operating in China," Scott Harrison of Pacific Strategies and Assessments, an Asia-focused risk consultancy company, told Reuters of the formal arrests.

"Although it may reduce international pressure, at the grassroots level I don't think its going to reduce the concerns of companies operating here," he said.

(Additional reporting by Emma Graham-Harrison in Beijing, Joseph Chaney in Sydney and Rob Taylor in Canberra; Editing by Dean Yates)

Miner said:

...First of all Mr Hue has been relieved from espionage and now charged for bribing the Chinese officials...

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Gratuities, bribes if you will have been an integral part of Chinese commerce for 3,500 years. They invented the practice!

Of course the real reason these guys were arrested was that the big guys were pissed off that they couldn't get their own way with Rio!!!

Your kidding.
You mean under handed palm greasing actually happens in the world of business.
Good God.

lol... so naive

China did not take kindly to criticisms by Stephen Smith that the 10 year sentence for Stern Hu was harsh. By Chinese standards it was quite moderate. A Chinese national would probably have received a death sentence.

AAP
March 23, 2010

Meanwhile, an Australian expert says Hu could walk free.

Ron Huisken, a China expert with the Australian National University's strategic and defence studies centre, said the guilty plea could be part of an arrangement which would free Hu, who has been in prison since July.

The plea could allow China to save face in indicating there had been wrongdoing on Hu's part.

"This nudges towards an outcome where there's some veracity to the problem but not as much as was alleged and everyone's happy, so to speak," Dr Huisken told AAP.

"I'd be surprised if he gets jail time."

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Good call Dr Huskey.
So much for the experts.

Macquack said:

AAP
March 23, 2010


Good call Dr Huskey.
So much for the experts.

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Maybe save the congratulations until it actually happens.

If you change the letters around on Rio Tinto they become RioT into. Nothing to do with BHP.

BHP Billiton says it is cooperating with US authorities in an investigation into possible corruption involving government officials.

The miner would not say where the possible violations occurred, except to say that they did not involve China, or BHP Billiton's marketing or sales activities.

The company said the matter related "primarily to certain terminated minerals exploration projects".

Information about the investigation was included in the company's quarterly exploration and development report, which was released this morning.

BHP Billiton said it had provided information to the US Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) "following requests for information" from the Commission "as a part of an investigation relating primarily to certain terminated minerals exploration projects.

http://www.news.com.au/business/bre...staff-corruption/story-e6frfkur-1225856253649