If all business cows in China are holy?

[matty2.0]

Re: Are all business cows in China are holy?

Nice to see you have a spine. What other human rights should we forget in the search of greater monetary growth? I'm guessing you would be happy to sacrifice a lot so long as it doesn't affect you personally.

Okay ... maybe I went overboard.
But we should still tread with caution when something comes up and it affects our foreign relations with China.

 

[Glen48]

Re: Are all business cows in China are holy?

That building killed 1 worker when it collapsed at 5:30am makes you wonder about the other ones in the back ground..do you dig under all the check footings?... This is Chinese logic look at what they have done all because some people most likely took a bribe to allow the building/s to be constructed and now have a full blown disaster... would you buy a unit/s from this builder?

 

[darnsmall]

Re: Are all business cows in China are holy?

Okay ... maybe I went overboard.
But we should still tread with caution when something comes up and it affects our foreign relations with China.

overboard?
Are you kidding!!! I think we should offer up monthly sacrifices to China to keep them happy if they want...so long as its not me

 

[mikes]

Re: Are all business cows in China are holy?

holy cows - the non-us currency

it is called investing any loose cash in the oz quarry - oz companies in copper, gold, gas, iron ore, coal, etc. - hope this stretches to bbi's for sale coal loader in qld, which if not working properly would stuff some oz resources companies.

 

[shag]

Re: Are all business cows in China are holy?

That building killed 1 worker when it collapsed at 5:30am makes you wonder about the other ones in the back ground..do you dig under all the check footings?... This is Chinese logic look at what they have done all because some people most likely took a bribe to allow the building/s to be constructed and now have a full blown disaster... would you buy a unit/s from this builder?

they have found out(the hard way) an awful lot of contractors skimped or totally ignored the steel reinforcing in bridges and buildings in china. it was just a corrupt rort to make more money, steel is expensive, and you need a lot of it.
i just hope they have put steel in the right places in the three gorges dam.
we may find out if theres a good earthquake close to the site.
that building looks like it failed due to liquifaction(the lack of good foundations allowing it to topple when the earthquake accured).

its not just the foundations that will be missing appropriate steel in buildings etc.

 

[Agentm]

Re: Are all business cows in China are holy?

they have found out(the hard way) an awful lot of contractors skimped or totally ignored the steel reinforcing in bridges and buildings in china. it was just a corrupt rort to make more money, steel is expensive, and you need a lot of it.
i just hope they have put steel in the right places in the three gorges dam.
we may find out if theres a good earthquake close to the site.
that building looks like it failed due to liquifaction(the lack of good foundations allowing it to topple when the earthquake accured).

its not just the foundations that will be missing appropriate steel in buildings etc.

* FEBRUARY 6, 2009, 9:13 P.M. ET

Scientists Link China's Dam to Earthquake, Renewing Debate

By GAUTAM NAIK and SHAI OSTER

Scientists in China and the U.S. have published new reports examining the possibility that a giant dam may have helped to trigger last May's massive earthquake in China's Sichuan province, renewing controversy over the devastation and other dam-building projects across China's earthquake-prone western regions.

Evidence remains unclear on what effect the added pressure of water collected behind one dam would have on an earthquake of that size. The Zipingpu Dam is 5.5 kilometers away from the epicenter of the Sichuan quake, a 7.9 magnitude temblor. It killed about 80,000 people.

The dam was built 500 meters from the earthquake's fault line. A research paper by a group of Chinese scientists concluded that the weight of collected water clearly affected seismic activity. "It is worthwhile to further study if the effect played a role" in triggering the quake, according to an abstract of the paper published in the December issue of the Chinese journal Geology and Seismology.

Separately, Christian Klose, a researcher at Columbia University, put the extra weight of water in the area at about 320 million tons, without mentioning the dam by name. He said it "amplified the strain on the earth's crust" in a way that would alter the stresses below.

In China, debate could have an impact on plans to build even more dams. A group of 62 Chinese environmentalists and scientists has already appealed for a moratorium on dam construction in the region pending further study of the risks. The government -- and some Chinese scientists -- has said there is no connection between the dam and the quake.

Scientists discovered 10 years after the Hoover Dam was built in 1935 that its reservoir was increasing seismic activity. Since then, it has been well established that other human endeavors can set off powerful tremors beneath the earth's surface. These include coal mining, quarrying, oil drilling, and the injection of wastewater into the ground. Along China's Three Gorges Dam, officials acknowledge that seismic activity has increased slightly since the 400-mile reservoir began filling eight years ago.

Proving that such projects cause large earthquakes is another matter. "What was the rate of seismic activity in the area before the dam was built, and did that rate increase after the dam began to fill with water?" says Ross Stein, a geophysicist at the United States Geological Survey and member of a team that published a "stress analysis" of the Sichuan quake. "In the absence of that," he adds, "it's a very hard case to make."

When a dam is built, the accumulating water presses down upon the rock below. The pressure can cause a slippage in a pre-existing fault line, aggravating the situation that can lead to an earthquake. Water also can infiltrate the rock and significantly increase the rock's "pore pressure," which also can set off or hasten the arrival of a temblor.

In the U.S., government engineers often try to calculate such risks before building a dam, to estimate the likelihood of triggering a small earthquake. "But it's not always done elsewhere," says Ivan Wong, of URS Corp. of San Francisco, a seismologist who evaluates seismological hazards for the federal government and private firms. He didn't know whether it was done for the Zipingpu Dam.

Scientists say that the Zipingpu reservoir started filling in 2004 and had major fluctuations in the water level between 2007 and 2008. Still, the exact mechanics of what happened underground in Sichuan aren't clear.

The earthquake started some eight to 10 miles beneath the earth's surface, and the pressure from even such a large quantity of water significantly declines the deeper you go.

To establish the effect of pore pressure, scientists would need detailed statistics about it from before the earthquake. It isn't known whether such readings were ever taken.

"Nobody is claiming that there is direct proof that Zipingpu triggered the earthquake," said Peter Bosshard, policy director of environmental advocacy group International Rivers, which is a critic of many dam projects. "But there is disturbing scientific evidence based on the limited evidence available."

India is one of the few developing countries where seismic effects are taken into account for certain large-scale projects, including dams. Leonardo Seeber, a seismologist at the Lamong-Doherty Earth Observatory at Columbia University, says a number of the damaging earthquakes that hit the country in the 1980s are seen as being triggered by artificial reservoirs.

In the 1970s, California's Oroville Dam may have contributed to an earthquake of magnitude of 5.7 on the Richter scale. A quarrying operation in Reading, Pa., is believed by some seismologists to have set off a series of smaller quakes in that region.

 

[Calliope]

Re: Are all business cows in China are holy?

Rudd's a smart guy, don't underestimate him. He knows how to play the political game. He definitely knows China that's for sure.

Rudd is the expert on China. He knows the importance of saving face.

So why on earth at the end of one of his overseas conferences ( I forget which) , and they were posing for the photo shoot, did he so deliberately snub the Chinese delegate, so that he could pose next to a mate.

The Chinese would have noted this and they forget nothing.

 

[shag]

Re: Are all business cows in China are holy?

thanks agentm. at the southern lakes in NZ they were building the clyde dam when they found it had a fault line running right thru it. it was a bit late to scrap the dam, so came up with the idea of putting a wedge in the middle of it. thus if/when a decent EQ arrives, hopefully it will fill the gap.
if you are not downstream of it, it will be interesting to see if it works.

you do wonder if the three gorges dam is really worth the risk to the chinese population and infastructure downstream and around.

 

[matty2.0]

Re: Are all business cows in China are holy?

Rudd is the expert on China. He knows the importance of saving face.

So why on earth at the end of one of his overseas conferences ( I forget which) , and they were posing for the photo shoot, did he so deliberately snub the Chinese delegate, so that he could pose next to a mate.

The Chinese would have noted this and they forget nothing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-uVVUPzms94

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcowAI9lk20


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t513bSx8F5U

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWne85Bd3Oc

 

[Largesse]

Re: Are all business cows in China are holy?

Hey Matty2.0.

What are you an analyst of? Clearly not options.

You never replied over in the credit spread thread...

 

[matty2.0]

Re: Are all business cows in China are holy?

Hey Matty2.0.

What are you an analyst of? Clearly not options.

You never replied over in the credit spread thread...

Oh ... I didn't know what you were talking about in the other thread. lol ...

Why are you so persistent? :shake:

 

[cutz]

Re: Are all business cows in China are holy?

Come on matty, i'm also curious on what you analyze, you have strong views on property, is that your field ?

 

[Joe Blow]

Re: Are all business cows in China are holy?

Miner,

Can you please tell me exactly how the thread title is supposed to read so I can edit it?

At the moment it doesn't seem to make any sense.

 

[Calliope]

Re: Are all business cows in China are holy?

Miner,

Can you please tell me exactly how the thread title is supposed to read so I can edit it?

At the moment it doesn't seem to make any sense.

It is one of those beautiful titles that you can interpret as anything you like. Most of us latched on to the word China, while ignoring "holy business cows"

 

[Timmy]

Re: Are all business cows in China are holy?

"Holy business cows, Batman!" ???

 

[shag]

Re: Are all business cows in China are holy?

i wonder what is going to happen to all the resources pricing, iron ore especially. theres no formal agreement yet, a differencial of between 33 to 40pc between the old contract price and the probable new chinese price.
do they sell it all on the spot market?
hard to negotiate a new price with your negotiators in the slammer and soverign risk to anyone else caring to tempt fate, especially from BHP and RIO.

i bet the phone lines are running hot somewhere between the mills, to the government, to the suppliers.

china may have a large stockpiles, but its better to keep it, than run them down.

maybe i've missed it somewhere in the media.

 

[Aussiejeff]

Re: Are all business cows in China are holy?

i wonder what is going to happen to all the resources pricing, iron ore especially. theres no formal agreement yet, a differencial of between 33 to 40pc between the old contract price and the probable new chinese price.
do they sell it all on the spot market?
hard to negotiate a new price with your negotiators in the slammer and soverign risk to anyone else caring to tempt fate, especially from BHP and RIO.

i bet the phone lines are running hot somewhere between the mills, to the government, to the suppliers.

china may have a large stockpiles, but its better to keep it, than run them down.

maybe i've missed it somewhere in the media.

Then again, maybe the cunning Chinese have a plan to run their stockpiles down as needed in the short-medium term, rather than buy big contracts from Oz until Rio et all are forced to their knees through diminishing export returns from China and agree to sell at a lower contract price? Otherwise, I don't see what they would gain either.

Didn't China recently discover a big local iron ore resource with approx. 50%+ of their previous local reserves?

Wonder what they have discovered in Africa?

Time will tell, as usual.

 

[Buckeroo]

Re: Are all business cows in China are holy?

not too fussed otherwise about what China's doing. we're not going to go to war with them. The US might, I'll move to middle earth if we do.

So you would rather battle the Orc's!

We'll, even though I can't stand Rudd & his harem of union prostitutes, I'm of an opinion that the lame Management from Rio have practically no finesse & couldn't manage a dog with fleas.

In Asian culture generally, loosing face is one of the worst things that can happen. This whole saga with Rio, literally shafted the Chinese and yes, I know, in our world its seen more as business cut & thrust.

But I can't help thinking, this is not going to end well for Australia. Economically this country is God or will be in the future - getting on the wrong side made not bode well.

One way out would be to sack the Rio board & management teams - be not great loss I'm sure.

Cheers

 

[gray.nomad]

Re: Are all business cows in China are holy?

It's great to see so many "Experts" on China and it's Laws and trading customs.
Maybe, just maybe, there was bribary involved.
I don't know and anyone else here does not know either.

In any case, China has probably it's nose out of joint (or egg on face) due to Rio's underhand deal with BHPB and maybe China wants to let others know that it will not be stuffed around.

I cannot really see why the Government (Rudd) should get involved in any other way than at a diplomatic level and maybe tighten up trading laws between the countries. I'd really hate to see (Turn)bull lose in a China shop.
My 2 cents worth.

 

[Calliope]

Re: Are all business cows in China are holy?

gray.nomad. I think we are pretty sure there was no "bribary" involved.