Religious leader condemns RAPE
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like the boy scout helps the nun across the road .. "why thank you lill boy 
"
that's ok lady - any friend of zorros is a friend of mine.
"it is a test of a good religion whether you can joke about it" - gk chesterton (gotta feeling he wasn't a moslem) but who nose, I might be wrong.
I guess the joke about "the two peanuts going for a walk in the park - and one was a salted" - wouldn't be kosker, - sexual assault is no joke - but saying that showing some skin (any skin?) gives a man freedom to exercise some totally untamed animal appetite - is a sad indictment on the moral foundations of those that proclaim it imho.
"that's ok lady - any friend of zorros is a friend of mine.
"it is a test of a good religion whether you can joke about it" - gk chesterton (gotta feeling he wasn't a moslem)
but who nose, I might be wrong.I guess the joke about "the two peanuts going for a walk in the park - and one was a salted" - wouldn't be kosker, - sexual assault is no joke - but saying that showing some skin (any skin?) gives a man freedom to exercise some totally untamed animal appetite - is a sad indictment on the moral foundations of those that proclaim it imho.
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Bobby said:
Hi Bobby,
We sit down & laugh when we see how many people are scared of what we know to be the very little minority extremists.
But we blame the govt mainly for funding these guys & NOT monitoring thier activities, we see total jobless & boofheads getting a lot of funding under what they call a local religeous group in which they most likely to have a dozen of people as member including their families & obviously the more of them exist the more reliegeous tutors or what they name as leaders would come around & any guy that could grow a beard comes to be a leader without anyone knowing exactly where they came from
Now, we, moderate muslims, don't have any voice whatsoever to whom these guys hire or fire, they have their own funding from the govt & they don't ask anyone for votes when they get someone to be their public speaker.
All what we could do & I'm sure we will do, is use the democratic system we're in to vote those we believe will carry our values which mostly were labour members in the past, we....moderate muslims, are with all meaning the highest majority of muslims around the world, all those that bomb embassies & fly into twin towers are terrorists & they don't carry anything that we could relate to by any meaning.
the idea is, other than voting for who we think is moderate & can consider our little requirements in freedom sometimes, there is not much we can do.
I refuse to divide myself from normal day-to-day people by taging myself as muslim. if you think there's something we should do.....then all of us should do, the danger is againist all of us not only non muslims.
We work from 9 to 5 like anyone & reliegon for us is again a way to communicate with god & those funny guys who used to go around & ask people if they're muslim or Australian first....
...... which one would you like me to mention first....my nationality or my reliegon.......no comparison whatsoever between one's nationality & belonging to his/her land with their religon that they use to communicate with God.Only those that try to insert the feel in communities that Islam is againist western countries or Australia.....this is a myth...whether you believe it or not a big majority of muslims in this country may die 1 day protecting Australia if they have to, same like many christians & Jews & other religions.
cheers,
Please ease up with your empty posts.2020hindsight said:like the boy scout helps the nun across the road .. "why thank you lill boy
that's ok lady - any friend of zorros is a friend of mine.
"it is a test of a good religion whether you can joke about it" - gk chesterton (gotta feeling he wasn't a moslem)
I guess the joke about "the two peanuts going for a walk in the park - and one was a salted" - wouldn't be kosker, - sexual assault is no joke - but saying that showing some skin (any skin?) gives a man freedom to exercise some totally untamed animal appetite - is a sad indictment on the moral foundations of those that proclaim it imho.
I'm not the only one, sick of your Rhetoric.
Regards Bob.
Here are the facts that I believe induce rape...
Women have the Sexual power (This should be socially accepted by now). They have more power of choice than men because say 40,000 years ago there was no welfare system that can take care of them, and as a result of having a child without a father would usually result in death. Some men don't know how to relate and communicate with women so they end up frustrated and lonely. This frustration bottles up and the prehistoric urge to reproduce eventually gets the better of them and then they commit the crime of rape. 40,000 years ago if a tribesman tried to get with a girl taken by someone else then the result would be a violent caveman clubbing where one would end up dead. This is why men find it hard to approach women... All these caveman urges are hard wired in us all and exist!!!
In the year 1750 there were only 170,000,000 human beings on earth now there is 6,500,000,000. What i'm trying to say is humans are really out of date machines in a world that grows too fast for us to keep up with...
That is why rape is condemned by law... And gentlemen, a girl is never a b*#@% because she rejected you. She rejected you because you didn't have a good enough personality and demonstrated enough value to her. So men improve yourselves, don't hit on girls until you befriend her friends first and don't buy them drinks please, they don't like it and most will take advantage of it... I would if were a girl... lol
Women have the Sexual power (This should be socially accepted by now). They have more power of choice than men because say 40,000 years ago there was no welfare system that can take care of them, and as a result of having a child without a father would usually result in death. Some men don't know how to relate and communicate with women so they end up frustrated and lonely. This frustration bottles up and the prehistoric urge to reproduce eventually gets the better of them and then they commit the crime of rape. 40,000 years ago if a tribesman tried to get with a girl taken by someone else then the result would be a violent caveman clubbing where one would end up dead. This is why men find it hard to approach women... All these caveman urges are hard wired in us all and exist!!!
In the year 1750 there were only 170,000,000 human beings on earth now there is 6,500,000,000. What i'm trying to say is humans are really out of date machines in a world that grows too fast for us to keep up with...
That is why rape is condemned by law... And gentlemen, a girl is never a b*#@% because she rejected you. She rejected you because you didn't have a good enough personality and demonstrated enough value to her. So men improve yourselves, don't hit on girls until you befriend her friends first and don't buy them drinks please, they don't like it and most will take advantage of it... I would if were a girl... lol
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ok, I'll do what you do, bob, and ask a question - (mind you, brilliant reply from igo)Bobby said:
Is my last sentence rhetoric?
you havent been following, have you bob
there was an exchange of posts between kauri and myself.
but I'll try to remember not to joke when I know you might read them - nor to quote chesterton on the principle of strength being whether or not you can laugh at yourself
ps do you usually insult someone , then add "regards" ?- nice one
can I guess you don't agree with one of my posts, but prefer a vague attack instead.
.
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bob, forgot to mention..
I was reminded of that peanut joke by julia and taurisk arguing about whether women could rape/sexually assault men. (maybe I should have said so when i posted it) - but i wont go there, obviously rhetoric. (and water under the bridge as far as im concerned)
I was reminded of that peanut joke by julia and taurisk arguing about whether women could rape/sexually assault men. (maybe I should have said so when i posted it) - but i wont go there, obviously rhetoric. (and water under the bridge as far as im concerned)
Sheezz, its not about attacking you ? your a bore' thats you , Huge number of silly posts .2020hindsight said:ok, I'll do what you do, bob, and ask a question - (mind you, brilliant reply from igo)
Is my last sentence rhetoric?
you havent been following, have you bob
there was an exchange of posts between kauri and myself.
but I'll try to remember not to joke when I know you might read them - nor to quote chesterton on the principle of strength being whether or not you can laugh at yourself
ps do you usually insult someone , then add "regards" ?- nice one
can I guess you don't agree with one of my posts, but prefer a vague attack instead.
.
Now you take care .
Bob.
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ahh well, some of us have to be bores - to make up for those who are life of the party i guessBobby said:
IGO4IT said:Hi Bobby,
We sit down & laugh when we see how many people are scared of what we know to be the very little minority extremists.
But we blame the govt mainly for funding these guys & NOT monitoring thier activities, we see total jobless & boofheads getting a lot of funding under what they call a local religeous group in which they most likely to have a dozen of people as member including their families & obviously the more of them exist the more reliegeous tutors or what they name as leaders would come around & any guy that could grow a beard comes to be a leader without anyone knowing exactly where they came from
Now, we, moderate muslims, don't have any voice whatsoever to whom these guys hire or fire, they have their own funding from the govt & they don't ask anyone for votes when they get someone to be their public speaker.
All what we could do & I'm sure we will do, is use the democratic system we're in to vote those we believe will carry our values which mostly were labour members in the past, we....moderate muslims, are with all meaning the highest majority of muslims around the world, all those that bomb embassies & fly into twin towers are terrorists & they don't carry anything that we could relate to by any meaning.
the idea is, other than voting for who we think is moderate & can consider our little requirements in freedom sometimes, there is not much we can do.
I refuse to divide myself from normal day-to-day people by taging myself as muslim. if you think there's something we should do.....then all of us should do, the danger is againist all of us not only non muslims.
We work from 9 to 5 like anyone & reliegon for us is again a way to communicate with god & those funny guys who used to go around & ask people if they're muslim or Australian first....
Only those that try to insert the feel in communities that Islam is againist western countries or Australia.....this is a myth...whether you believe it or not a big majority of muslims in this country may die 1 day protecting Australia if they have to, same like many christians & Jews & other religions.
cheers,
It is delicate issue, and any person from outside of any group, first of all is seen as an enemy.
People, who are from the same group, don’t have easier task either as they are seen as traitors.
Democracy is fertile ground for vocal minorities and this is the greatest thereat.
One almost philosophical comment is fairly accurate –
Democracy is all the bad things, until you consider the alternatives.
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Happy said:
Democracy in actual stripped fact, a ground in which all ideas (before making any judgement on any of them) could grow & to be promoted, practically its the white board for all sad minds & also genious thinkings.
Within a democratic ground, there is the govt, opposition & a third power that is very vital......its the media....this is the way we get to know about all the different ideas & then make up our minds.
Since media is not 100% objective in some sense, putting away any hidden agenda's or any consipiracy theories that many talk about in terms of owners of media outlets, we can simply say that media is not just reporting facts as it used to be around 30-40 years ago. Media now plays a major role in diverting crowds attention to many directions that could influence their decision of what's an appropriate idea & what's not.
In some sense, it defeats the purpose of having a free objective atmosphere if the 3rd force in a democracy is biased or not willing to give free opportunity to each speaker regardless of what they say.
so if we keep hearing what we like to hear only & blow away anyone with a crazy idea, then we go back to the dark ages of communism or Monarchy. We have to realise that a discussion must have more than 1 person speaking & the more contributions we get & the more speakers, the better the discussion & the richer the outcome of it.
I agree that the core of the democratic process lies within the freedom of the individual to express his/her opinions in an egalitarian environment - however if these comments are mysogynistic, defamatory or marginalising to other members of the community then I believe they should be held accountable - the easiest way to reduce the perceived power of these so-called leaders - is to completely ignore what they say - to discuss these people's ideas in forums or to represent them in the media only elevates them to celebrity status and gives them far more credence than they deserve
Julia said:
You make me laugh, Julia!
I have thought that I had little prejudice but when it comes to the way women are regarded in the Muslim world I get physically uncomfortable; I don't want those attitudes imported into our lovely country. This religion is anti-feminist, medieval, and unsuitable to a modern democracy, because it does not understand the basics of what human brother- and sisterhood means. It makes me sad that we are having those sorts of discussions in the early 21st century.
Taurisk
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Taurisk said:
A little clarification Taurisk, what's currently implemented in the Arab world in NOT derived by muslim laws.
Arab world holds a lot of baggage of thousands of years of traditions & uneducation & they have nothing to do with Muslim rules. The level of corruption & anti-social values they hold has nothing to do with the reliegon that promotes peace & equality & freedom of speech.
Physically, there's no such a thing as "Muslim world" or even "Muslim countries", as there no such a country on our planet that is implementing the muslim ruling 100% so far......if you find such a country then pls let me know, because there isn't any!
Islam, the reliegon, is simply a reliegon that you (as a person) may like to follow or not follow. Govts on the other hand, may choose to follow (SOME) of its ruling to make it a general law but no existing govt could implement that whole system as reliegon doesn't have a govt system, a reliegon is only a way an INDIVIDUAL is to communicate with his/her God.
If you're scared that muslims will take over our nice world then don't worry, those in power everywhere in the world are not interested in your country & their reliegon doesn't tell them to go & attack others. If you're scared of few dozens or even thousands that may terrorise you & other muslims as well, then you have the right to be scared. Use your civilised brain in identify them, ask the question why they hate us, fix the problem & you're done!
By the way, another myth I have to mention that those terrorists hate other religons just for the sake of it
, No ..... these guys look around & they lose cousins, brothers, sisters & parents by Western bombing in Palastine, Bosnia, Iraq & guess what.......you'll probably feel the same way if you lost any member of your family by any force of the world!, as for those that claim that they hate your lovely civilised world, this is just an excuse because if you stop bombing their houses & killing them......they may start to like you Once again, a woman is respected & treated preciously in Islam (the reliegon) a lot more than what current human rights or women rights give to women or individuals. You just need to research before making an opinion & I repeat, no current govt had succeeded in establishing a full islamic state with full islamic laws, that's why we can't use any example of how women are treated in other countries.
You watch too much TV with no actual research & I guess that it proves my point that media is interested in showing only 1 side of the story to the western world.
IGO4IT said:
Hi GO4IT
Sorry, I cut your quotes down for convenience' sake.
I assume you live here as well? and take part in the democratic process etc.?
I don't agree with our government supporting the present regime in the U.S. -but I have the ballot box to put that right. Yes, I do watch TV, but I also read books, have friends from all over the world (only one North African muslim over in England, who is lovely and modern).
I do agree there are very real grievances with the way power politics is being played out in the Middle East, by mostly the U.S. and its allies, but the Saudis were quite happy to encourage them for decades - and still do. It upsets me that it all happens in the name of 'democracy' - it is very wrong. But we all know it is really all about oil, don't we?
At the same time I also take note of a legal system that will accuse a woman of fornication, when she has been raped, requiring her to have 4 male witnesses, only to be condemned by the court anyway. You call that honouring your womenfolk? I have also seen little Arab boys on airoplanes being totally disrespectful with their mothers - the stewards had to call them to order.
As to clothes:
When I came to Australia, I only wore my national outfit (dirndl) and my husband wore his lederhosen in a social club from our own ethnic background, never out in the street. We wore the clothes everybody else was wearing, because we wished to fit in. It's simply ignorant not to do as the locals do.
I won't even go into Muhammed's life story, because he did live a long time ago and people did behave differently, and I feel he is being vilified on the net quite a bit. The true facts of his life will never be verified, yet we do know that he allowed himself certain sexual freedoms that he would not allow his fellows, and always found a nice sura or revelation to justify it. He was also a great leader and probably very necessary at that particular time of Arab history. He was the one that wrote the sura about a paradise for men were there were numerous beautiful women awaiting them, captive inside little palaces, inside a perl etc.. No mention what rewards await women.
If you don't like the Western world or way, please book your paid tickets to a part of the world that's more amenable to yours. If you live here, you have to take the modern (Western) world as it is with all its faults, its unlimited personal freedoms (you don't have to accept them for yourself) its motor cars, its political struggles for dominance over that precious substance that runs the motor cars and industry which gives us and you a great living standard. There is also the possibility that you might want to work towards a better version of democracy here, by voting; there is also the possibility that you engage yourself in a meaningful way for an alternative lifestyle that is ecologically less damaging. For example: do you drive a petrol-driven motor car, or have you looked at alternatives?
Of course, I also have a Darwinian outlook. Nature abhors a vacuum and nature always has alternative pathways and byways. Our way has become too invasive, too greedy of resources, too aggressive, so: those 'Allah' shouting masked maniacs are probably the alternative we all stare in the face each night when we watch the news, and we feel uneasy and cannot really love what we see.
I am, however, an optimist and I hope that not the extremists but the ordinary people of the world will prevail, and that we will solve all our more urgent problems as well.
Take care
Taurisk
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Taurisk said:
I'm positive you're confused between a woman who tries to prove that it was raped & someone who tries to prove adultry.
A woman DOESN'T need witnesses to show that she was raped anywhere in the world. she need medical checks & a DNA test
. Not sure where you got your info from. This is totally incorrect.Taurisk said:
You had the freedom to wear what you wanted to wear even if it was your normal clothes or others in your own preferred time. why do you deny others the freedom to wear what they like? isn't this the FREE WORLD!
Taurisk said:
Amazing info, Muhammed lived 1400 years ago, ONLY 600 after Jesus. Not much difference in time & or even geographical location.
the true facts of his life is verfied & in more details thru many of his followers (same as Jesus students) & their writings of his teaching & different occasions. Muslims call that Ahadeeth, its more or less the equivalent the gospels, except that those stories mentioned by Muhammed's students were seperated from the holy book (Quran), which Muslims believe it was clear msg from God & no one helped in phrasing or inventing its words.
Muhammed did tell his followers, 1400yo, who were getting killed by non-believers, that if they were killed for the reason for thier faith, which was happening, that they'll get to heaven with all its girls & guys & the whole lot
, or if they get killed, defending their land or family, then they get to the same end. Pls remember, they ran away from their home land because non-believers at the time destroyed their houses & took thier wives & kids as slaves! This is nothing that could upset anyone.Taurisk said:
I do like your way of life & I live here in Australia, its you that don't want me here because of my clothing
do you call that civilisation.The only difference between you & me is that I like your freedom & I don't think you have clear understanding to what freedom is all about. You think because I don't wear same clothes as you then I should go & find somewhere else to live??????? is that your defenition of freedom & democracy????? I'm amazed to you're even a member in a stock forum
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Taurisk said:
Did you read any of my other posts at all?
I know more about democracy possibly more than you, I (as a person) most likely pay more taxes than your whole street
, I'm not proud of it though.& finally, I don't go & tell people to go & find other countries to suit them when they disagree with me
cheers & read previous posts if you care to learn more.
IGO4IT said:I'm positive you're confused between a woman who tries to prove that it was raped & someone who tries to prove adultry.
A woman DOESN'T need witnesses to show that she was raped anywhere in the world. she need medical checks & a DNA test
Muhammed did tell his followers, 1400yo, who were getting killed by non-believers, that if they were killed for the reason for thier faith, which was happening, that they'll get to heaven with all its girls & guys & the whole lot
I do like your way of life & I live here in Australia, its you that don't want me here because of my clothing
The only difference between you & me is that I like your freedom & I don't think you have clear understanding to what freedom is all about. You think because I don't wear same clothes as you then I should go & find somewhere else to live??????? is that your defenition of freedom & democracy????? I'm amazed to you're even a member in a stock forum
Hi GO4IT
Weeelllll, all that huffing and puffing ...
You are a bit of a choleric, aren't you?
I actually thought we were talking in a general way, and the problems of integration into Australian society of certain groups of migrants with errant and tactless leaders.
The rape story was a recent court case in Pakistan, for all to see, on the news, and every so often the story of dishonoured brothers, fathers or husbands pop up who have killed a close female relative for their honour's sake - nice, eh?
I do not believe that God is so interested in our fates that he goes and tells us down to the last detail what to do. All our holy books, whether it's the Bible or the Koran, are either historical records and are written down by people, poets and wonderful writers one and all, who claim they've had revelations, funnily enough they were mostly men, who seem to have a vast need to be important.
You pay more tax than my whole street???? You must be important!! I shall prostrate myself!
BTW I also still pay a fair amount of tax, and have all my life! and
I hope your head dress - against the wearing of which in public I have absolutely no objection to - is as becoming as your icon,
it's the face I'm not sure about, hmmmm - too much aggression.
T.
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should the title read religous zealots condemn eachother?
should we not respect ones right to believe whatever one chooses? so much talk about freedom, rights and religion and not a single sign of it, only intollerance.
apathy is an ugly trait. ignorance is also....
what chance does the subject of this thread have with all this happening in a forum?
should we not respect ones right to believe whatever one chooses? so much talk about freedom, rights and religion and not a single sign of it, only intollerance.
apathy is an ugly trait. ignorance is also....
what chance does the subject of this thread have with all this happening in a forum?
