Religious leader condemns RAPE

new girl · 27 October 2006

Rafa said:
Wow... Been in Japan last month on a holiday and come back to see not much has changed... more crazy clerics talking out of their backsides! I wonder if there are muslims in Japan, cause those Japanese girls wear the shortest shorts imaginable!

I really think its up to Muslim women to sort this out. I am sure we will be there giving them all the support they need, but it is them that need to get the ball rolling.

Reading the comments, I was pleasantly surprised to see that a muslim woman came out to speak, and she put her views forward in a forthright and succinct manner.

I hope this issue doesn't just flitter away like some of the others controversys, but rather forms the start of a proper campaign to break the fundamentalist establishment. Christianity had to go thru this process a while back... but like all good revolutions, it needs to be driven from the grassroots.

Hi Rafa,

Not sure if you're referring to my post, I am not Muslim. I have to disagree with you though, this is not a struggle for Muslim women only. A few comments:

1. Al Hilali wasn’t talking about Muslim women only, he kindly included all of us.

2. Al Hilali, the men that were listening to his speech and the women he was referring to are all Australian citizens (including the cats eating the meat).

3. The mosque is built on Australian soil.

4. A lot of these Muslim women are made to believe that they are being respected if they cover up and protected from the evil infidels, the ones that don't buy it know that their life is at stake if they show any resistance.

5. I am interested to hear from you and the other guys how they would feel if someone implied that somehow wearing a singlet in summer could get you raped?

Why does the PM think this an issue for the Muslim community to deal with? This is an attack on half the population of Australia.

Rafa · 27 October 2006

Interesting aritcle...

And if you want public confirmation of what we thought were the worst public examples of the shocking disrespect of women, we had the sad case of Brisbane mother Dianne Brimble being sexually abused and left for dead by grown men.

The latest example of the Melbourne DVD where a group of young boys gang up to sexually abuse an intellectually impaired girl, and the discussion surrounding it, is an abomination, and the worst type of degradation one could imagine, not only done in the context of a group but recorded and doing the rounds of Melbourne high schools.

Whenever I see a veiled muslim girl, i immediately feel sorry for her, imagining the opression she is going thru.

At the same time, when i look at young 'western' girls, i see the very same oppression, in their skimpy clothing and their need to make themselves more attractive to males... as they try and conform to the images they see on TV and in the magazines on what is 'sexy'.

This was even more noticable in Japan, where almost all Japanese girls (under 30) dressed up in lolita fashion, short shorts, knee high socks, high heels, etc... spending bucketloads of cash on hairstyles, make up, luis vitton handbags, etc. Sexy it certainly was, but I did feel sorry for the whole lot of them, trying to make an impression with their bodies, in a city of millions!

I wonder who is worse off.

That is why the Shiek deserves even more punishment that he is currently recieving... He should be hung, drawn and quartered cause he is legitimising 'rape' and the traditional attitues of men (both muslim and I am sorry to say, western/japanese men as well).

Happy · 27 October 2006

Rafa said:
Interesting aritcle...

I wonder who is worse off.

Not the cash registers of fashion outlets.

I think, girls don't do it solely to present their body better, they do it for themselves, to feel great.

Partially due to atavistic urge to attract opposite sex, but to be liked and to be desired and to be able to choose partner and definitely not to be raped.

You could compare it to garment presented on shelf for purchase not for stealing.

new girl · 27 October 2006

Happy said:
Not the cash registers of fashion outlets.

I think, girls don't do it solely to present their body better, they do it for themselves, to feel great.

Partially due to atavistic urge to attract opposite sex, but to be liked and to be desired and to be able to choose partner and definitely not to be raped.

You could compare it to garment presented on shelf for purchase not for stealing.

Couldn't have said it better!!

Happy · 27 October 2006

From ABC, Friday, October 27, 2006. 3:00pm (AEST)

Sheikh refuses to resign

A senior Muslim cleric who is under fire for comments he made about women has again indicated he will not step down.
During a sermon in Sydney last month, Sheikh Taj el-Din Al Hilaly likened scantily dressed women to uncovered meat and blamed them for inciting sexual attacks.
He attended the midday prayer service at Lakemba Mosque today, and spoke very briefly in Arabic about the controversy.
Sheikh Hilaly will not give sermons for the next two to three months after deciding to take a break.
The Lebanese Muslim Association says the Sheikh has apologised unreservedly for the comments, and maintains they have been taken out of context.
Sheikh Hilaly was flanked by dozens of supporters when leaving the mosque.
When asked whether he would resign he replied, "after they clean the world from the White House first".
Sheikh Hilaly's comments about women have attracted the attention of the international media, including the BBC in the United Kingdom and CNN in the United States.

Festival plans

Meanwhile, the Queensland Government says the controversial cleric should not visit the state.
Sheikh Hilaly has been invited to attend the Eid Festival in Brisbane next week.
But his comments comparing women to meat have sparked calls for his invitation to be withdrawn.
The festival organisers will meet on the weekend to consider the issue.
Queensland Multicultural Minister Lindy Nelson-Carr says she is strongly urging them to revoke the invitation.
"I'd be very surprised if he came," she said.
"This is not the view ... that is held by everyday Australian Muslims and the kinds of comments that he's made are so unwarranted and of course what it does is incite division between Australians."
Queensland Liberal leader Bruce Flegg agrees with the Government's position.
"I think [the festival organisers] should consider withdrawing his invitation," he said.
"Clearly he is not a voice of moderation and tolerance."

Comments common

The Brisbane organisers of tonight's Reclaim the Night march - a campaign to make the streets safe for women and children - say Sheikh Hilaly's comments are quite commonly held in the community.
Reclaim the Night Collective spokeswoman Desi Achilleos says we live in a culture that too often blames women for inciting sexual violence.
"I do think it's fairly pervasive, given the fact that so many women are continuing to be raped," she said.
"But I do think it supports a myth that only certain types of women get raped or the women provoke rape, when in actual fact it's children, it's grandmothers, it's women of all sorts of different cultures."

In other developments:

The Prime Minister has warned there could be long-term problems for the Muslim community in Australia over controversial comments a Sheikh made about women during a sermon in Sydney last month.

The president of the Islamic Council of Queensland says comments about women by one of the nation's most senior Muslim clerics are indefensible and the Sheikh's invitation to a Brisbane festival should be revoked.

Even if he doesn’t resign, I think at least note will be taken and preaching will be more in line with Australian standards or should I say dreaded and ridiculed word –values-.

Rafa · 27 October 2006

Happy said:
Not the cash registers of fashion outlets.

I think, girls don't do it solely to present their body better, they do it for themselves, to feel great.

Partially due to atavistic urge to attract opposite sex, but to be liked and to be desired and to be able to choose partner and definitely not to be raped.

You could compare it to garment presented on shelf for purchase not for stealing.

Yup, spot on.

I think people attitudes need to change big time.....
Some decent sentences and public floggings for rapists would be a good start! Not to mention a public flogging for the Sheik!

Out Too Soon · 27 October 2006

Good point Rafa western girls r under a lot of pressure to be attrctive, still they don't really have to.
Al Hilaly is a bloody nuisance all the same, I like to tell ppl about how I use to live in a muslim village in sth Thailand & how wonderful the ppl there were, The women didn't wear any head covering either (Krabi area, not Haddyai). I've heard plenty of blokes say things similar to Hilaly some of the worst were quotes from Aussie judges until recently.
Speaking as a typical aussie bloke tho, I'd prefer as a civilized animal to be tempted by skimpy dresses & control my urges rather than have the fairer sex cover up. It's not a muslim thing, it's an Arab problem from centuries of women being treated deplorably.
Don't be too shy to smile & say hello to your neighbourhood muslims, they need to be reassured at the moment, the more diverse our society, the more interesting. The ppl responsible for putting Hilaly in his position tho' should wake up to themselves, we're all Aussies & we all want to enjoy life together.

2020hindsight · 27 October 2006

There's such a groundswell where I live, that my cat and the neighbours cat have been out at the side fence discussing what can be done about this bloke. For starters, they are making a stand, and are refusing to eat meat ! - so now Im having to get this bludy vegetarian catfood, - AND its gotta be given to them hidden in a pillow slip.

Secondly, everyone doing laps up at the swimming pool in their Speedo's seems be swimming much faster than normal - seems they are scared of the person following them catching up with them and having their evil way with them.

Thirdly the council workers are refusing to be seen wearing their tradional blue singlets, hairy chests, and various cleavage cracks (hairy of otherwise). - and they are insisting that if they wear shorts and as a result are raped by some passing lady whilst on duty , then they are entitled to the rest of the day off. !

O boy - will the world ever be the same

Rafa · 27 October 2006

Out Too Soon said:
Speaking as a typical aussie bloke tho, I'd prefer as a civilized animal to be tempted by skimpy dresses & control my urges rather than have the fairer sex cover up.

hehe, couldn't agree more

Sean K · 27 October 2006

I fear that we are at the beginings of a long term situation in Australia where there is a stand off between Muslims, and the rest. They are going to paint themselves into a corner and cause long term conflict in our society. The golden age of a peaceful Australia is over.

(not counting destroying the Aboriginals)

Rafa · 27 October 2006

Thats rather defeatest Kennas...

Are you underestimating the religion of the 21st century... Capitalism, that is sweeping all before it?

2020hindsight · 27 October 2006

Out Too Soon said:
1.The women didn't wear any head covering either (Krabi area, not Haddyai).
2. ...some of the worst were quotes from Aussie judges until recently.
3. ... I'd prefer as a civilized animal to be tempted by skimpy dresses & control my urges rather than have the fairer sex cover up.
4. ...from centuries of women being treated deplorably.
5. .. say hello to your neighbourhood muslims...
6. The ppl responsible for putting Hilaly in his position tho' should wake up to themselves, we're all Aussies & we all want to enjoy life together.

OTS Top post man !!
1. women in PNG dont cover breasts, but funnily enough shouldn't show their thighs! I wonder what happens when they are only partly convinced they should convert to muslim? maybe cover their heads , but still display their breasts? (bit like the Cannibal converted to christianity, and on Friday he only ate fishermen?).
2. Judges, not wrong - and dont forget Governor Generals.
3. a) skimpy dresses, you bet!. (Also pretty keen on leather, maybe whips on weekends, lol).
3. b) I've posted a poem on the poetry thread - "Funny how fashions have shifted" - one verse about our ole mate Neanderthal (from Dusseldorf).
3. c) Found a couple of quotes :-
*"Virtue has always been conceived as a victorious resistance to one's vital desire" - James Cabell (So the Al Hilali answer? - "lead me not into temptation - on second thoughts - since I can't trust myself - hide the temptation under 20 yards of curtain material". )
*" Any of us can achieve virtue, if by virtue we merely mean the avoidance of the vices which do not attract us"- Robert S Lynd.
*"How easy is it to be virtuous when we have no inclination to be otherwise" Dalf Wyllarde.
4. possible exception of ones that come to Aus and get a bit westernised.
5. & 6. agreed. But I love the fact that moslems are outraged as well.
PS You're not gonna believe this but the bloke down the road thinks that mufti 's belong in Tasmania?

new girl · 27 October 2006

2020hindsight said:
Thirdly the council workers are refusing to be seen wearing their tradional blue singlets, hairy chests, and various cleavage cracks (hairy of otherwise). - and they are insisting that if they wear shorts and as a result are raped by some passing lady whilst on duty , then they are entitled to the rest of the day off. !(

I can see how I failed to make my point. I wonder if we will see more men wearing singlets this summer, council and otherwise!!

2020hindsight · 28 October 2006

new girl said:
I can see how I failed to make my point. I wonder if we will see more men wearing singlets this summer, council and otherwise!!

Newgirl - its called brainstorming , we feed on each others ideas around here the ABC call it type back radio i think. I was of course responding to your challenge (whether I realised it or not) :-

5. I am interested to hear from you and the other guys how they would feel if someone implied that somehow wearing a singlet in summer could get you raped?

It was your idea this concept of this sexy singlet dude
and so vulnerable that women in an instant saw him nude
the TEMPTATION there to TACKLE him and HAVE YOUR WAY - so kissible -
...
I just added "brickies cleavage" - just to make him irresissible

new girl · 28 October 2006

2020hindsight said:
Newgirl - its called brainstorming , we feed on each others ideas around here the ABC call it type back radio i think. I was of course responding to your challenge (whether I realised it or not)

Brainstorming, eh? I just got an idea, Al Hilali wearing the hotest singlet, bum crack and all in Silverwater jail? hopefully raped by adoring fans!!

I tell you I'll be the first in line to hear his sermon after that.

greggy · 28 October 2006

kennas said:
I fear that we are at the beginings of a long term situation in Australia where there is a stand off between Muslims, and the rest. They are going to paint themselves into a corner and cause long term conflict in our society. The golden age of a peaceful Australia is over.

(not counting destroying the Aboriginals)

Hi Kennas,

I hope you're proved to be wrong for the sake of this country, but I also feel that a lot of people are worried. I feel that we should look for positive things that bind us together as a nation.
I have a young daughter and was sickened by the religious leader's comments. I know a number of people who are Muslims. They too couldn't work out the religious leader's comments.

2020hindsight · 28 October 2006

THE AROUSAL OF THE BLOUSE, AS ACTRESS SAID TO MUFTI.
so That's it !! blame the short sleeved blouse!! - those women's arms are bare!!
and sight of arms can sure arouse, and FORCE men to go spare,
and groups of girls are instant cows, bulls humping everywhere,
that's why god gave us brutal powers - that bare arm's like a DARE!!

so That's it !! blame the mini skirt !! - because men gauk and gape
and smiling means youre just a flirt, and ready for a rape
and sight of just a dab of knee can turn priest into ape
so like the klu klux Klan, you see, all girls must wear a cape

the best capes come in colours, mainly black and hot as hell
you can see em at the gold coast - whyfore wear them? hard to tell
as for women joining - wide eyed - like a rose's purest smell
but they sadly fit them blinkers, - must be such a rock hard "sell".
(hard to ride a surfboard as well )

and there's so much talk of morals and these matters high and lofty
and this mufti is on sickleave and he's really such a softie
now the Whitehouse needs a whitewash, (nice diversion when you're stuftie)
like an olive and the capsicum (said actress to her mufti).

Let's just ...GET IN SOMEONE SENSIBLE!!, my moslem friends, and kin,
His stance is indefensible, quid bono, given in!!
He's stalling on the stepping down, and bunkered down with spin
And he's proving to the world he knows so little about sin.

anon · 28 October 2006

Rafa said:
Thats rather defeatest Kennas...

Are you underestimating the religion of the 21st century... Capitalism, that is sweeping all before it?

Capitalism has indeed swept communism out of Europe and other parts of the world, but it hasn't been 100% successful.

Communism in its heyday was a powerful force and one of its aims has been destruction of all religions in its territories, including that of the Muslims. Once communism collapsed all the suppressed religions came out of the hiding and have grown ever stronger, which shows that you can kill bodies, but not the spirit.

It's a nice thought that capitalism will pacify Islam, but I can't see that happening any time soon. Muslims come mainly from Middle East, a place where they have been pumping liquid gold out of the ground and selling it to the West at top prices over a number of decades by now. Yet the enormous amounts of money they have been getting from the west hasn't affected Muslims' religious aims. Money is not their objective. Domination by Islam is.

Sheik Hilaly lived in Australia for 25 years and he still can't speak English. In that time he hasn't learned to understand us either. If you read the whole of his speech and not just the part about cats and meat, you will begin to understand that he is applying his knowledge of the Lebanese society in Australia to the mainstream, to our great disadvantage.

This guy is a fanatic who teaches hatred from the pulpit, but this time he has done the nation a valuable service by bringing out Muslim thinking into the open.

anon

2020hindsight · 28 October 2006

:topic hello hello - I think we have another one (or two lol)

Not only is there "a whole lot of Sheiking going on ", but this as well :-not rape this time , but consenting homosexual sex - amongst animals - and where the money should be better spent - see last line lol. The Pentecostal priest reckons ...ahhh, its too stupid to repeat lol.... maybe he's an ostrich with his head in the sand - then again - he'd better watch out there might be another ostrich walking past that's "similarly inclined"

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200610/s1775806.htm

'Against Nature?'
The exhibition, entitled "Against Nature?", displays examples of this behaviour in pictures and models. In one image, two female adult bonobo chimpanzees are having sex, oblivious to a young male who is attempting to join in.

These peaceful primates - with whom humans shares 99 per cent of their genetic make-up - use sex as a stress reliever, regardless of age and gender barriers. ........It has been reported that in certain bird species males double up, allowing them to control a larger territory than a heterosexual couple, which in turn serves to attract more females. ...Among swans and flamingos there have been cases of two females living together using sexual contact with males purely to reproduce.

While the images displayed at the Natural History Museum wash over passing school children, the exhibition has sparked consternation in conservative Christians.

A Lutheran priest said he hoped the organisers would "burn in hell," and a Pentecostal priest lashed out at the exhibition, saying taxpayers' money used for it would have been better spent helping the animals correct "their perversions and deviances".

2020hindsight · 28 October 2006

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200610/s1775822.htm

Kevin Rudd:- "Attorney-General Philip Ruddock needs to make a statement about whether or not the sheikh's comments equal an incitement to violence under the terms of Australia's criminal code," he said. "You can't simply sound hairy-chested about Sheikh Hilaly's comment on one hand and then leave unanswered the question of whether he's breached Australia's criminal law."

There's that old favourite of Rudd's "hairy chested" - (just cos he's got a really hairy chest I guess). Anyway, on this occasion, Ruddy, imho, I think a more apt description is "sick to our stomachs". But it sure would be interesting if they could charge him - perverting the course of perverts maybe?
"with a nickers knackers piece of meat, give the cat a boner... this old man came ... "''

Religious leader condemns RAPE

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