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Religion IS crazy!

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sptrawler said:
At the end of the day, it will be interesting to see if the full findings are made public.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Don't bet on it. If you heard Pell's press convo today, he will claim Confessional Privilege. If any one of the criminals (aka "Priests") has confessed his sins, repented, and obtained absolution, he must be presumed innocent; and the priest, who accepted the confession, can't be giving evidence.
The game is rigged!

I found it also sickening that he waved the handbook over his head, implying that was proof that the church had a good handle on the situation. Even worse were his repeated statements that these atrocities hadn't only happened in the Catholic church, and the Press were just singling them out in an exaggerated witch hunt.

Surely, the facts must have been known all the way up the hierarchy; hiding behind the "sacrament" of a confession doesn't diminish their responsibility and complicity. But just as Howard blocked the Royal Commission in 2005 (I believe it was), it will be hard to find a Politician or Court with the guts to bite the bullet and bring the entire bunch of co-conspirators to justice.
 
That interview with Pell suggests that he still just doesn't get the utter criminality and vileness that constitutes what happened to so many young people at the hands of these messengers of God.
He seemed to regard it all as a bit of an irritation.
 
If Pell wants to maintain the secrecy of confession, then he could go half way to helping stamp out pedophelia by insisting the clergy hearing confessions of pedophelia give by way of penance a demand to the offending priest that he report his offence to the police. Three Hail Marys is not sufficient. One would assume that the offending priest goes to confession because he believes he will be forgiven. If forgiveness is dependent on also confessing to the police, the priest will either have to chose to die with mortal sin on his soul or get forgiveness by facing a criminal trial and resultant punishment.

If one were to argue that priests would not confess if that were the case, then you would also have to accept that priests would also not confess if they knew their confession would be reported by the priest that hears it.
 
Howard refused to look at any of the atrocities, remember Rudd came in and said the official sorry with Malcolm Turnbull.
 
Tink said:
Howard refused to look at any of the atrocities, remember Rudd came in and said the official sorry with Malcolm Turnbull.
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Rudd's apology - as I remember it - wasn't with Malcolm Turnbull. It was very much Rudd on his own, and it was to the Aboriginal people for their being taken away from the parents.
 
Tink said:
Howard refused to look at any of the atrocities, remember Rudd came in and said the official sorry with Malcolm Turnbull.
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I think Howard was advised that an applogy would trigger massive legal action.
 

I think this RC into the Catholic Church has the potential to do it enormous damage, the cover ups go all the way to the top including Pell no doubt, so great influence will be brought to bear to get them off the hook.
The Catholic Church are very powerful make no mistake about it.
 
MrBurns said:
On the other hand..........

Click here: Sistine Chapel - move around with your mouse, zoom in with tools at the bottom left.

http://www.vatican.va/various/cappelle/sistina_vr/index.html
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No doubt, Mr Burns, that artists have created great master pieces. Some of them happened to be contracted by the Church. Others by a rich nobleman, merchant, or even off their own inspiration.
Listen to JSB's Brandenburg Concertos; they're just as passionate and beautiful as his Christmas Oratorio, St John's Passion, or cantatas. Sculptures by Praxiteles, Rodin, Eriksen are non-religious, but just as awe-inspiring as any Pieta or David.

I'm not insinuating that your reference was intended to defend the criminal acts by Pell's minions or mass murder by believers in houris and blessed afterlife. But I do contend that great art will project great emotions, be they passion, awe, peace, or terror. The intensity of such emotions doesn't depend on the subject, but purely on the artist's capability - and, maybe, to an extent on the observer's capability to appreciate art. The vandals that blasted the magnificent Buddha statues in the name of Islam are a prime example of the lack of any human emotions necessary for the latter.
 
pixel said:
I'm not insinuating that your reference was intended to defend the criminal acts by Pell's minions or mass murder by believers in houris and blessed afterlife. .
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Not at all pixel, that was just sent to me and I was fascinated, you zoom in and it's a clear as if you were there.

Your knowledge of the arts is impressive.
 
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Yes, but somehow that combination of visual beauty and glorious singing creates a sense of the truly awesome.
I'm opposed to religion but allowing the succumbing of the mind to the sound and sense of place allowed me a small glimmer of understanding of how people can be persuaded to the notion of a heavenly presence.

But then I feel similarly listening to the Bruch Violin Concerto No. 1 or the Brahms symphonies, so your point is well made.
 
I remember when I was 13 yrs old, I was living in Dampier in the N/W of W.A. My parents were from a christian background being U.K immigrants. The year was 1968.
There was no T.V, no radio so you had to make your own entertainment. As a 13yr old that meant a lot of sport and running around the bush barefoot, trying to catch a joey for a pet.
Then a new reverend arrived in town, caught all the kids attention.
He started a youth club up, where we could all go and he would encourage us all to try new things, like table tennis, grass court tennis, carpet bowls.
He wasn't pushy at all, just encouraged us all to be open minded about christianity and decide for yourself.
It was a terrific period in my life, he started a church group in Roeburne with the aboriginals and we all went away on camping trips, to Cossack. Fabulous times.
During that period, I decided no it's not for me, don't believe it, it's a fairy tale.
But I can tell you that guy gave a lot of young people, indigenous and whites a great deal of inspiration.
Terrible things have been done, I just hope people like the guy I mentioned above, aren't tarnished by the fallout.
 

You too make some good points, Julia;
The slow movement of Mendelssohn's Violin Concerto does it for me; but you realise that those feelings are all "in the mind", and it has now been proven that high-quality music tends to stimulate brain activity to unequaled levels. I would contend that such stimulation may have the potential to "lead a soul to god", but only if the mind has previously been indoctrinated to seek such an external source of wonderment. Given a different pre-conditioning, the stimulation can just as easily be channeled towards science or other more creative endeavours. Evidence for that is the high correlation of musical and scientific talent that has been widely observed and documented. Most famous example is of course the quite accomplished violinist Albert Einstein. Before becoming the famous Doctor of Lambarene, Albert Schweitzer was known for rediscovering J.S. Bach; in my younger years, I listened to him playing the organ in St John's Church in my home town - and came close enough to being "called" as well. Happy to report that Science ended up winning me over.

So, not every aspect of religion is all bad; just like a mind-altering drug, it can intensify one's experience and channel one's mental processes towards great achievements. Depending on one's predisposition, the result can be very beneficial for oneself and society, or it can be a disaster. Genius and paranoia are but two sides of the same coin: they're both deviations from an "average" state of mind.
 
Julia said:
Rudd's apology - as I remember it - wasn't with Malcolm Turnbull. It was very much Rudd on his own, and it was to the Aboriginal people for their being taken away from the parents.
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Thanks Julia, I am sure I read it had to do with the institutions and care in government as well, I could be wrong.
Sadly there are bad apples in all organisations that destroy it for the honest ones, and I hope they are all cleared out.
 
FOOD FOR THOUGHT

I liked this, because it actually is a True story that wisely debates an extremely twisted concept that even Islam has failed to note. See what you think - fear factors aside. We all gotta find a way to get along on this globe.

With Muslims establishing their own schools, one wonders how their kids will acquire our values and be able to successfully integrate into our society.

This incident happened in London .

The Uncomfortable Definition of an Infidel....

FACT: Islam is the fastest growing religion in the UK

Last month I attended my annual training session for maintaining my security clearance as a Chaplain in the UK prison service.
There was a presentation by three speakers from the Roman Catholic, Protestant and Muslim faiths, who explained their beliefs.

I was particularly interested in what the Islamic Imam had to say about the basics of Islam, complete with video.

After the presentations, question time. I directed my question to the Imam and asked: 'Correct me if I'm wrong, but I understand that most Imams and clerics of Islam have declared a Holy War against the infidels of the world and, that by killing an infidel, (which is a command to all Muslims) they are assured of a place in heaven. If that's the case, can you give me the definition of an infidel?'

There was no disagreement with my statement and, without hesitation he replied, 'Non-believers!'

I responded, 'So let me make sure I have this straight. All followers of Allah have been commanded to kill everyone who is not a follower of Allah, so they can have a place in heaven. Is that correct?'
The expression on his face changed from one of authority to that of a little boy who had just been caught with his hand in the biscuit tin.'

He sheepishly replied, 'Yes.'

I then stated, 'Well, I have a real problem trying to imagine Pope Benedict commanding all Catholics to kill Muslims, or the Archbishop of Canterbury ordering all Protestants to do the same in order to guarantee them a place in heaven!'

The Imam was speechless!

I continued, 'I also have a problem with being your 'friend' when you and your brother clerics are telling your followers to kill me! Let me ask you a question. Would you rather have your Allah, who tells you to kill me in order for you to go to heaven, or my Jesus who tells me to love you because He will take me to heaven and He wants you to be there with me?'

You could have heard a pin drop as the Imam remained speechless.

Needless to say, the organizers of the Diversification seminar were not happy with this way of exposing the truth about the Muslims' beliefs.
Within twenty years, ie. 2032, there will be enough Muslim voters in the UK to elect a government of their choice, complete with Sharia law.

Everyone in the WORLD. should be required to read this, but with the current political paralysis, an incompetent justice system, Left Wing media and P.C...madness, there is no way this will be widely publicised.

Please pass this on to all your e-mail contacts.

John Harrison MBE. MIDSc
http://au.linkedin.com/in/josemoniz1964
 
Tilopa's Six Words of Advice. Good for trading.


1 Don’t recall........... Let go of what has passed .......... mi mno
2 Don’t imagine........... Let go of what may come ............. mi bsam
3 Don’t think ............ Let go of what is happening now.......... mi shes
4 Don’t examine............. Don’t try to figure anything out.......... mi dpyod
5 Don’t control ............ Don’t try to make anything happen ............. mi sgom
6 Rest ....................... Relax, right now, and rest ............. rang sar bzhag


Dzogchen. Mahamudra. Worth a look.
 
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