Religion IS crazy!

[SirRumpole]

Seems like that woman had her ideology screwed up. Her son was a sinner as soon as he was born and it was up to her to save him.

I don't think she read her Bible much.

 

[luutzu]

I am warming to you Calliope, you have good intentions but your delivery is a bit harsh (like someone with a South African accent).

Must be that time of the year again, I am starting to like the enemy.

There are no enemies here, only frenemies.

 

[sydboy007]

It's amazing that Christians and Muslims to work against atheism, just a shame they can't agree on mor eimportant issues.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-of-god-is-under-threat-globally-9913662.html

...Najib Razak, the Prime Minister of Malaysia, who has called “humanism and secularism as well as liberalism” a “deviant” threat to Islam and the state. In a speech to the Quran Recital Assembly Razak said: “We will not tolerate any demands or right to apostasy by Muslims.”

Saudi Arabia is criticised for a new law equating “atheism” with “terrorism”. The very first article of the kingdom’s new terror regulations banned: “Calling for atheist thought in any form, or calling into question the fundamentals of the Islamic religion”.

In November, in a development which the report found particularly worrying, Christian churches in Egypt say they are joining forces with Al-Azhar, a prominent centre of Sunni Muslim learning, to fight the spread of atheism in the country.

In Saudi Arabia, where a growing number of young people have privately declared themselves atheist, the consequences can be severe. Raef Badawi, in his early 30s, was accused of being atheist because he called for freedom to discuss other versions of Islam besides Wahhabism on the website “Free Saudi Liberals.” Badawi was sentenced to seven years in prison and 600 lashes in July 2013.

lest it seems this is islamaphobic

Even Scotland came under criticism for the religiously privileged position afforded to three “religious representatives” who are required by law to be appointed to all 32 local authority education committees.

These positions require at least one Roman Catholic and one Church of Scotland representative, but non-religious people are excluded. The report also highlighted the disparity of sex and relationships education, and religious education between Roman Catholic faith schools and others in Scotland.

 

[pavilion103]

It's amazing that Christians and Muslims to work against atheism, just a shame they can't agree on mor eimportant issues. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/politics/how-the-right-to-deny-the-existence-of-god-is-under-threat-globally-9913662.html lest it seems this is islamaphobic

Could not think of a more important issue than if God exists or not. It determines the basis of entire reality.

 

[luutzu]

Could not think of a more important issue than if God exists or not. It determines the basis of entire reality.

It might be more important to live the life of a good and moral person (just because it's a good thing to do) than to enforce harsh and unjust laws against blasphemers.

 

[sydboy007]

Could not think of a more important issue than if God exists or not. It determines the basis of entire reality.

Can I ask how you get around the whole God is pro slavery issue?

How is the below moral

When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)

I really want to hear how beating someone close to death, not so they die today but survives for a day or two, what moral code can hold this up as a just way for a society to operate? I don't need an externally sourced morality to know I don't want to be a slave, therefore other wont want to be a slave. If you didn't know if you'd be a master or slave, would you want to live in a society with slavery?

So if God foudn it was easy enough to command thou shalt not kill, how hard would it have been to command thou shalt not own another human?

Then we have

If you buy a Hebrew slave, he is to serve for only six years. Set him free in the seventh year, and he will owe you nothing for his freedom. If he was single when he became your slave and then married afterward, only he will go free in the seventh year. But if he was married before he became a slave, then his wife will be freed with him. If his master gave him a wife while he was a slave, and they had sons or daughters, then the man will be free in the seventh year, but his wife and children will still belong to his master. But the slave may plainly declare, 'I love my master, my wife, and my children. I would rather not go free.' If he does this, his master must present him before God. Then his master must take him to the door and publicly pierce his ear with an awl. After that, the slave will belong to his master forever. (Exodus 21:2-6 NLT)

Notice how they can get a male Hebrew slave to become a permanent slave by keeping his wife and children hostage until he says he wants to become a permanent slave. What kind of family values are these? yet this is the infalible word of God condoning slavery.

Now before you try the standard Christian apologetic argument of old vs new testaments, here's what the new scriptures have to say:

Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ. (Ephesians 6:5 NLT)

Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them. (1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT)

I'd suggest you check out the below video and let us know how your morality compares to God's as written down in the infallible book of his



Oh, and have you been able to explain why the earliest version of the bible doesn't refer to the resurrection of Jesus?

The Vatican concedes that Mark was the first Gospel written (‘Catholic Encyclopedia’, Farley Ed., Vol. vi, p. 657), and that it later became the prototype of the gospels of Matthew and Luke. In the Sinai Bible’s version of the Gospel of Mark, we see dramatic variations from its modern-day counterpart with an extraordinary omission that later became the central doctrine of the Christian faith … the resurrection appearances of the Gospel Jesus Christ and his subsequent ascension into heaven.

It is a fact of Christian history that the earliest Gospels did not record a resurrection of Jesus Christ, and that claim is supported in the oldest known complete Bible available to mankind today. Called the Codex Sinaiticus, or Sinai Bible, it was named after Mt. Sinai, the location of St. Catherine’s Monastery where it was discovered in 1859 by Dr. Constantine Von Tischendorf (1815-1874). The discovery of the Sinai Bible provided biblical scholars with irrefutable evidence of wilful falsifications in all modern-day Gospels, and a comparison identified a staggering 14,800 later editorial alterations in modern Bibles.

With the Sinai Bible, Christian history is traced back as far as it can conceivably go, but it was still written, at best, more than 350 years after the time the Vatican says Jesus Christ walked the sands of Palestine. The ‘Catholic Encyclopedia’ agrees to this extraordinary late composition of the world’s oldest Bible:

’The earliest of the extant manuscripts [relating to Christianity], it is true, do not date back beyond the middle of the fourth century AD’. (‘Catholic Encyclopedia’, 1909, ‘Gospels’)

 

[bunyip]

Syd – We’d don’t need a morality meter to tell us how moral or immoral we are – we’ve got our own morality meter right here on the forum in the form of our friend Pav. We’re all truly selfish and wicked according to him.

But hang on a minute – what if you’re a person of honesty and integrity who works tirelessly for your community, what if you’re someone like Mother Theresa or Dr Fred Hollows who devoted their lives to helping others, what if you’re a volunteer firefighter or surf lifesaver or you’re in the volunteer coastguard or the SES, or any of the other volunteer services that require you to put your life on the line time and again to save the lives of others? And you’re a person of impeccable character and integrity as well? Doesn’t that count for something?
Nope – doesn’t matter...Pav tells us we’re all selfish and wicked, so we must be!

If we put mine or yours or anyone's thoughts up on a projector for all to see we would see how truly selfish and wicked we all are at the core.

 

[bunyip]

Could not think of a more important issue than if God exists or not. It determines the basis of entire reality.

I see no importance at all in whether God exists or not. If he/she does exist and is responsible for creating the human race and the world we live in, great. If he/she/it doesn’t exist and we owe our existence to something else, then that’s OK too.

What’s not OK is when people invent lies to support their belief in God, or when they commit atrocities because they believe that’s what their god wants them to do, or when people like you denounce every person as sinful and wicked because you’ve been brainwashed into believing that God has high standards that nobody can live up to.

Far more important than the brainwashed bull**** you believe in, friend Pav, is that we live our lives as decent people of honesty and integrity. I suggest you keep that in mind as you live your life in 2015 and beyond.

 

[sydboy007]

I see no importance at all in whether God exists or not. If he/she does exist and is responsible for creating the human race and the world we live in, great. If he/she/it doesn’t exist and we owe our existence to something else, then that’s OK too.

What’s not OK is when people invent lies to support their belief in God, or when they commit atrocities because they believe that’s what their god wants them to do, or when people like you denounce every person as sinful and wicked because you’ve been brainwashed into believing that God has high standards that nobody can live up to.

Far more important than the brainwashed bull**** you believe in, friend Pav, is that we live our lives as decent people of honesty and integrity. I suggest you keep that in mind as you live your life in 2015 and beyond.

Considering each sect has their own interpretation of what God is and what he wants, it makes it very difficult to determine which, if any, could be true.

Then there's the issue of how mere mortals in the natural world could in any way assess a supernatural event, and even if we could, that wouldn't actually prove it was by God.

I'd love the Christian appologists to provide me with some verifiable proof that God exists. I don't see why Saul is the only one who gets a direct intervention by God. Surely a supremely intelligent being would go OH, If I present myself to people they believe. This faith thing doesn't really work too well, especially since God supposedly gave us free will (except in the case of Pharoh where he hardened his heart, so it's free will till he decides we don't deserve it?) you'd think it's a logical conclusion that presenting verifiable evidence trumps pretty much any other way of getting people to believe.

 

[sydboy007]

sums up 99% of the cause of wars over the last few millennia

 

[FxTrader]

Considering each sect has their own interpretation of what God is and what he wants, it makes it very difficult to determine which, if any, could be true.

All God concepts are essentially man made constructs created to explain existence and intended to provide meaning, purpose, and a sense of order to the cosmos to a cult of believers. Since there has never been any verifiable, conclusive and irrefutable evidence that any God concept is true or correct then all must be classified as fiction by rational, reasonable persons who are not inclined to suspend their intellect by indulging in faith-based supernatural, metaphysical explanations for existence.

Then there's the issue of how mere mortals in the natural world could in any way assess a supernatural event, and even if we could, that wouldn't actually prove it was by God.

In the context of the religious believer, any event that can't be immediately or adequately explained by the existing body of human knowledge or experience is by default supernatural and attributable to their particular God.

I'd love the Christian appologists to provide me with some verifiable proof that God exists.

You will be waiting in vain since there is none, the religious want to put the onus back on you to prove there is no God and since you can't any mythology is potentially valid and must be a "respected" belief that you have no right to challenge. As for proof in the form of evidence, it never ceases to amaze me as to what the religious believer will accept as hard "evidence" for believing the fantastic claims scribed in their magic books. Separating human emotion from religious belief is difficult as they are closely intertwined and where strong emotional attachment is involved rational thought is often a casualty.

 

[Value Collector]

Could not think of a more important issue than if God exists or not. It determines the basis of entire reality.

Yes, But before we rush off and join the nearest church or the religion that makes us feel good or even just the religion of our parents or geographic region, wouldn't it be important to try and prove that a god exists first?

The religious folk have the cart before the horse, they all argue that their version of god is the one true reality, yet none of them can prove that a god exists at all, or even that it is possible for a god to exist.

They claim to know the mind of god and what he/she wants of us, but fail to prove this god exists at all.

 

[bunyip]

Yes, But before we rush off and join the nearest church or the religion that makes us feel good or even just the religion of our parents or geographic region, wouldn't it be important to try and prove that a god exists first?

The religious folk have the cart before the horse, they all argue that their version of god is the one true reality, yet none of them can prove that a god exists at all, or even that it is possible for a god to exist.

They claim to know the mind of god and what he/she wants of us, but fail to prove this god exists at all.

Pretty much the same story with Heaven. There’s not a shred of evidence that some place called Heaven actually exists, yet they all know they’re going there, and many of them believe they’ll be sitting at the right hand of God their father to help him run his kingdom.
They’ll all live in peace and harmony despite some rather undesirable neighbors such as pedophile priests and bikie thugs and mafia gangster types who booked their passage to heaven by confessing their sins before they died. And let’s not forget all the Muslim terrorists who will be there because they did what Allah commanded.
And overcrowding and the tensions that usually accompany it won’t be an issue apparently, despite the billions and billions of people who have settled permanently in Heaven over the centuries.
Religious differences and tribal tensions won’t be a problem either in this big happy family. Forget about the fact that in the previous life back on Earth, the Jehovah's Witnesses hate the Catholics and the Jews hate the Christians, and the Muslims regard everyone as an infidel unless they're Muslim. None of that will be an issue in Heaven where everyone magically gets on well with everyone else, and life is all roses and honey.

Fair dinkum – not even the fanciful stories from kid’s fairytale books can match the fantastic stories about Heaven.

 

[sydboy007]

I thoroughly recommend ironchariots.org

It's a real treasure trove of the sad arguments provided by theists on their dissembling ways to proving their version of God exists.

http://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=Apologetics

 

[Tisme]

What I don't like is the extra, unearned respect some people give to church goers, because they have a general feeling that church makes people better, which is not the case.

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Certainly if that person was Jew, Muslim or Catholic, but when it comes to religious lite, like Anglicans and Uniting Church there is s certain amount of belief they are being coached weekly in good manners and harmony with candy canes, fairy floss, Smurphs, unicorns, etc and you can't get more wholesome than that!

 

[bunyip]

Certainly if that person was Jew, Muslim or Catholic, but when it comes to religious lite, like Anglicans and Uniting Church there is s certain amount of belief they are being coached weekly in good manners and harmony with candy canes, fairy floss, Smurphs, unicorns, etc and you can't get more wholesome than that!

Well I grew up in a Methodist family, and then later the Methodists merged with the Presbyterian and Congregational religions to form the Uniting Church of which I became a member.
And yes, I was coached in good manners and harmony and other desirable behavioral and character traits such as honesty and integrity, but there was never any candy canes or fairy floss of smurphs or unicorns involved.

Unfortunately my religion also fed me a lot of extraordinary claims and beliefs that it was completely unable to substantiate.

 

[SirRumpole]

Well I grew up in a Methodist family, and then later the Methodists merged with the Presbyterian and Congregational religions to form the Uniting Church of which I became a member.
And yes, I was coached in good manners and harmony and other desirable behavioral and character traits such as honesty and integrity, but there was never any candy canes or fairy floss of smurphs or unicorns involved.

Unfortunately my religion also fed me a lot of extraordinary claims and beliefs that it was completely unable to substantiate.

Pretty close to my experience.

Although I didn't mesh with the philosophy, I can't argue with the general decency and citizenship of the people involved in the Uniting church. I presume the Anglicans and Baptists are similar, they are the "middle of the road" Christians, unlike the Hillsongs or Catholics.

 

[Tisme]

Well I grew up in a Methodist family.................but there was never any candy canes or fairy floss of smurphs or unicorns involved.

.

You were jipped !!!

 

[bunyip]

Pretty close to my experience.

Although I didn't mesh with the philosophy, I can't argue with the general decency and citizenship of the people involved in the Uniting church. I presume the Anglicans and Baptists are similar, they are the "middle of the road" Christians, unlike the Hillsongs or Catholics.

Same here – I found church goers to be basically pretty good and decent people, an odd bad apple among them, but not many.

But as someone pointed out, most people in sports clubs or other community organizations are decent people too, irrespective of whether they practice a religion.

What are the ‘Hillsongs’?...that’s a new one on me.

 

[SirRumpole]

What are the ‘Hillsongs’?...that’s a new one on me.

Pentecostalists, talking in tongues, that sort of thing. Not particularly useful.