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Religion IS crazy!

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Value Collector said:
i can't see a problem with multiculturalism, I think people should be able to live however they want, provided they are not causing harm. I think the net effect of multiculturalism is positive.
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It depends on how far it goes.

The essential part of multiculturalism is all people obey the same laws, and are loyal to the country that they live in. Within that framework there also should be some requirements, such as they are required to speak and understand the official language of the country of their residence. Other than that, if they want to follow Gaellic footbal or open Korean restaurants that's fine.
 
SirRumpole said:
The essential part of multiculturalism is all people obey the same laws, and are loyal to the country that they live in. Within that framework there also should be some requirements, such as they are required to speak and understand the official language of the country of their residence. .
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Agreed,

Other than that, if they want to follow Gaellic footbal or open Korean restaurants that's fine
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Diversity is part of what makes this country great,
 
http://www.christiantoday.com/article/aliens.cant.be.saved.says.creationist.ken.ham/39061.htm

"It's highly improbable in the limitless vastness of the universe that we humans stand alone," said Bolden.

Even if that turns out to be the case, the Answers in Genesis founder says the Earth was "specially created" by God and the sin committed on Earth would affect the rest of creation.

"You see, the Bible makes it clear that Adam's sin affected the whole universe," he said.

"This means that any aliens would also be affected by Adam's sin, but because they are not Adam's descendants, they can't have salvation."

In his view, Christ's work of salvation would only apply to humans as the descendents of Adam.

"Jesus did not become the 'GodKlingon' or the 'God Martian'!" he wrote. "Only descendents of Adam can be saved. God's Son remains the 'Godman' as our Savior. In fact, the Bible makes it clear that we see the Father through the Son (and we see the Son through His Word). To suggest that aliens could respond to the Gospel is just totally wrong."

NASA may be committed to hunting for extraterrestrial life, but Ham thinks they should stop right here. The search to find aliens, he suggests, is itself a product of man's sinful nature "driven by man's rebellion against God in a desperate attempt to supposedly prove evolution!"
 
Value Collector said:
Diversity is part of what makes this country great,
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Sometimes I wonder. The Japanese are not diverse but they are doing ok.

Over the years there have been many migrant groups that have contributed to building the country and the economy but recently there seem to be some that come here mainly for the social security benefits. Lack of assimilation , concentration on ones own ethnic/cultural group and a lack of a desire to contribute is eroding the foundations of what many diverse groups have built.

We should be careful about how far we embrace multiculturalism in the future just because it's served us well in the past.
 
With all this intelligent back & forth I don't understand why religious people & atheists not accept our creator (God) as the sun.

It's scientific fact that we are created from the sun & even Jesus was. It's what keeps us alive from birth to death.

Don't mean to offend anyone but to me it's that simple. :)

As to who created the sun? We can theorise all we want but it's not our creator IMO.
 
bunyip said:
Tink

What would you do if your son or daughter had a drinking problem?

This is not a trick question - I really would appreciate an answer if you have time to give me one.
Thanks
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Tink said:
Hi Bunyip,

I am not sure why you are asking me that, but I will answer.

What would any parent do? Find out why.
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Tink – thanks for taking the time to reply.
I imagine that after finding out why your child had a drinking problem, you’d take it further by perhaps suggesting a session with a professional who’s trained to help people with drug and alcohol addiction, or maybe you’d contact Alcoholic Anonymous and get your child to go along to their meetings.
In short, as a good parent you’d do everything you could to help your son or daughter - you’d never ever write them off as unworthy of your help.

I recall you saying in one of your posts that you don’t think we can make our own rules. You’re adamant that we need religion to give us rules and guidelines to live by.
Are you aware of what guidelines the Bible gives us for dealing with a drunken son? It tells us we should hand him over the the city elders so they can stone him to death. It doesn’t mention how to treat drunken daughters, but I think we can assume that they should be subjected to even harsher treatment. After all, females are generally treated much worse that males under Biblical law.
Now, I know that neither you nor I nor any other decent person would be in favor of something as radical and brutal as that. And yet this is the sort of archaic practice that we’d be adopting if we trusted the word of God implicitly and obeyed his instructions without question.

You think we can’t make up our own rules and guidelines for living decent lives, you feel that we need the guidance of God and religion to accomplish this. I see it rather differently. I’m damn pleased that we have the intelligence to use our judgment and common sense to formulate a code of ethics and moral behavior, rather than just blindly following some of the horrible instructions in the Bible.

It’s easy to cherry-pick the nice parts of the Bible, while ignoring the ugly parts. But the ugly parts are there as well, and should be considered along with the good parts when making an overall assessment of the value of the Bible and religion.
Would we really want to live the kind of life that would result from obeying every instruction the Bible gives us? I wouldn’t and I don't think you would either – I have no wish to be a murderer, a rapist, a subjugator of women, or a low-life who would sell his daughters into slavery.
 
SirRumpole said:
Sometimes I wonder. The Japanese are not diverse but they are doing ok.

Over the years there have been many migrant groups that have contributed to building the country and the economy but recently there seem to be some that come here mainly for the social security benefits. Lack of assimilation , concentration on ones own ethnic/cultural group and a lack of a desire to contribute is eroding the foundations of what many diverse groups have built.

We should be careful about how far we embrace multiculturalism in the future just because it's served us well in the past.
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And every wave of new immigrants has been met with resistance and racism, and now, for me atleast, its hard to imagine not having their influence on our country.

If you want examples of welfare cheats, look no further than the " flag waving, STRAYA!!! Shouting, burn out loving, Ozzie Ozzie Ozzie Bogan communities"
 
chrislp said:
With all this intelligent back & forth I don't understand why religious people & atheists not accept our creator (God) as the sun.

It's scientific fact that we are created from the sun & even Jesus was. It's what keeps us alive from birth to death.

Don't mean to offend anyone but to me it's that simple. :)

As to who created the sun? We can theorise all we want but it's not our creator IMO.
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Lol, the holy trinity of fusion,

Hydrogen, helium, and gravity.

The first sun died for us, exploding its chemical element enriched guts to form the planets and us, another reborn, from the remnants, to give us life.

Lol, I think your onto something.
 
Value Collector said:
If you want examples of welfare cheats, look no further than the " flag waving, STRAYA!!! Shouting, burn out loving, Ozzie Ozzie Ozzie Bogan communities"
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Some of those exist, so do a lot of migrants from the ME who have large families and absorb a lot of family tax benefits.
 
We’ve had millions of immigrants settle in Australia, particularly since World War 2, and it worked well because most of them embraced Australia, our way of life, our culture, and did everything they could to fit in with us and make a positive contribution to our country. The didn’t tried to change us, didn’t demand special privileges, didn’t hold themselves apart from us, didn’t plan terror attacks against us, and they didn’t preach hatred of western values. In short, our immigrants were compatible with us, to our mutual benefit.

If we’d stuck with those sort of immigrants then I’d have no criticism whatever of our immigration policy. Heck, my own ancestors a few generations back were immigrants from Germany, Ireland, Wales, and a couple of other countries as well. And my wife is an immigrant.
But instead of sticking with the sort of immigrants that have generally been beneficial to our country, in more recent times we’ve stupidly allowed mass immigration from Islamic countries, and now, little by little, we’re starting to see some very negative effects, just like every other country that’s made the mistake of mass-importing people from a religion and culture that’s incompatible with the values of the host country.

Over the years I’ve followed the writings of a journo called Greg Sheridan, who grew up in a multicultural neighborhood in Sydney. For many years Sheridan sang the praises of multiculturalism, telling of how it enriched his life growing up with friends from different cultures. More recently, Sheridan has started singing a different tune. In one of his articles he related how he recently went back to his childhood neighborhood to find that it was taken over by Islamists, and it had become an unfriendly and indeed unsafe place for westerners. Now Sheridan is saying that multiculturalism has failed in Australia, or at least is in the process of failing. And I agree with him.
Here’s a link to one of Sheridan’s articles – it’s quite long but well worth a read.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...multiculturalism/story-fn59niix-1226031793805

At the bottom of the article, under the heading ‘THERE ARE NO WORRIES’, it’s interesting to note what Sheridan had to say about multiculturalism back in 1996, compared to his present day feelings on the subject.
 
Unfortunately the Muslim community has now become a key voting bloc which is why we had the Premier of NSW on TV this morning taking part in Ramadhan, in a blatant attempt to win votes from the Muslims. Will Sharia law be next ?
 
Value Collector said:
Funny comedian on sun worship

[video]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6RT6rL2UroE[/video]
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I thought this bloke summed it up nicely when he described religion as 'the all time champion of false promises and exagerated claims'.
That's certainly the conclusion I came to after being raised a Christian. One of the main reasons I abandoned religion is because it promises the world but doesn't deliver.
 
bunyip said:
We’ve had millions of immigrants settle in Australia, particularly since World War 2, and it worked well because most of them embraced Australia, our way of life, our culture, and did everything they could to fit in with us and make a positive contribution to our country. The didn’t tried to change us, didn’t demand special privileges, didn’t hold themselves apart from us, didn’t plan terror attacks against us, and they didn’t preach hatred of western values. In short, our immigrants were compatible with us, to our mutual benefit.

If we’d stuck with those sort of immigrants then I’d have no criticism whatever of our immigration policy. Heck, my own ancestors a few generations back were immigrants from Germany, Ireland, Wales, and a couple of other countries as well. And my wife is an immigrant.
But instead of sticking with the sort of immigrants that have generally been beneficial to our country, in more recent times we’ve stupidly allowed mass immigration from Islamic countries, and now, little by little, we’re starting to see some very negative effects, just like every other country that’s made the mistake of mass-importing people from a religion and culture that’s incompatible with the values of the host country.

Over the years I’ve followed the writings of a journo called Greg Sheridan, who grew up in a multicultural neighborhood in Sydney. For many years Sheridan sang the praises of multiculturalism, telling of how it enriched his life growing up with friends from different cultures. More recently, Sheridan has started singing a different tune. In one of his articles he related how he recently went back to his childhood neighborhood to find that it was taken over by Islamists, and it had become an unfriendly and indeed unsafe place for westerners. Now Sheridan is saying that multiculturalism has failed in Australia, or at least is in the process of failing. And I agree with him.
Here’s a link to one of Sheridan’s articles – it’s quite long but well worth a read.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...multiculturalism/story-fn59niix-1226031793805

At the bottom of the article, under the heading ‘THERE ARE NO WORRIES’, it’s interesting to note what Sheridan had to say about multiculturalism back in 1996, compared to his present day feelings on the subject.
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I agree with you 100% and the influx of Muslims via people smugglers was becoming a worry until Scott Morrison stopped the rot.....Muslims are reasonably controlled in small numbers but as soon as they have the numbers they will show their muscle and demand the use of their own Sharia law.

I did read the attached link right through and note the piece about Julia Gillard...my bolds.

Christopher Caldwell's book, Reflections on the Revolution in Europe, the best book of any kind on public policy I have read, establishes definitively that this has been overwhelmingly a determined illegal immigration, not a refugee question.

The same is happening in northern Australia now, and as the Gillard government loses control of the situation, the number of illegal immigrants, almost all Muslim, will increase, exactly replicating the dynamics of Europe's disaster, though of course on a much smaller scale.



Rudd and Gillard allowed the flood of immigrants, mainly Muslims, to create division and hatred within the community.

The English, Italian and German immigrants who arrived in an orderly fashion in the late 40's and early 50's were mainly good tradesmen and mixed in well with our community.......I was a plumber in those days, I worked with many of them and I can not speak more highly of these people with both their attitude and their skills as tradesmen.
 
SirRumpole said:
Maybe you just aren't meek enough

:)
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lol, I know your joking. But you actually touched on a topic I think is one of the disgusting things religions, especially Christianity do.

They promise cures to the sick, job's to the jobless, money to the poor, rain to the drought stricken, babies to the infertile etc etc you name it religions promise it, and then when the improvements don't come, they blame the victim for not having enough faith or maybe they aren't a true Christian yet etc etc.

But if random chance see's an improvement, they take full credit.
 
Ever thought about the The Lord's Prayer? Like most people brought up as Christians, I learnt to recite the prayer ‘parrot fashion’ during my childhood. I never really thought about what it meant, I never examined it critically to see if it made sense, I was never challenged to do so by my parents, my Sunday school teachers, or by any minister of my church.
Now, as a former Christian, I present this critique of the Lord’s prayer from the perspective of an ex-Christian who isn’t afraid to depart from the Christian thinking that was drummed into me during childhood.
If anyone on this forum sees it differently to me, then by all means disagree with me respectfully and state your own views of the Lord’s prayer. Indeed, I’m posting this here in the hope that it will generate discussion on the topic.
The words in bold are the Lords Prayer. The words in brackets are my comments.

The Lord's Prayer

Our Father, which art in heaven, (‘Our father’?? He/she/it isn’t my father or anyone else’s. ‘Which art in heaven’? We don’t even know if this heaven place exists or where it is if it does exist, therefore I think it’s presumptuous to declare that we know somebody who lives there.)

Hallowed be thy Name (‘Hallowed’ as in venerated, regarded with great respect. Read some of the biblical stories about the outrages and atrocities that God condoned, ordered, or carried out in person, then ask yourself if this character deserves to be regarded with great respect.)

Thy Kingdom come (Not sure about the meaning of this one....if it’s a suggestion that the kingdom of God is coming then it sure is taking a long time to get here. It’s another presumptious statement at best.)

Thy will be done on earth
As it is in heaven (If God’s will is as described in the Bible, then I’m damn pleased that most of us don’t do that sort of thing here on earth. And if that’s what happens in Heaven, then if it exists it can’t be a very nice place and there will be a lot of disappointed people when they get there.)

Give us this day our daily bread (Let’s face it, if you want your daily bread then you have to work for it – nobody gives it to you.)

And forgive us our trespasses (Fat chance of that – the bible has dozens of stories about this vengeful god who, far from forgiving people their trespasses, subjected them to the most brutal treatment for even minor indiscretions.)

As we forgive them that trespass against us (This one makes me laugh – since when does the average person forgive people who wrong them? Do we forgive people who steal our money, rape our sister or daughter, deceive us? Ask the Storm Financial victims if they forgive Cassamatis and ASIC.)

And lead us not into temptation (Another one that makes me laugh –we’re told that God started off the business of temptation by tempting Eve in the Garden of Eden. We’re constantly being tempted. Oh that’s right – it’s not God tempting us, it’s the devil!)

But deliver us from evil (Not much chance of this one happening either – God abandoned his chosen people, the Jews, to the evil of the Nazis, and he doesn’t treat the rest of us any better if we come up against evil of any kind. Don’t kid yourself that your God is going to fight on your side if you ever find youself with your back to the wall).

For thine is the kingdom (There’s that kingdom again – that magical, mythical place where everything is honey and roses!)

The power, and the glory (What power – I’ve never seen any evidence that any supernatural being has any power. What glory – about the only glory I can see in relation to God is when people glorify and worship him/her/it without knowing if what they’re worshipping actually exists.)

For ever and ever (Another presumption that has no known basis of fact. Forever is a long time – we don’t even know if a god exists, let alone that he has a kingdom that will be around forever and ever.)

Amen

(Amen indeed. No doubt I’ll cop some criticism for my forthright dissection of the Lords Prayer. But I wonder how many people have really thought about what it means, rather than just reciting it parrot-fashion without thinking about it.)
 
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