Religion IS crazy!

[Tink]

FX, many that have contributed have not been religious, and they have been shot down, cynic being one.
We are all entitled to our opinions, and you wonder why people don't say things in forums when you say things like that.

As I said, I have my beliefs and have had my own experiences.

We are not going to agree, so leave it at that.

 

[SirRumpole]

Oh, ok . I get it now. Your trying to say that these disparate facts your mentioning are evidence that we are living inside a giant life form, much like microbes live in us.

Well that might make a good sci fi film, But I think that all it is science fiction. I certainly don't think the things you listed as evidence are evidence for what you are suggesting.

Let's take a slightly different tack.

We are currently experimenting with artificial intelligence, pieces of software that we allow to observe their surroundings, and make inferences and decisions on the basis of what they observe and the rules that we lay down for them. In time they may be able to think for themselves and determine the physics behind how they operate, but they exist only in the world of a silicon chip. We, their creators, are outside their physical universe but we control it, and they operate on the rules that we provide them. We may decide to reveal ourselves to them, but that would ruin an interesting experiment would it not ? Just how far can our creations develop on their own?

 

[FxTrader]

FX, many that have contributed have not been religious, and they have been shot down, cynic being one.

Cynic has been a strident apologist and protagonist for the religious cause here. He is not a neutral poster, many of his statements here do not deserve the respect and praise you seem to think they are due. Read such sophistry with a more critical mind.

We are all entitled to our opinions, and you wonder why people don't say things in forums when you say things like that.

Pure intellectual dishonesty there Tink. The religious do not just profess to have an opinion, they claim to possess absolute truth about origins, God and eternal life in the form of fantastic claims in iron-age scrolls, the non-belief in which leads to eternal damnation. Such incredible arrogance can and must be challenged.

As I said, I have my beliefs and have had my own experiences.

You're really referring to faith here, the strong belief in claims made on bad evidence and experiences imagined to be of Godly origin. This is at best self-delusion.

 

[Value Collector]

Let's take a slightly different tack.

We are currently experimenting with artificial intelligence, pieces of software that we allow to observe their surroundings, and make inferences and decisions on the basis of what they observe and the rules that we lay down for them. In time they may be able to think for themselves and determine the physics behind how they operate, but they exist only in the world of a silicon chip. We, their creators, are outside their physical universe but we control it, and they operate on the rules that we provide them. We may decide to reveal ourselves to them, but that would ruin an interesting experiment would it not ? Just how far can our creations develop on their own?

I know what your getting at, sort of like the "we can't prove we are not brains in vats" type matrix stuff. Again I think its a great sci fi story.

But, the time for that software to believe in us is when they have evidence, and the time for us to believe we are software is when we have evidence. Any guess we make about an outside world from our universe would likely be wrong any way even if the concept we true, But since we have no evidence to even suggest the concept is true, I think its better to wait for evidence and just deal with the natural universe we find our selves in.

 

[cynic]

Oh, ok . I get it now. Your trying to say that these disparate facts your mentioning are evidence that we are living inside a giant life form, much like microbes live in us.

Well it did take you a while, but it's great to see that you were finally able to recognise what I was actually saying!

Well that might make a good sci fi film, But I think that all it is science fiction. I certainly don't think the things you listed as evidence are evidence for what you are suggesting.

You are entitled to think whatever you like. Just please remember that our conflicting viewpoints are exactly that, no more and no less.
As I've already stated, I have recognised evidence in science that points towards what you now opine to be science fiction.
Please note that I do not recklessly claim this evidence to be conclusive proof of my stance in this matter, but that scientific evidence does exist nonetheless!

the universe is under intense investigation, at as far as I am aware nothing points to us being part of your sci fi story.

Well if you want to allow your personal philosophy to dictate a filtered view of science and scientific method, I won't stop you, just don't expect me to agree with very much of what you have to say about science or anything science related.

 

[cynic]

FX, many that have contributed have not been religious, and they have been shot down, cynic being one.
We are all entitled to our opinions, and you wonder why people don't say things in forums when you say things like that.

As I said, I have my beliefs and have had my own experiences.

We are not going to agree, so leave it at that.

Well said Tink, and thanks for your supportive comments!

The unfortunate thing about what appears to have become a crusade between conflicting religions is that there are a number of posters that don't believe themselves to be religious, however their deeply entrenched opinions and zealous attacks on those presenting conflicting views strongly suggests otherwise.

 

[cynic]

Cynic has been a strident apologist and protagonist for the religious cause here. He is not a neutral poster, many of his statements here do not deserve the respect and praise you seem to think they are due. Read such sophistry with a more critical mind.


Pure intellectual dishonesty there Tink. The religious do not just profess to have an opinion, they claim to possess absolute truth about origins, God and eternal life in the form of fantastic claims in iron-age scrolls, the non-belief in which leads to eternal damnation. Such incredible arrogance can and must be challenged.


You're really referring to faith here, the strong belief in claims made on bad evidence and experiences imagined to be of Godly origin. This is at best self-delusion.

Thanks for that FX. Have you got any new material for us? I believe that you've already said most of this several times already. You're getting a bit boring!

An intelligent person such as yourself should already be aware that much of the science technology you enjoy today is built on information that was passed down via many of the ancient writings that you so willingly snub!

Talk about ingratitude!!

I believe I've mentioned much of this before. I might be catching a bit of what you've got! (i.e. becoming boring by being painfully repetitious).

 

[cynic]

On the subject of "faith". I've yet to see a single poster to this thread that hasn't demonstrated an enormous amount of faith in their personal opinions!

 

[Value Collector]

As I said, I have my beliefs and have had my own experiences.

 

[Value Collector]

but that scientific evidence does exist nonetheless!

.

The evidence exists, But it doesn't in any way point to the outcome you are suggesting, I fear you have succumb to confirmation bias, You want to believe a hypothesis is possible, and you have found these disparate facts to try and knit together to make it sound plausible.

 

[cynic]

The evidence exists, But it doesn't in any way point to the outcome you are suggesting, I fear you have succumb to confirmation bias, You want to believe a hypothesis is possible, and you have found these disparate facts to try and knit together to make it sound plausible.

Wrong! Please do not presume to know my mind!!

These surprising coincidences knitted together all by themselves, I was merely an observer!
I kept noticing patterns when being taught chemistry, physics and biology. Coincidences kept appearing as I was learning science. My former perception of the world became increasingly improbable in light of this information!
Eventually I had to acknowledge that humanity's popular view of themselves in relation to their universe was hopelessly improbable!

Hence I chose to align myself with what science was actually telling me!!!

 

[Value Collector]

On the subject of "faith". I've yet to see a single poster to this thread that hasn't demonstrated an enormous amount of faith in their personal opinions!

Define faith

 

[Value Collector]

Wrong! Please do not presume to know my mind!!

These surprising coincidences knitted together all by themselves, I was merely an observer!
I kept noticing patterns when being taught chemistry, physics and biology. Coincidences kept appearing as I was learning science. My former perception of the world became increasingly improbable in light of this information!
Eventually I had to acknowledge that humanity's popular view of themselves in relation to their universe was hopelessly improbable!

Hence I chose to align myself with what science was actually telling me!!!

I am not claiming to know your mind, you said it your self, you think there is evidence we are living in a larger life form.

Humans are very good at noticing patterns, and when you suffer from confirmation bias, as i suspect you do, you will see patterns when no true patterns exist.

Don't you find it weird that these facts which appear so self evident to you have been missed by main stream science.

 

[cynic]

Define faith

We've been down this road before!!! I even gave you the dictionary definition and root derivation of the word!!Have you already forgotten our earlier dialogue during the science is a religion debate!

 

[FxTrader]

Thanks for that FX. Have you got any new material for us? I believe that you've already said most of this several times already. You're getting a bit boring!

Repetition of fallacious assertions, ridiculous analogies and fantastic religious claims by yourself and others here does unfortunately require some repetition on my part in retort. The religious bring quite enough material to consider here, absent credible evidence of course. I'll defer to the religious here for creative content, their vivid imaginations and lack of critical thinking allows scope for all manner of mystical expression.

An intelligent person such as yourself should already be aware that much of the science technology you enjoy today is built on information that was passed down via many of the ancient writings that you so willingly snub! Talk about ingratitude!!

Equating the endeavours of scientists over the millennia to better understand the natural order to the incredible tales in religious texts including talking serpents, virgin births, walking on water, resurrections etc. (things which directly conflict with science) is just more repetition of your sophistry here. Boring indeed.

 

[cynic]

I am not claiming to know your mind, you said it your self, you think there is evidence we are living in a larger life form.

Humans are very good at noticing patterns, and when you suffer from confirmation bias, as i suspect you do, you will see patterns when no true patterns exist.

Coulombs law and Newtons Law of gravity.
Reaction of Petroleum with oxygen and it's products by vehicles travelling on "arterial" roads, glucose reacting in our blood stream producing the same chemical outputs.
Multiple descending levels of life observable under a microscope, seemingly oblivious to a higher life form (us) observing them.

Yeah right! No patterns to be found at all!! Please learn some actual science and stop wasting my time!

 

[Value Collector]

We've been down this road before!!! I even gave you the dictionary definition and root derivation of the word!!Have you already forgotten our earlier dialogue during the science is a religion debate!

Yes, but dictionaries only describe usage of words, words can have multiple meanings,

When i use the word faith, I am meaning " strong belief in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual conviction rather than proof "

This is the type of faith we are talking about here, When using that definition of faith, I don't have faith in anything.

However, if you are going to try and bait and switch again by inserting another usage of the word such as, "
complete trust or confidence in someone or something" then it's useless, because that is not the usage the atheists or the theists are referring to.

 

[Duckman#72]

Guess most of you have heard by now of the tragic loss of the Malaysian airliner over the Russian/Ukrainian border, brought down (they think) by a surface to air missile, killing more than 230 people.

At least a dozen times so far this morning I must have heard ‘Our thoughts and prayers are with the families of the victims’.
Thoughts and prayers???!!! I’m sure the grieving relatives are in our thoughts – what a terrible thing to lose loved ones in such horrific circumstances. But prayers?? – what good exactly are prayers going to do? Why do people persist with the foolish notion that prayers are somehow going to help in situations like this!

There are numerous examples of saying/doing things that are meant with the nicest and sincerest intentions but really mean nothing. When I'm at the checkout I often say - "Thankyou, I hope you have a great day". Whether or not the person has a great day will have nothing to do with my hoping, but if it is said warmly and with sincerity the person almost always responds positively and with a smile - and with a "you to."

On a day such as today, to criticise and belittle a comment such as "You are in our thoughts and prayers" is petty, weak and largely immature. Regardless of religious beliefs, most emotionally and intellectually mature people would look behind the comment to the compassionate, wholehearted and genuine message it conveyed. Surely Australian haven't become that detached from their religious heritage, that this comment can cause offense and consternation

I know there are large numbers of the Australian population that are no longer "church attending worshippers", however if Bunyip's view is now commonplace - stop the bus please I want to get off.

This thread has plenty of comments that come across as lordly, patronizing and dripping of condemnation - ironically most coming from those who attack religious institutions for supposedly holding those very same views.

Duckman

 

[Value Collector]

Coulombs law and Newtons Law of gravity.
Reaction of Petroleum with oxygen and it's products by vehicles travelling on "arterial" roads, glucose reacting in our blood stream producing the same chemical outputs.
Multiple descending levels of life observable under a microscope, seemingly oblivious to a higher life form (us) observing them.

Yeah right! No patterns to be found at all!! Please learn some actual science and stop wasting my time!

Your noticing patterns because your ignoring all the other little bits that don't fit the pattern, as i said confirmation bias.

 

[cynic]

Repetition of fallacious assertions, ridiculous analogies and fantastic religious claims by yourself and others here does unfortunately require some repetition on my part in retort. The religious bring quite enough material to consider here, absent credible evidence of course. I'll defer to the religious here for creative content, their vivid imaginations and lack of critical thinking allows scope for all manner of mystical expression.

There's nothing I love more than critical thinking!

Would you care to demonstrate some?

I'm willing to entertain the possibility of one day discovering that some of my beliefs are wrong! Every so often I use critical thinking to review my belief system.

Are you willing to apply your critical thinking to your perception of reality?

Equating the endeavours of scientists over the millennia to better understand the natural order to the incredible tales in religious texts including talking serpents, virgin births, walking on water, resurrections etc. (things which directly conflict with science) is just more repetition of your sophistry here. Boring indeed.

I do not recall ever making definite claims about the specific phenomena to which you refer ("talking serpents, virgin births etc.). I do claim that there is a lot of evidence of intelligence and wisdom in various parts of many of the religious texts. However, given that these texts have been passed down throughout the ages via diverse cultures, languages etc. and as such are subject to misinterpretation. Hence the need to exercise the utmost care and discernment in the examination and interpretation of such texts.