Religion as a fable

[Bobby]

I am hearing that Jeddiism is catching on.

May "The Force" be with you

Yes you may have something there !

Alcoholism seems to be getting more popular as well .

May " The P**s " be in you

 

[It's Snake Pliskin]

Yes you may have something there !

Alcoholism seems to be getting more popular as well .

May " The P**s " be in you

I will drink to that :alcohol:

 

[Bobby]

I will drink to that :alcohol:

Bless you my son :bier: cheers.

 

[wayneL]

Yes you may have something there !

Alcoholism seems to be getting more popular as well .

May " The P**s " be in you

So you guys are Methylated Spiritualists?

 

[It's Snake Pliskin]

So you guys are Methylated Spiritualists?

Yes that is it, and we hold hands

 

[bunyip]

Religion is man made and then there is spirituality.

To me to have a single connection with God is a guide for me day in day out, religion is basically principals over time being developed and trying to abide by them.

Im a Catholic but i disagree with many things they preach. Thats why to me the most important thing is my spirituality because no one can corrupt/disrupt it.

For me its essential, i mean there are times in your life when you say (how am i gonna get through this etc..) and there is no where else to turn but something beyond nature can provide.

If you're a Catholic but disagree with many things they teach, then why don't you change to a religion whose teachings you mostly agree with?

I've always found it completely amazing that Catholics continue to be Catholics even though they basically disagree with its teachings, or worse still, have been victims of some particularly unsavory incidents at the hands of the Catholic church.

One of my mates tells some horrific stories of the physical beatings he and his fellow students copped from the nuns and priests when he attended a Catholic boarding school between the ages of six and twelve.
Any child who cried with homesickness was flogged with a heavy leather strap. Any child who wet his bed copped the same treatment. Remember that we're talking about little kids of six and seven years old, at boarding school, away from their Mums and Dads.
What is truly incredible is that my friend is still a practicing Catholic and he sent his three kids to Catholic schools.

Another bloke I know was sexually abused by two priests at a Catholic boarding school. His religion today? Catholic. And he sent his kids to a Catholic school.

Both the men I mention are good blokes and intelligent as well, yet in my view they exhibit weakness and crass stupidity by not wiping the religion that caused them so much grief. And even more stupidity by having potentially exposed their children to the same sort of treatment at the hands of Catholic priests and nuns.

Why is it that Catholics seem compelled to continue supporting a religion that has a shocking record of paedophilia and physical abuse against children? Sure, it's happened in other religions as well, and is still happening. But the Catholic church seems to have the worst record of all in this regard.

My wife was born and bred in Ireland and raised as a strict Catholic. By the time she reached her late teens she was having serious misgivings about many of the beliefs, teachings and behaviours of the Catholic church.
When she consulted Catholic priests in an effort to address her concerns, she was told it was a sin to question any of the teachings of her church, and she must pray for forgiveness.
She copped this sort of crap for the next couple of years every time she consulted priests to discuss her inner turmoil about her religion. Finally, to her credit she abandoned the Catholic religion and has never been back near it since.
Her sister joined a convent and had just one year left to complete her training as a nun, when she too abandoned the Catholic religion in disgust.
The stories she tells about her experiences and observations of the Catholic religion during her convent years, would make your toe nails curl.

There are many other Catholics who, like my wife and her sister, do not agree with what their religion teaches. But where my wife and her sister differ from the rest is that they had enough courage to turn their backs on a religion they didn't agree with. Very few Catholics seem able to do this.
If someone can explain to me why this is, then I surely would be interested in listening.

Bunyip

 

[retroaugogo]

Yogi, in all seriousness, if I ever did meet a "maker" I'd have some pretty stern words to say about his management skills. This maker would have a lot to answer for.
cheers,

And don't those comments sum up this thread.

Haven't we got the wrong end of the stick!

Matthew 16:25. For he that will save his life, shall lose it: and he that shall lose his life for my sake, shall find it.

 

[Sean K]

I'm with you Bunyip. Isn't it just ludicrous? Or perhaps it's just a human weakness.

 

[Duckman#72]

If you're a Catholic but disagree with many things they teach, then why don't you change to a religion whose teachings you mostly agree with?

There are many other Catholics who, like my wife and her sister, do not agree with what their religion teaches. But where my wife and her sister differ from the rest is that they had enough courage to turn their backs on a religion they didn't agree with. Very few Catholics seem able to do this.
If someone can explain to me why this is, then I surely would be interested in listening.

Bunyip

You make it seem so simple Bunyip but it isn't.

Firstly, your thread seems to suggest that catholics everywhere are just waiting to throw down their Rosary Beads and join your wife in liberation if only they had the courage. You mentioned 4 people that you know personally who have either suffered abuse at the hands of the Catholic church or have been disillusioned with the Church's teachings. To balance your argument, what about all the people you know who are active Church members, who have never been abused a member of the Church and have received much support, and enrichment from their involvement?

The pace of change in the world today is greater than at any other time in history. It is a challenge for any organisation to keep relevant and up to date. Just as any organisation has disgrunted members, so does the Church. Just as all organisations have sexual predators, so does the Church.

Your advice displays a lack of understanding of the belief and faith that people place in their religion. You make it sound like a visit to a different coffee shop. Keep tasting testing until you find the right ambience. It is just not that simple.

The US has 15 new religions registered every week as a consequence of the same "feel good" approach that you are suggesting. The continuous splintering of the mainstream Church's congregations does nothing to further enhance or assist Western Society.

Can you please tell us what religion your wife has joined because I'm sure everyone would like to attend the church where sexual abuse doesn't occur and everyone has the same beliefs.

Regards

Duckman

PS Yes - Duckman's a Catholic, who was raised Uniting, by an Anglican mother and a Presybterian father!!! I also attended Catholic boys boarding school for 5 years - without any abuse (shock horror) - and yes I was give the "jack" (leather strap) for discipline.

 

[bunyip]

Quote.
You mentioned 4 people that you know personally who have either suffered abuse at the hands of the Catholic church or have been disillusioned with the Church's teachings. To balance your argument, what about all the people you know who are active Church members, who have never been abused a member of the Church and have received much support, and enrichment from their involvement?

Reply.
What about them? If they're happy with their religion then they should stick with it. If they're disenchanted with their religion because they don't agree with its teachings, or because they're disgusted with the level of physical and/or sexual abuse that is/was directed at themselves or others, then they should change to a religion that's more to their liking.
It's not a question of how many people are happy with their religion vs how many people are dissatisfied. It's a question of why don't they leave that religion if they disagree with it's teachings or its behaviour.

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Quote.
The pace of change in the world today is greater than at any other time in history. It is a challenge for any organisation to keep relevant and up to date. Just as any organisation has disgruntled members, so does the Church. Just as all organisations have sexual predators, so does the Church.

Reply.
If they're disgruntled they should leave. None of these religions is the be all and end all. All Christian religions have similar objectives.......worship of God in an environment of social interaction with like-minded people. One religion can cater to these needs and objectives just as well as the next one.

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Quote.
Your advice displays a lack of understanding of the belief and faith that people place in their religion. You make it sound like a visit to a different coffee shop. Keep tasting testing until you find the right ambience. It is just not that simple.

Reply.
I can understand how people have belief and faith in their religion if it lives up to their expectations. What I don't understand is how they can continue with their belief and faith in that religion, and how they can continue supporting it, once they consider its teachings wrong or irrelevant, or its behaviour cruel, immoral and disgusting.
You say it's not that simple to swap from one religion to another. But why isn't it? That's what I'm asking. It should be. For a thinking person it should be as simple as saying "OK, my religion claims to uphold Christian values and beliefs, but in reality, behind the facade, exactly the opposite behaviour is commonplace. This religion is no longer worthy of the faith and belief I once had in it, therefore I'll dump it and attempt to find one that's more to my liking.

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Quote.
Can you please tell us what religion your wife has joined because I'm sure everyone would like to attend the church where sexual abuse doesn't occur and everyone has the same beliefs.

Reply.
Did I say my wife has joined another religion? She hasn't. She tried out a few but in the end reached the conclusion that being a decent person in everyday life is far more important than belonging to some religious organisation. Her view is that God will evaluate people on the basis of their character and integrity, rather than on whether or not they belong to a religion.

Bunyip

 

[2020hindsight]

When i see churchgoers, I am reminded of an old quote, "shame people don't spend as much time with the concept of "lead us not into tempation" as they do with "forgive us our tresspasses".

1. Am I religious ? no, but I believe in honesty more than a lot of people I know who do consider themselves religious.
2. Are other people entitled to be religious? of course, as long as they dont cause problems for the rest of the world. Mutual tolerance.
3. Do they gain strength from religion? Sure they do. It was proven by the Koreans in the 50's that the most religious were the hardest to brainwash - and by the way these were Muslims.
4. Do we have to be tolerant with people of other beliefs? no choice mate - you're wasting your breath trying to convert them.
5. What to do with extremists? shoot em. PS This is meant to be a joke - just in case anyone needs it being explained - one never knows with this topic Take the Crusaders for instance - shame they didnt spend more time on "winning the hearts and minds" and less on cutting off heads.

5. Tomorrow's topic ... Politics
6. Next day ... Mothers in law and other extremists

 

[nizar]

kennas juz wondering what pic is that next to your username?
seems like a nice island...

 

[weird]

Found this which may be interesting to some reading the above comments,

WERE HITLER AND MUSSOLINI CATHOLIC?

http://home.nyc.rr.com/mysticalrose/object5.html

 

[Sean K]

kennas juz wondering what pic is that next to your username?
seems like a nice island...

Hi Nizar, It's just off the forum, somewhere on the avatar list. Wish I was there now, wherever it is....

 

[Wysiwyg]

When I die, thinking/perception will stop and all accumulated memories/belief will end too.It is thinking that makes hooman unnatural.

 

[retroaugogo]

The trouble with some of us is that we have been inoculated with small does of Christianity which keep us from catching the real thing. – Leslie Dixon Weatherhead