Reinvigorate ASF as a stock forum

[barney]

A chicken and egg problem.

but if we can encourage those posting in GC to divert their time and effort then that ought to achieve a similar result.

Good thoughts Smurph ……. I agree that the last thing ASF needs is to banish the General Threads …. I think a simple layout change where the General posts are not so front and centre with Trade based posts would help regain more focus on the Trading threads by natural selection.

 

[Joe Blow]

So we need more posts, stock posts or at least something about investing, on ASF in order to fix the empty room = empty room problem. Using the nightclub strategy, well we can't really just dump the crowd out of General Chat into the Stock Forum by playing crap music and turning on the ugly lights whilst having only one possible exit which just happens to lead right where we want them to end up, that's not going to work in this situation, but if we can encourage those posting in GC to divert their time and effort then that ought to achieve a similar result.

Yep, and that is exactly what I've been trying to encourage people to do for quite some time now. Not to stop posting in General Chat entirely, but to understand that ASF is a stock market forum first and that the General Chat forum is just one small part of that, a part which was intended to round out the community so forum members had a place where they could get away from the market and get to know each other better and chat about topics unrelated to stocks, trading and investing.

The balance needs to be restored as a matter of necessity. I'm not doing this to irritate people, I'm doing this because I have to. There is no alternative. So rather than shutting down General Chat entirely I'm asking people to please lend a hand and start posting more often in threads in forums other than General Chat. I'm not trying to piss in people's cornflakes, I'm merely asking for help.

That's me! I visit every day and read a bunch but I have difficulty posting. Mainly because I don't know what to discuss and my knowledge on stocks/shares et al is limited. I don't even read the "General" section - didn't like the look of that ages ago when I did a read-through. I like discussions on various stocks but there isn't a lot there that I can make comments on. That could be because of my lack of knowledge too.

If you follow any stocks and notice any price sensitive announcements of interest, or some unusual price action, then post about it in those threads. It is not necessary to post analysis. Information can be just as useful as analysis.

As to the website design, I have always felt that the Stocks 0-H, I-P, Q-Z forums are.. well they just don't seem right the way it's setup. I have tried to think of a better idea a few times but haven't come up with anything worthwhile as yet. Btw, have you noticed that SYA Sayona Mining is in Stocks 0-H? (Most probably had a name change at some point I guess)

I have now moved the SYA thread into the correct forum. Thanks for letting me know. With regards to the way the stock threads are organised, I'm of the same mind. It seems as though there could be a better way to do it, but I just haven't figured out what that is yet.

 

[Ann]

G'day All, I almost never look at General Chat even though it is posted on the list of 'recent posts'. I think the only time was recently when I added some pictures to a thread of Vintage propaganda adverts. I am dyslexic so reading is not my first choice activity. However I am guessing this forum is watched by a lot who really enjoy reading General Chat. There are 427 people sitting on this site as I write this, not bad for a Monday morning, I should have thought they must be looking or reading something. Joe can see what they are looking at. They probably jump on most of the new posts and read them. I think Joe is doing very well to have 100 regular posters. I have found the people who post here make intelligent comments. I can't speak for GC of course.

For a very short time I ran a Gold Forum called Hardmoney with Zed/Z/Zorro. It had a number of the eccentrics who got banned from the original Kitco wild west forum after it got revamped and began being run by Suuuuper Mod. One of the features of the site was members were able to change the look of the skin of the forum to suit their tastes. I have a feeling people had to be signed in to see their choice of skin otherwise they just saw the default. Maybe Joe could have a feature like that in order to make people sign in. Still probably won't get them to post though.

I have to hang my head in shame when you see how long I have been here and how few posts I have made. As my focus is on charting and as it can take me some hours to draw a chart I rarely have the time to devote to lots of charts. Then after I put up a chart I can often get some lengthy discussion from the fundamentalists, True Believers or Experts telling me I am wrong or charts are simply B/S. That's fine, I don't mind that. Fundamentalists write a lot and have few paragraphs. As someone with Dyslexia I can tell you I end up having no idea what they are saying and it becomes a pointless exercise, so I tend to hit ASF with a chart and then bugger off!

I will try to mend my ways Joe and start posting more.

I know! I will start another thread in GC about Climate Change, how cool would that be?

 

[basilio]

I think the challenging part of having more posts in the stock section is "What does one say " ?

If one was a day trader or a stock ramper then certainly creating or encouraging all sorts of rumours around penny stocks is great. But that is verbotem and Joe is (very rightly) quick to ensure that stock pumping is minimal.

The trouble is that the quick money does come from questionable SP movements in penny dreadfuls. Truthfully most of these companies seem to exist for the benefit of teh directors, stock promoters and rampers. Any serious investors seem to lose their shirts.

Also it seems that the market is splitting between a core of big index companies that continue to attract institutional support and the bulk of the market that is not going anywhere. I'm not sure how this issue (if it is correct) is addressed.

Joes comment about the value of a constructive, friendly atmosphere in the forums seems spot on. It is better to be in a more welcoming environment than a hostile one. I noticed that Tisme has taken a break perhaps as a response to the criticism of some of his posts.

I don't think that is the answer. From memory when Tisme first joined ASF I was impressed with his sharpness and, in my view, astute comments. My view changed but only because of the content and tone of his posts. It can always change again.

A thought. Would Joe consider asking 15-25 - X current or previous posters who demonstrated good understandings of the market to be regular posters and leaders in stock discussions ? In a sense it would give formal recognition to the people who effectively create the conversations around the best value stocks and ways to invest with a better chance of a return. There is no direct money obviously but in fact if people are capable of demonstrating good research and astute understandings regarding stock plays the encouragement of other investors could improve the SP.

 

[systematic]

Some of the comments that follow I've said before when Joe has asked in other threads (or possibly earlier in this thread), but one thought (3rd to 5th paragraphs) I've probably not thought to mention.

Remember that it's not just the general chat that has driven a few away. On the GC; I've said before I barely venture there. I learned early on that I would come to dislike several of you after reading some illogical and unintelligent drivel on certain topics, and so I made myself stay away. Just so that I could still like you in the stock forums

Aside from general chat...I've seen a few become dormant after threads get derailed. I think this has largely gone away (my impression) in more recent times - thankfully! But it was alive and well in the past. Someone would start a topic based around some fundamental analysis and some idiot would chime in something completely irrelevant, like, 'just look at the chart' or whatever. They obviously weren't interested in the thread's original topic, yet they chose to post instead of move on! That made me so mad. And, I know others that got mad enough to leave, at the point they'd had enough. I've always considered the opening post of a thread to be the guiding light of that thread. If you want to talk about something completely different - start a new thread.

Again - thankfully I don't think that's happening anywhere near as much these days, but it certainly did and the impact it had is possibly underestimated. Someone from this forum actually started a new, completely private forum (I was on the invite list, and accepted) and the motive behind them starting it was exactly the reasons I mention above.

Given that it doesn't seem to be a trait of the forum at the moment - let's not take it for granted and be vigilant to avoid that kind of trait appearing in the future.

Apart from that, I agree with what I and other have already mentioned as challenges that ASF faces.

• I'm a forum person (which probably dates me) but I've seen large forums in other topics I'm interested in die out ('health' and 'business' being the broad categories). Have people gone to Facebook groups? I don't know. In some cases, yes. So, the million dollar question is, what does Joe/ASF do about that? The options are - you let it die out, you try and keep it alive (Joe's current approach) or you try and transition to something else by looking at what is proving popular and move in that direction. The second option (keeping it alive) obviously still requires a change in approach - because, 'if you keep doing what you've been doing, you'll keep getting what you've been getting'. More on that in the 3rd bullet point
• The stock market itself is a topic that is not exactly flavour of the month - at least not to the masses. That's a generalism that definitely has some truth. We all know that investors went away after '08 and we haven't exactly had a bubble since then to get everyone excited again. Having said that - there is a plethora of stock market information out there, and sites that do well. People are always looking for information. What does ASF offer? Discussion. A sense of community (when it's at its best). But what do people want? Maybe they want news. Maybe they want educators. Maybe they want stock data. I don't know. If I was treating it like a business, that's what I'd be looking at. Sorry Joe - but that one's your job
• Back to 'forums don't seem to be working'. That's not entirely true, of course. But like anything and everything in business, it's about differentiation, finding your niche etc. There are forums (even in the investing/stock market space) that charge for membership. They do that by fulfilling the need of a niche/sub-niche - same as any business. But that too is a business direction question for Joe; however if members are craving something in particular (e.g. a chartist only forum, a value investors forum, a day trading or Australian FX traders etc etc), they should let Joe know.
• Random ideas: pay people (or let them have the ad rev) for articles on the site (seeking alpha style) to generate content. Partner up with or feature various product sellers who'd trade the content for the exposure (e.g. get an SMSF to do a webinar). Become a source of some unique angle of stock market data. Provide a means for people to post / track portfolios and become heroes (like those sites that track traders). Become a contest site that rivals the ASX game with frequent contests and various sponsored prizes. Any of those could either become a feature of the current site OR transition the site from forums to something else.

Most of these types of ideas are about getting bigger. But again, another way to go is the other direction and go smaller. Especially if you can't compete with the big players in your space (I'm assuming that's Hot Copper). But to go smaller, ad rev probably isn't going to support the site and so a different angle pursued.


I realise that my entire post is, like most, lacking any real answers for Joe and the site's direction for the future. But that's all I've got.

 

[satanoperca]

A simple solution that allows Recent Posts to be filtered. If you want to see threads in general chat, just check the box, if not, only share related topics are shown.

 

[SirRumpole]

I don't think that is the answer. From memory when Tisme first joined ASF I was impressed with his sharpness and, in my view, astute comments. My view changed but only because of the content and tone of his posts. It can always change again.

Told you you would miss him.

 

[satanoperca]

Told you you would miss him.

You might Sir, but many will not, this is a share and investment forum, not a Tisme forum.
He or she or may heshe has lots of energy/smart and an incredible grasp of the english language, let them put it to good use and not take a forum off course.

 

[Darc Knight]

Told you you would miss him.

Are they both Single?

@basilio

@Tisme

<runs away>

 

[Joe Blow]

Aside from general chat...I've seen a few become dormant after threads get derailed. I think this has largely gone away (my impression) in more recent times - thankfully! But it was alive and well in the past. Someone would start a topic based around some fundamental analysis and some idiot would chime in something completely irrelevant, like, 'just look at the chart' or whatever. They obviously weren't interested in the thread's original topic, yet they chose to post instead of move on! That made me so mad. And, I know others that got mad enough to leave, at the point they'd had enough. I've always considered the opening post of a thread to be the guiding light of that thread. If you want to talk about something completely different - start a new thread.

Agree. I call this thread spoiling and I think it causes a lot of damage to serious discussions. There is nothing wrong with respectfully disagreeing, or having an alternative viewpoint and wanting to put it out there. However, there is something wrong in shouting others down or deliberately derailing threads.

Given that it doesn't seem to be a trait of the forum at the moment - let's not take it for granted and be vigilant to avoid that kind of trait appearing in the future.

I intend to do my best to keep a lid on this type of behaviour in future.

Apart from that, I agree with what I and other have already mentioned as challenges that ASF faces.

• I'm a forum person (which probably dates me) but I've seen large forums in other topics I'm interested in die out ('health' and 'business' being the broad categories). Have people gone to Facebook groups? I don't know. In some cases, yes. So, the million dollar question is, what does Joe/ASF do about that? The options are - you let it die out, you try and keep it alive (Joe's current approach) or you try and transition to something else by looking at what is proving popular and move in that direction. The second option (keeping it alive) obviously still requires a change in approach - because, 'if you keep doing what you've been doing, you'll keep getting what you've been getting'.

To satisfy my curiosity I joined a half a dozen ASX Facebook Groups and made the following observations:

• Comments are mostly one or two sentences and 75% of the content is ramping.
• There is no sense of the content being organised or searchable.
• Many groups are inactive.
  
• The groups that are active are filled with spam.
• The active groups are very political with lots of sniping and petty attacks on others.
  
• As a result of the sniping and highly political atmosphere, splinter groups end up leaving and starting their own groups, most of which soon become inactive.

They may work for some, but not me. I've been spending less and less time at Facebook and I prefer the forum format.

I'm obviously for option #2, keeping it alive. I'm still in the process of developing a strategy that includes having General Chat content filtered out by default but allowing people to opt in and out at will, focusing on fostering a positive, constructive atmosphere rather than a toxic atmosphere, and a website rework in early-mid 2019 that implements new functionality that improves site layout, navigation, and content organisation. New features too. More on that later.

The stock market itself is a topic that is not exactly flavour of the month - at least not to the masses. That's a generalism that definitely has some truth. We all know that investors went away after '08 and we haven't exactly had a bubble since then to get everyone excited again. Having said that - there is a plethora of stock market information out there, and sites that do well. People are always looking for information. What does ASF offer? Discussion. A sense of community (when it's at its best). But what do people want? Maybe they want news. Maybe they want educators. Maybe they want stock data. I don't know. If I was treating it like a business, that's what I'd be looking at. Sorry Joe - but that one's your job

My experience is that everyone wants something different. Or at least that's how it seems. I'm big on discussion and community but it is clear that space is evolving. Forum software is evolving too in response but it's happening at a slower pace, or at least it has until now. Facebook Groups as previously mentioned has had an impact but I'm not convinced that it works better than forums.

As for content, I'm happy to hear suggestions. I don't know either.

• Back to 'forums don't seem to be working'. That's not entirely true, of course. But like anything and everything in business, it's about differentiation, finding your niche etc. There are forums (even in the investing/stock market space) that charge for membership. They do that by fulfilling the need of a niche/sub-niche - same as any business. But that too is a business direction question for Joe; however if members are craving something in particular (e.g. a chartist only forum, a value investors forum, a day trading or Australian FX traders etc etc), they should let Joe know.
• Random ideas: pay people (or let them have the ad rev) for articles on the site (seeking alpha style) to generate content. Partner up with or feature various product sellers who'd trade the content for the exposure (e.g. get an SMSF to do a webinar). Become a source of some unique angle of stock market data. Provide a means for people to post / track portfolios and become heroes (like those sites that track traders). Become a contest site that rivals the ASX game with frequent contests and various sponsored prizes. Any of those could either become a feature of the current site OR transition the site from forums to something else.

Too many ideas there to respond to individually, but some great food for thought. Thanks for your thoughts. If anyone would like to second any ideas, please do so. It's hard for me to detect any sort of consensus about what features/content people would like to see. Don't be afraid to speak up and let me know.

Most of these types of ideas are about getting bigger. But again, another way to go is the other direction and go smaller. Especially if you can't compete with the big players in your space (I'm assuming that's Hot Copper). But to go smaller, ad rev probably isn't going to support the site and so a different angle pursued.

I'd like to be a little bigger than we are now, but not too much so. I'd be happy with the size we were about ten years ago. Active, constructive, friendly, content heavy. That would be enough for me.

I realise that my entire post is, like most, lacking any real answers for Joe and the site's direction for the future. But that's all I've got.

Thanks for the feedback.

 

[luutzu]

Told you you would miss him.

No Yin without Yang.

 

[SirRumpole]

If anyone would like to second any ideas, please do so. It's hard for me to detect any sort of consensus about what features/content people would like to see. Don't be afraid to speak up and let me know.

Would it be possible to automatically trawl other news feeds searching for financial information that may be relevant and post this on a news page ?

I don't know how you would go with copyright , but once it's in the public domain its ok isn't it ?

That would give a one stop go to page instead of people having to do the trawling themselves and would generate a lot of traffic I reckon.

 

[Joe Blow]

Would it be possible to automatically trawl other news feeds searching for financial information that may be relevant and post this on a news page ?

I don't know how you would go with copyright , but once it's in the public domain its ok isn't it ?

That would give a one stop go to page instead of people having to do the trawling themselves and would generate a lot of traffic I reckon.

I think a page devoted to financial news from different sources each with a different focus would be a good idea. As you say, it would all have to be in the public domain and copyright free.

 

[systematic]

I think a page devoted to financial news from different sources each with a different focus would be a good idea. As you say, it would all have to be in the public domain and copyright free.

Snippets with links out (opening in a new tab, of course) comes to mind.

The value could come from the way it's organised (e.g. perhaps the option for the user to sort the news feed chronologically or by A-Z stock ticker so they can find the stock they want the latest news on)

 

[satanoperca]

Guys and Girls, the question is not whether to add in more functionality into the site, the question is, is general chat distracting from the other threads that are related to stocks, shares and investments and thus discouraging people from visiting and posting that only want to discuss the primary purpose of the forum.

 

[systematic]

Guys and Girls, the question is not whether to add in more functionality into the site, the question is, is general chat distracting from the other threads that are related to stocks, shares and investments and thus discouraging people from visiting and posting that only want to discuss the primary purpose of the forum.

Actually, the question (according to thread title) is how to reinvigorate ASF as a stock forum, which leaves it pretty open to ideas, I would have thought.
But yes, the 'general chat' topic is certainly shaping to be an important part of that discussion.

 

[satanoperca]

While ideas are great, sometimes to make changes, it is the lowest hanging fruit that can give best bang for buck.
So, would a filter on the "Recent" button to filter out or in GC to be of some benefit?

 

[systematic]

Incidentally, I just checked the first post to this thread - and read the initial couple of replies - and it's quite eye opening!

The original post is 8 years old...and the poster (nioka) claims that the issue was already a couple years old then! The follow up comments seem to confirm that.

So here we are...it looks like we're talking about what seems to be a 10 year old issue on this forum. Wow!

Is it a case of what I said earlier - 'if you keep doing what you've been doing, you'll keep getting what you've been getting?

 

[satanoperca]

You maybe correct, but that does not help or provide part of a solution to the problem. Easy to look back, look forward, what are some simple measures Joe can do that can help build/rebuild the community at ASF.

 

[SirRumpole]

Guys and Girls, the question is not whether to add in more functionality into the site, the question is, is general chat distracting from the other threads that are related to stocks, shares and investments and thus discouraging people from visiting and posting that only want to discuss the primary purpose of the forum.

I think we have been through this before, but once again:-

General Chat can be hidden by any user and somewhere on this thread tells you how to do it. Once you do that it doesn't appear in the Recent posts lists.

In addition it could be a sub-forum under Members Only so that guests don't see it by default.

Having said that, in addition to some of the febrile threads in GC (which in any case are good for letting off steam) there are many of interest to the investment community as well as for getting an idea how "real stuff" works on the ground and people's real thoughts without the PC stuff.

Smurf's posts in the Energy thread are classics and if it wasn't for GC we would never have got this very useful information.

So don't knock GC offhand. The real world doesn't just consist of trading bits of paper.