QANTAS Grounds all Flights

todster · 1 November 2011

Calliope said:
Those posters on this thread who said they wouldn't pay Joyce more than a baggage handler have been quiet lately. Washing the egg off their faces I suppose. Joyce certainly outsmarted Gillard and her union buddies.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...led-labors-bluff/story-e6frgd0x-1226181922733

Bit like you with all the rubbish you wrote about the bias of FWA

nulla nulla · 1 November 2011

Calliope said:
Those posters on this thread who said they wouldn't pay Joyce more than a baggage handler have been quiet lately. Washing the egg off their faces I suppose.

If he was a chook, I wouldn't waste my feed on him.

Joyce certainly outsmarted Gillard and her union buddies.

This must be a bit of twisted Irish logic that I can't follow:

Nothing has changed in respect of the log of claims;
The Airline has been ordered back into the air;
Joyce still has to deal with the Qantas Sales Act and its' requirements before he can take Qantas offshore; and
Joyce now has the government offside and risks Qantas loosing significant Government business and the Government opening up domestic and international routes in competition to qantas.

I mentioned before, where is Corrigan these days, similarly you can also ask where are Sol Trujillo and his mate Phil Burgess (we know the outcome of their efforts with Telstra taking on governments). Now you can add Alan Joyce to the list of Company Directors that will have to live with the outcome of getting offside with an Australian Government.

When Qantas can demonstrate on their bottom line that this was a successful strategy I will happily revise my position. Until then I will continue to maintain that he has made a significant and enduring mistake.

nulla nulla · 1 November 2011

Calliope said:
It's a pity we can't have Asian stewardesses on Qantas planes in Australia. If Cathay and Singapore Airlines are anything to go by they run rings around our old dogs, in both appearance and service. They are also friendlier.

I'm surprised Joe hasn't removed this post, totally inappropriate: sexism and age discrimination, irrelevent to the thread.

The days of Reg Ansett's compulsory retirement of female flight attendants retiring at age 30 (his "old boilers" slag-off) or once they married no longer apply. Australia has a laws now against age and sex discrimination in the workplace.

moXJO · 1 November 2011

nulla nulla said:
If he was a chook, I wouldn't waste my feed on him.

This must be a bit of twisted Irish logic that I can't follow:

Nothing has changed in respect of the log of claims;
The Airline has been ordered back into the air;
Joyce still has to deal with the Qantas Sales Act and its' requirements before he can take Qantas offshore; and
Joyce now has the government offside and risks Qantas loosing significant Government business and the Government opening up domestic and international routes in competition to qantas.

I mentioned before, where is Corrigan these days, similarly you can also ask where are Sol Trujillo and his mate Phil Burgess (we know the outcome of their efforts with Telstra taking on governments). Now you can add Alan Joyce to the list of Company Directors that will have to live with the outcome of getting offside with an Australian Government.

When Qantas can demonstrate on their bottom line that this was a successful strategy I will happily revise my position. Until then I will continue to maintain that he has made a significant and enduring mistake.

Actually he has opened a whole can of worms in regards to FWA, Unions and Labors shoddy IR laws. Business will begin to apply pressure imo. And it won’t take much to make the government look like even bigger idiots then they already are. Agree that labor is the petty kind and will make life hard for Qantas management and shareholders.
Corrigan is running a stevedoring logistics and port management service and still taking it to the unions, what’s your point?

Unions seem to want to run the business receive the benefits but not pay the costs. BlueScope was overly union friendly which helped speed it to the position it is today. IR laws has swung back too far the wrong way and will only hurt the country.

Calliope · 1 November 2011

nulla nulla said:
When Qantas can demonstrate on their bottom line that this was a successful strategy I will happily revise my position. Until then I will continue to maintain that he has made a significant and enduring mistake.

I would expect nothing else from you with your union bias.

I'm surprised Joe hasn't removed this post, totally inappropriate: sexism and age discrimination, irrelevent to the thread.

You forgot about racist.

WaveSurfer · 1 November 2011

Boggo said:
Really not sure why everyone is having problems getting back to Australia.

All they need to do is get to Indonesia and catch the Christmas Island ferry service, direct service, it runs 24 hrs a day everyday and when you get to your destination customs come to you and you also get free accommodation and meals.

Quit yer bitchin

Classic!!

I still can't get past the signs employees were holding in their protest...

"TWU Proud and Powerful"

FFS, are you people daft or what? Please enlighten me as to what the hell this is supposed to mean? Pompous tossers. With that sort of attitude, they deserve no job if you ask me.

startrader · 1 November 2011

nulla nulla said:
If he was a chook, I wouldn't waste my feed on him.

This must be a bit of twisted Irish logic that I can't follow:

Nothing has changed in respect of the log of claims;
The Airline has been ordered back into the air;
Joyce still has to deal with the Qantas Sales Act and its' requirements before he can take Qantas offshore; and
Joyce now has the government offside and risks Qantas loosing significant Government business and the Government opening up domestic and international routes in competition to qantas.

I mentioned before, where is Corrigan these days, similarly you can also ask where are Sol Trujillo and his mate Phil Burgess (we know the outcome of their efforts with Telstra taking on governments). Now you can add Alan Joyce to the list of Company Directors that will have to live with the outcome of getting offside with an Australian Government.

When Qantas can demonstrate on their bottom line that this was a successful strategy I will happily revise my position. Until then I will continue to maintain that he has made a significant and enduring mistake.

Well said Nulla. Qantas management not only has got the government offside but I think has irreparably damaged the brand domestically and overseas.

nulla nulla · 1 November 2011

Calliope said:
I would expect nothing else from you with your union bias.

My perspective in this instance is purely commercial. I don't consider the unions do any thing for their cause with the rallies and banner waving at the airports. They need to play down their banner waving and focus more on presentation of their arguments at the negotiation table and make more effective use of media spin like Qantas does.

However I do consider Qantas has done more long term damage to their brand by shutting down the fleet than the unions have with their infrequent rolling stopages.

You forgot about racist.

Humble apologies for this oversight, though I thought you were complimenting the Thai stewardesses rather than denigrating them.

nulla nulla · 1 November 2011

moXJO said:
Corrigan is running a stevedoring logistics and port management service and still taking it to the unions, what’s your point?

I thought he had retired to Italy? What Australian Company is he running?

Julia · 1 November 2011

nulla nulla said:
When Qantas can demonstrate on their bottom line that this was a successful strategy I will happily revise my position. Until then I will continue to maintain that he has made a significant and enduring mistake.

So how do you think he should have resolved the matter? Given the unions what they were asking for?
Wiped the strategy of making QANTAS profitable by opening up Asia opportunities?
Holding onto old aircraft instead of acquiring more modern versions which require less servicing and therefore fewer maintenance hours?

sptrawler · 1 November 2011

Julia said:
So how do you think he should have resolved the matter? Given the unions what they were asking for?
Wiped the strategy of making QANTAS profitable by opening up Asia opportunities?
Holding onto old aircraft instead of acquiring more modern versions which require less servicing and therefore fewer maintenance hours?

I flew out of Perth last week on Qantas, the check in, affixing the luggage tags and putting the luggage on the transfer is all done by the passenger.
The transfer of the luggage to the plane seems to be the only function not carried out by the passenger. So therefore I doubt it will be long before this is an automatic function. I think the baggage handlers are an endangered species and their behaviour will only accelerate their demise.
Joyce did the appropriate thing, disrupt passengers for 2 - 3 days and resolve the issues. The way it was going no one would have booked a flight wth them for fear of missing a connection or appointment.

startrader · 1 November 2011

Julia said:
So how do you think he should have resolved the matter? Given the unions what they were asking for?
Wiped the strategy of making QANTAS profitable by opening up Asia opportunities?
Holding onto old aircraft instead of acquiring more modern versions which require less servicing and therefore fewer maintenance hours?

Qantas IS profitable - I wouldn't call making half a billion dollars last year (in spite of fuel increases, floods, the Japanese earthquake and volcanic ash fallout) unprofitable. There has also been a lot of creative accounting going on. Qantas is an integrated business and it depends on where you apportion the costs. One of the things they have been doing is using Qantas infrastructure to subside Jetstar.

Apparently management and the workers were close to an agreement last week and suddenly negotiations were cancelled and management's offers were withdrawn.

Joyce's plan to start a new airline in Asia I find bizarre - good luck with that competing against the Asians in Asia.

moXJO · 1 November 2011

nulla nulla said:
I thought he had retired to Italy? What Australian Company is he running?

Qube Logistics from memory. I think it has only recently started up.
Which just goes to show you can't keep an evil union bashing bastard down. I think he started a war straight away again with the unions as well. Old habits die hard

Smurf1976 · 1 November 2011

Calliope said:
Those posters on this thread who said they wouldn't pay Joyce more than a baggage handler have been quiet lately. Washing the egg off their faces I suppose. Joyce certainly outsmarted Gillard and her union buddies.

Let's see what the situation is a few months from now, then we'll see how smart Joyce really is.

Halting a fight with the unions doesn't mean that Qantas suddenly has a fleet of modern aircraft or that staff are actually on side with the company. One way or another, those twin problems are virtually certain to cause problems for Qantas going forward - the only questions being what and when.

Compare that to Virgin which appears to have staff reasoanbly on side with the company and comparatively few problems with their planes. Relative to Qantas, that is a position of strength which enables management to focus on growing the business rather than spending their days "putting out fires" with unions and mechanical problems.

Fix those underlying problems at Qantas and then I'll give him the credit he will truly deserve. At the moment however, they have simply been ignored just as they have been for the past few years, the very situation which lead to trouble in the first place.

Eager · 1 November 2011

sptrawler said:
I just watched the pilots association rep on lateline. He had a lot of trouble answering pretty basic questions to justify the pilots position.
I hope he does a better job in his presentation to an impartial umpire.

Didn't see it, but I saw Shorten just before him and thought he performed well. He raised some salient points - if a company wants to introduce a cultural change to the workforce which is their prerogative, why wait until the end of the EBA to put it on the table? He also questioned Joyce's leadership skills - he might be a manager, but definitely not a leader - and I think Qantas sorely needs one now.

Joyce reminds me a bit of Captain Binghamton.

sptrawler said:
By the way I never have nor never will have airline shares in my portfolio.

I don't either, but REX is appealing for its yield...I cast my eye over them now and then.

JTLP · 1 November 2011

Eager said:
Didn't see it, but I saw Shorten just before him and thought he performed well. He raised some salient points - if a company wants to introduce a cultural change to the workforce which is their prerogative, why wait until the end of the EBA to put it on the table? He also questioned Joyce's leadership skills - he might be a manager, but definitely not a leader - and I think Qantas sorely needs one now.

Joyce reminds me a bit of Captain Binghamton.

I don't either, but REX is appealing for its yield...I cast my eye over them now and then.

LOL Shorten performed well? The other bloke must have performed horribly because Shorten is one of the biggest nuffs out there.

And to talk about leadership? Bigger LOL. His own party is in shambles and he wants to talk leadership.

I'll tell you what needs to and I sincerely hope happens:

Big Tony wins the next election. Attempts to crush carbon tax. Doesn't happen so calls double dissolution. Once he wins this crushes carbon tax. Then steps up and goes "P.S WELCOME BACK WORKCHOICES!!!".

Then all these union scumbags can choke and Australia will be a more prosperous society.

That. Is. All

Smurf1976 · 1 November 2011

Qantas plans to cut fares...

Aviation and brand experts say the airline now has a huge job to restore confidence in its brand...

"I think Qantas will have to tread very carefully - not just in the coming months but in the coming years - to regain lost ground in terms of its reputation," he said.

http://www.theage.com.au/travel/tra...ble-frequent-flyer-points-20111101-1mthw.html

That's basically another way of saying these antics will cost them a fortune in lost revenue for years to come, thus necessitating further cost cuts and effectively transforming Qantas into a discount carrier.

Now, if the main domestic rival has dumped the low cost / low fare model because it wasn't sufficiently profitable then it seems rather odd to me that Qantas would choose to go down this path.

They've won the battle but they sure haven't won the war.

IFocus · 1 November 2011

Qantas board trash the brand name, Qantas becomes just a holding company, we no longer have a national carrier, Joyce turns another airline into cattle class and gets a massive payout.

More Oz jobs move off shore with the skill set that goes with it Qantas crashes its 1st plane.

The rot set in when they moved older aircraft into Qantas and move Jetstar costs over that they could get away with.

Then started the conversation that its the unions fault

Australian icon going down the tubes thanks to a poison leprechaun and Rio head kicker.

Abbott cheers loudly with his ASF supporter group.

McLovin · 1 November 2011

Smurf1976 said:
Now, if the main domestic rival has dumped the low cost / low fare model because it wasn't sufficiently profitable then it seems rather odd to me that Qantas would choose to go down this path.

Virgin ditched the low cost model because they felt that they were being squeezed from both sides by Qantas (on the premium side by Qantas mainline and on the discount side by Jetstar). Clearly the success of Jetstar is proof the low cost model works extremely well.

The people on TV saying how they will never fly Qantas again are once a year flyers probably on the cheapest ticket they could find. They will continue to be once a year flyers on the cheapest ticket they can find and if that means flying Qantas then they'll be flying Qantas. All that needs to be done is to dangle a few cheap tickets in front of them.

Boggo · 1 November 2011

IFocus said:
Qantas becomes just a holding company, we no longer have a national carrier, Joyce turns another airline into cattle class and gets a massive payout.

That process started long before Joyce, in 2004 actually with Dixon an co, who by the way was getting paid double what Joyce is getting paid !

Worth reading...
http://ozhouse.org/2011/10/30/qantas-finally-the-truth-is-coming-out/

QANTAS Grounds all Flights

todster

nulla nulla

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nulla nulla

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moXJO

menace to society

Calliope

WaveSurfer

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startrader

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Julia

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sptrawler

startrader

moXJO

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Smurf1976

Eager

JTLP

Smurf1976

IFocus

You are arguing with a Galah

McLovin

Boggo

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