QANTAS Grounds all Flights

joea · 3 November 2011

It is apparent that many people want to concentrate on the lockout.
Wayne Swan is one of the biggest contributors to this. He can not let it go because it takes the gloss off an under performing government.

The government followed the script to the letter.
The lockout was never meant to happen. It didn't.

It was a simple IR move by Joyce. The first step to their new business plan was successful.
I for one give credit to the man, his board and his shareholders.

But then Australian's might not see things as I do.
A successful business with integrity generally has a good relationship with its people.
From there the rest of the bits just fall into place.
joea

Julia · 3 November 2011

Boggo said:
Another grey area is that of how Asian flight attendants come through Darwin and crew on internal Aust flights down the east coast to Melb etc and then do the reverse the next day.
Similarly there are NZ crews that do the same on QAN aircraft, none of these people have Aust work visas etc.
Shouldn't the immigration dept be all over this practice ?

Do Australian crew, based here, have visas for all the places they fly to or overnight at?
I'd imagine the relevant fact would be where they are based.

Boggo · 4 November 2011

Julia said:
Do Australian crew, based here, have visas for all the places they fly to or overnight at?
I'd imagine the relevant fact would be where they are based.

Flying to and from international cities is different to flying within the country which is what for example QF is doing with Jetstar via Darwin, ie, employ them in Asia and then have them crew flights via Cairns etc all the way down to Melb and back carrying Australian domestic passengers.

All of this came up in the Senator Xenophon senate inquiry which is now published and teetering on the edge of Minister Albanese's desk just over his rubbish bin, all he needs now if for Xenophon to get distracted with pokies legislation and we have makings of another episode of 'Yes Minister' when the desk gets bumped.

The media and most commentator's (some on here too) have no idea of what all of this is really about.

This is just a very basic summary of just one aspect of it, you would probably take the train if you knew some of what is really happening...
http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/w...ghts-bill-more-humble-than-revolutionary.html

and here...
http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2011/s3279602.htm

sptrawler · 4 November 2011

Can someone tell me who is going to champion the cause for the haulpack drivers who are loosing their jobs.
Rio Tinto is buying 150 remote controlled driverless haulpacs, the existing drivers are bread winners, fathers, husbands whose jobs aren't going overseas they are lost for ever.

startrader · 4 November 2011

Boggo said:
Flying to and from international cities is different to flying within the country which is what for example QF is doing with Jetstar via Darwin, ie, employ them in Asia and then have them crew flights via Cairns etc all the way down to Melb and back carrying Australian domestic passengers.

All of this came up in the Senator Xenophon senate inquiry which is now published and teetering on the edge of Minister Albanese's desk just over his rubbish bin, all he needs now if for Xenophon to get distracted with pokies legislation and we have makings of another episode of 'Yes Minister' when the desk gets bumped.

The media and most commentator's (some on here too) have no idea of what all of this is really about.

This is just a very basic summary of just one aspect of it, you would probably take the train if you knew some of what is really happening...
http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/w...ghts-bill-more-humble-than-revolutionary.html

and here...
http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2011/s3279602.htm

Yes Boggo,

I'm shocked at how people are cheering on Joyce and the Qantas board while they go about doing things to the company which must be downright illegal. Do they really want foreign crews crewing Qantas planes and working 20 hours straight (which is already happening)? And, if so, why? If I fly a Qantas plane I want to know that it has a Qantas pilot flying it and this is the sort of thing that the workers are trying to protect.

If they succeed in what they are trying to do then Qantas should not be the national carrier and should enjoy no privileges like it does now and be opened up to real competition with all the other airlines.

nulla nulla · 4 November 2011

sptrawler said:
Can someone tell me who is going to champion the cause for the haulpack drivers who are loosing their jobs.
Rio Tinto is buying 150 remote controlled driverless haulpacs, the existing drivers are bread winners, fathers, husbands whose jobs aren't going overseas they are lost for ever.

Maybe Joyce will offer them jobs as pilots?

P.S. Don't forget about the female haulpack drivers. The mining companies have been hiring female haulpack drivers now for several years after they realised the female drivers were more efficient drivers.

dutchie · 4 November 2011

sptrawler said:
Can someone tell me who is going to champion the cause for the haulpack drivers who are loosing their jobs.
Rio Tinto is buying 150 remote controlled driverless haulpacs, the existing drivers are bread winners, fathers, husbands whose jobs aren't going overseas they are lost for ever.

No one. This happens all the time now - its called progress. Machines/technology replace humans in the workforce.

IFocus · 4 November 2011

startrader said:
Yes Boggo,

I'm shocked at how people are cheering on Joyce and the Qantas board while they go about doing things to the company which must be downright illegal. Do they really want foreign crews crewing Qantas planes and working 20 hours straight (which is already happening)? And, if so, why? If I fly a Qantas plane I want to know that it has a Qantas pilot flying it and this is the sort of thing that the workers are trying to protect.

If they succeed in what they are trying to do then Qantas should not be the national carrier and should enjoy no privileges like it does now and be opened up to real competition with all the other airlines.

I wonder if the Joyce supporters / union critics here would be happy if their kids were working 20 hour shifts earning $20K / year is that the future for our own............if that's the case then who are the BB's going to sell their mac-mansions to?

IFocus · 4 November 2011

nulla nulla said:
Maybe Joyce will offer them jobs as pilots?

P.S. Don't forget about the female haulpack drivers. The mining companies have been hiring female haulpack drivers now for several years after they realised the female drivers were more efficient drivers.

The girls tend to not flog the gear so hard like the boys do, boys will be boys, but main reason for hiring the girls in most of the places I worked was to boost morale on site and take some of the agro out of the air.

sptrawler · 4 November 2011

dutchie said:
No one. This happens all the time now - its called progress. Machines/technology replace humans in the workforce.

Yes and I am sure that if they can use remote controlled tucks to move 200tons of ore around and deposit it in pre detirmined locations.
It is only a matter of time before the luggage is moved from the terminal to the plane remotely.

Boggo · 4 November 2011

Interesting day in Canberra today with the Senate inquiry into Qantas.
Most of it is live on ABC24.

Boggo · 4 November 2011

Another engine problem today, seems like this was an oil leak which probably makes a welcome change from the the problems they have been having since they shifted the maintenance on the Roller engines overseas.

This refers to the ongoing issues, not the latest failure...
http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalking/2011/10/17/the-failure-engine-strikes-again-at-qantas/

If you think safety is expensive, try having an accident.

todster · 4 November 2011

sptrawler said:
Can someone tell me who is going to champion the cause for the haulpack drivers who are loosing their jobs.
Rio Tinto is buying 150 remote controlled driverless haulpacs, the existing drivers are bread winners, fathers, husbands whose jobs aren't going overseas they are lost for ever.

I think you will find these are new positions,no redundancies.

McLovin · 4 November 2011

Boggo said:
Another grey area is that of how Asian flight attendants come through Darwin and crew on internal Aust flights down the east coast to Melb etc and then do the reverse the next day.
Similarly there are NZ crews that do the same on QAN aircraft, none of these people have Aust work visas etc.
Shouldn't the immigration dept be all over this practice ?

Asian based crew on Asian labour contracts should not be allowed to crew domestic legs. The same rules that apply around cabotage (ninth freedoms) should apply to foreign crewed flights, IMO. NZ should be the same, although as I understand Jetconnect (the Qantas NZ subsidiary) only operates trans-Tasman routes it doesn't operate domestic services.

sptrawler · 4 November 2011

todster said:
I think you will find these are new positions,no redundancies.

That's good. It is still a shame the position is lost, but thats technology for you.

Whiskers · 4 November 2011

Boggo said:
If you think safety is expensive, try having an accident.

Indeed!

A big problem Qantas has in this process of once being the top of pile in terms of safety, and now trying to compete with cheap Asian airlines and cheaper overseas maintenance, is quality control.

With the increasing rate of incidents, how long is it going to take before a crash sparks criminal and or civil litigation of negligence for loss of life, earnings etc.

It will be a tough case to defend given the current haste, lack of transparency and poor conflict resolution management in getting to a cheaper cost base with obvious higher rates of incidents as a trade off, being acceptable by management.

Apart from public perception of the brand and customer satisfaction, this down hill strategy of acceptance of lower standards will be one hell of an obstacle in legal terms, since the 'norm' and ususl legal requirement is for management to at least maintain safety standards if not improve them.

That will be the acid test of whether Qantas's strategy will be successful.

The old saying, 'you get what you pay for' is certainly relevant here for those insisting that cheaper fares (from lower costs) are the main criteria for them.

Boggo · 4 November 2011

McLovin said:
Asian based crew on Asian labour contracts should not be allowed to crew domestic legs. The same rules that apply around cabotage (ninth freedoms) should apply to foreign crewed flights, IMO. NZ should be the same, although as I understand Jetconnect (the Qantas NZ subsidiary) only operates trans-Tasman routes it doesn't operate domestic services.

Exactly, the problem is that the average travelling public (no disrespect to anyone) are just not aware of what is really going on behind the scenes and the pollies are turning a blind eye.

Imagine the uproar if the WA miners started a fly in/fly out service from Manila or Bangkok instead of Perth !

sptrawler · 4 November 2011

Whiskers said:
Indeed!

A big problem Qantas has in this process of once being the top of pile in terms of safety, and now trying to compete with cheap Asian airlines and cheaper overseas maintenance, is quality control.

With the increasing rate of incidents, how long is it going to take before a crash sparks criminal and or civil litigation of negligence for loss of life, earnings etc.

It will be a tough case to defend given the current haste, lack of transparency and poor conflict resolution management in getting to a cheaper cost base with obvious higher rates of incidents as a trade off, being acceptable by management.

Apart from public perception of the brand and customer satisfaction, this down hill strategy of acceptance of lower standards will be one hell of an obstacle in legal terms, since the 'norm' and ususl legal requirement is for management to at least maintain safety standards if not improve them.

That will be the acid test of whether Qantas's strategy will be successful.

The old saying, 'you get what you pay for' is certainly relevant here for those insisting that cheaper fares (from lower costs) are the main criteria for them.

Qantas has being having maintenance incidents for a few years and that is with the current maintenance workforce.
They seem to be having more problems than the Asian based carriers. This may be due to things out of their control, but it does reflect badly on their maintenance personel and or proceedures.
Which in turn dilutes the arguement that safety standards will drop if the work is carried out overseas.

McLovin · 4 November 2011

Boggo said:
Exactly, the problem is that the average travelling public (no disrespect to anyone) are just not aware of what is really going on behind the scenes and the pollies are turning a blind eye.

Imagine the uproar if the WA miners started a fly in/fly out service from Manila or Bangkok instead of Perth !

Even worse is the song and dance Qantas put on when Singapore Airlines wanted their fifth freedoms to extend to being able to fly LAX-SYD-SIN, saying they couldn't compete against Asian based crews. As it is now, most flights between Oz-Europe on Qantas have Asian or UK based crew on the Asia-Europe leg. The Bangkok based crew are probably the best I have come across on Qantas.

McLovin · 4 November 2011

sptrawler said:
Qantas has being having maintenance incidents for a few years and that is with the current maintenance workforce.

I love the canard often used about maintenance being offshored leading to a reduction in standards. Maintenance is being offshored all around the world, there hasn't been a noticeable increase in incidents from those carriers that have offshored their maintenance. It's just a convenient trick of the unions to play on xenophobia.

QANTAS Grounds all Flights

joea

Julia

In Memoriam

Boggo

sptrawler

startrader

nulla nulla

Positive Expectancy

dutchie

IFocus

You are arguing with a Galah

IFocus

You are arguing with a Galah

sptrawler

Boggo

Boggo

todster

McLovin

sptrawler

Whiskers

It's a small world

Boggo

sptrawler

McLovin

McLovin

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