PTM - Platinum Asset Management
- Thread starter investforwealth
- Start date
Does anyone have a view on PTM.
How do they compare to a Babcock and brown when they first floated???
Is it the same sort of thing.
PTM havent started willing and dealing, or making aquisitions.
Is that there style?
At $5.70? How are we looking?
Where do they get their revenues from?
If the markert goes up how come PTM goes down???
What is the story here?
How do they compare to a Babcock and brown when they first floated???
Is it the same sort of thing.
PTM havent started willing and dealing, or making aquisitions.
Is that there style?
At $5.70? How are we looking?
Where do they get their revenues from?
If the markert goes up how come PTM goes down???
What is the story here?
michael_selway
Coal & Phosphate, thats it!
- Joined
- 20 October 2005
- Posts
- 2,397
- Reactions
- 2
It should be worth about $5.00 currently imo, looking at the EPS and DPS forecasts etc
Earnings and Dividends Forecast (cents per share)
2007 2008 2009 2010
EPS 27.3 34.1 37.5 41.9
DPS 0.0 29.6 32.9 36.7
thx
MS
- Joined
- 31 October 2006
- Posts
- 403
- Reactions
- 0
I'll be polite, but seriously...you obviously know nothing about the company so for your money's sake, I worry, since you're basically gambling.
Platnium is a long/short equity funds manager. They will not acquire any company. I like it at $5.70 but there's better places to put your money in my opinion. They get their revenue from fees charged on funds management. It's been going down because a) there's been a fair few withdrawals from their funds of late b) they aren't in the bull market stocks basically. Good stock to have if the market tanks and we're in a bear market for a while.
- Joined
- 8 September 2007
- Posts
- 376
- Reactions
- 0
Interesting thread guys.......I'm a Platinum holder but I'm hoping the price absolutely tanks as people get emboldened by mining and 'risk' and keep questioning the worth of this firm and its 'value investing' philosophy........to be honest with you, I'm in my 20's and I plan to hold this stock till I die (subject to it keeping its core skillset, brand and method).........they will always make premium returns whatever the market because they don't negotiate on fees.......the fees will always be there because they have the most sustainable and pure funds management philosophy I have seen........but the real reason to hold the thing is growth without capital expenditure......how do you guys think that people without much money at all can start a company and watch it growth 1000's of times its starting size and still retain a majority shareholding....Its true of FLT and of PTM and I sure hope the price tanks so I can load up heavily
Sean K
Moderator
- Joined
- 21 April 2006
- Posts
- 22,017
- Reactions
- 11,000
I have quite a bit in their funds, and as a professional investor I am now wondering what the heck I am doing. Recently got out of the International Fund and have been watching Japan slip sliding away...
I'm staying in the funds for the international exposure, and the contrarian/value investor in me is saying that they'll come good, one day. Maybe..
Attachments
kennas,
I dont understand it.
CBUS superfund are pouring money into PTM. every day they keep buying more.
They have bought from float all the way down.
They have sold a few times for tax losses I suspect, it just makes no sense.
I guess they are a super fund and have endless amounts of money, and long term it will pay off. But for the average investor, you can't keep averaging your price down.
I dont understand it.
CBUS superfund are pouring money into PTM. every day they keep buying more.
They have bought from float all the way down.
They have sold a few times for tax losses I suspect, it just makes no sense.
I guess they are a super fund and have endless amounts of money, and long term it will pay off. But for the average investor, you can't keep averaging your price down.
- Joined
- 8 September 2007
- Posts
- 376
- Reactions
- 0
Kennas, as a professional investor I'm not sure why you want any managed funds but then again if I had too much money to invest, then I probably would take out some index funds........as for Japan, that's still a well performing fund over a few years, but I know its not BHP either....but a low/medium risk reward scenario I would have thought........
As for shares in Platinum the fund manager, I'm getting my wish and have been lightly picking up on way down, like Ken I own some from around $6.....unlike Ken I'm hoping more people keep thinking like Ken and keep selling this puppy...I not trying to average down, I'm just wanting to scoop the honey....Right now is one of the most interesting times in investing.......you really think something is dead sexy but everyone else thinks its a dog.......you actually have to start thinking like its a dog for you to go close to picking bottom.........sentiment and FUM on PTM will not change overnight and I'm hoping its compounded by a major correction to really create the perfect storm...
As for shares in Platinum the fund manager, I'm getting my wish and have been lightly picking up on way down, like Ken I own some from around $6.....unlike Ken I'm hoping more people keep thinking like Ken and keep selling this puppy...I not trying to average down, I'm just wanting to scoop the honey....Right now is one of the most interesting times in investing.......you really think something is dead sexy but everyone else thinks its a dog.......you actually have to start thinking like its a dog for you to go close to picking bottom.........sentiment and FUM on PTM will not change overnight and I'm hoping its compounded by a major correction to really create the perfect storm...
- Joined
- 8 September 2007
- Posts
- 376
- Reactions
- 0
I'll just address you question lamadas, keeping in mind there is no advice giving here, if we were to speculate where bottom may be, I would consider:
a) As a fund manager, its assetless or they are all on two legs....so I would lean to pretty much using P/E ratio to value them relatively
b) When Platinum floated, people were bullish in valuing them as very much 'glass half full'...they listed round $9 and even at $6 represented a P/E 18 which is actually about average for their peers although PTM is far superior.
c)Since the float, everything that can go wrong in just 6 months has gone wrong so people are starting to tip the 'glass half emply' attitude toward their future growth.......cause its all about growth
d)PTM is a new share so there's no establishing price range....this I think leads to more of a free fall and less trust from chartists
e) Sentiment will not change quickly and earnings have declined slightly on forecasts and growth assumptions have been wound back
I think on a perfect storm scenario, the price could hit a P/E of 12ish or $4 but its more likely to bottom around $4.40 maybe.........I'm just working off hunches here, I'm sure some of these chart guys could draw some nice pictures for us......either way I'd buy it for $6 tomorrow if I didn't have any but don't expect it to pay off like a mining stock in doubling every 6 months
a) As a fund manager, its assetless or they are all on two legs....so I would lean to pretty much using P/E ratio to value them relatively
b) When Platinum floated, people were bullish in valuing them as very much 'glass half full'...they listed round $9 and even at $6 represented a P/E 18 which is actually about average for their peers although PTM is far superior.
c)Since the float, everything that can go wrong in just 6 months has gone wrong so people are starting to tip the 'glass half emply' attitude toward their future growth.......cause its all about growth
d)PTM is a new share so there's no establishing price range....this I think leads to more of a free fall and less trust from chartists
e) Sentiment will not change quickly and earnings have declined slightly on forecasts and growth assumptions have been wound back
I think on a perfect storm scenario, the price could hit a P/E of 12ish or $4 but its more likely to bottom around $4.40 maybe.........I'm just working off hunches here, I'm sure some of these chart guys could draw some nice pictures for us......either way I'd buy it for $6 tomorrow if I didn't have any but don't expect it to pay off like a mining stock in doubling every 6 months
michael_selway
Coal & Phosphate, thats it!
- Joined
- 20 October 2005
- Posts
- 2,397
- Reactions
- 2
Hi have you got a charte that goes further back?
Earnings and Dividends Forecast (cents per share)
2007 2008 2009 2010
EPS 27.3 33.3 36.4 40.2
DPS 0.0 28.4 31.2 34.7
thx
MS
Sorry poor chart.
Heres my thinking...
In 5 years time what is the chart going to look like? Similar to your Argo Investments and other LIC, or more choppy like a James Hardie? Is PTM a cyclical stock?
PTM has its on nieche it seems and its a hard stock to predict what is going to drive its share price around.
Thats what I looking at it closely for. DO they have the ability to grow earnings year on year?
Heres my thinking...
In 5 years time what is the chart going to look like? Similar to your Argo Investments and other LIC, or more choppy like a James Hardie? Is PTM a cyclical stock?
PTM has its on nieche it seems and its a hard stock to predict what is going to drive its share price around.
Thats what I looking at it closely for. DO they have the ability to grow earnings year on year?
- Joined
- 8 September 2007
- Posts
- 376
- Reactions
- 0
Ken, what motivated you to buy this little diamond for, especially up round $6 which prices a lot in for a company without hard assets.......By chance, in my view, you've picked an exceptional long termer. Why?
Platinum is not an Lic but in fact the only 'assets' you are buying is the name of the company, its current contracts of its staff, office furniture that may be leased............
Platinum is pretty much just a plain funds manager. Aussies and others give them money and they invest it in companies globally in return for various (high) fees. So what makes them special? They have developed, in my mind, an exceptional and unique investment method. This different method colours the whole culture of the organisation which means that they are distinctive in acquiring staff, training and rewarding.
Unlike the rest of industry bending over backwards for customers, they don't. They don't negotiate on their high fees and they don't advertise as they think the performance of their funds are the only advertisements needed.
As a result, a dramatically high proportion of every fee paid goes to the bottom line. It is hard to see them as anything other than a long term growth story as clearly they inevitably will have more funds under management and thus a rich increasing river of fees derived off a low cost base.
But the beauty is Ken, we get to buy them at a discounted price since their funds under management has actually had a decline for 6 months or so and will continue to decline probably for next 6 months..Why? Well, that's the question......many of their funds are lagging the bull market in recent times cause they just won't take the risks others are and I guess there is the fear that all of a sudden they have lost their midas touch.......while this sells newspapers, do your research and work out if this is true...does all that change in 6 months?
Platinum is not an Lic but in fact the only 'assets' you are buying is the name of the company, its current contracts of its staff, office furniture that may be leased............
Platinum is pretty much just a plain funds manager. Aussies and others give them money and they invest it in companies globally in return for various (high) fees. So what makes them special? They have developed, in my mind, an exceptional and unique investment method. This different method colours the whole culture of the organisation which means that they are distinctive in acquiring staff, training and rewarding.
Unlike the rest of industry bending over backwards for customers, they don't. They don't negotiate on their high fees and they don't advertise as they think the performance of their funds are the only advertisements needed.
As a result, a dramatically high proportion of every fee paid goes to the bottom line. It is hard to see them as anything other than a long term growth story as clearly they inevitably will have more funds under management and thus a rich increasing river of fees derived off a low cost base.
But the beauty is Ken, we get to buy them at a discounted price since their funds under management has actually had a decline for 6 months or so and will continue to decline probably for next 6 months..Why? Well, that's the question......many of their funds are lagging the bull market in recent times cause they just won't take the risks others are and I guess there is the fear that all of a sudden they have lost their midas touch.......while this sells newspapers, do your research and work out if this is true...does all that change in 6 months?
- Joined
- 1 April 2007
- Posts
- 338
- Reactions
- 1
Interesting stock at the moment this one!
I will do some analysis on it in the coming couple weeks and try to value it for myself.
Definately a long-term investment, one Ill be sure to keep my eye on!
I will do some analysis on it in the coming couple weeks and try to value it for myself.
Definately a long-term investment, one Ill be sure to keep my eye on!
I bought into this stock today at $4.97, which is below what the IPO was priced at.
I remember well its debut and the scramble for its stock that almost doubled its price in a few days, must be a few who are sitting on pretty bad losses should they sell, think in time it will recover and be back up towards $10, like many of the financial stocks it has taken a battereing, maybe further to fall but IMO maybe a good time to add to long term portfolios.
In the last 2 weeks ive been buying AFG and MQG, now today PTM, next on the list is a stake in PPT.
Cheers
Pager
I remember well its debut and the scramble for its stock that almost doubled its price in a few days, must be a few who are sitting on pretty bad losses should they sell, think in time it will recover and be back up towards $10, like many of the financial stocks it has taken a battereing, maybe further to fall but IMO maybe a good time to add to long term portfolios.
In the last 2 weeks ive been buying AFG and MQG, now today PTM, next on the list is a stake in PPT.
Cheers
Pager
- Joined
- 8 September 2007
- Posts
- 376
- Reactions
- 0
I picked a few more trinkets up at 4.9 but am hoping for some more serious falls which are entirely possible.......you would have thought all the day traders who got in days after float would be all gone now...but who knows...they all know the price of everything but the value of nothing or however it goes....
