PTM - Platinum Asset Management

[Sean K]

And a contrarian's eyes light up. ?

 

[Sean K]

But, stepping back a bit, it's been pretty average for 5 years.

 

[So_Cynical]

Its been brutal for Platinum, as asset allocators they have collectively done a very average job. they really missed to boat with the switch to ETF's and the super boom, simply put fund mangers are judged by how well the funds do. PTM is crashing and burning, month after month and year after year FUM keeps falling.

I sold out in late 2016 at about 5.70

 

[Sean K]

Its been brutal for Platinum, as asset allocators they have collectively done a very average job. they really missed to boat with the switch to ETF's and the super boom, simply put fund mangers are judged by how well the funds do. PTM is crashing and burning, month after month and year after year FUM keeps falling.

I sold out in late 2016 at about 5.70

I had three of the managed funds back in the naughties. Bailed during the GFC, which in retrospect was a good move even though I lost a bit on paper due to the units been smashed down. Have always considered getting into PTM in the back of my mind but they seem to have really lost the plot. Maybe Kerr isn't running the show anymore?

 

[So_Cynical]

I had three of the managed funds back in the naughties. Bailed during the GFC, which in retrospect was a good move even though I lost a bit on paper due to the units been smashed down. Have always considered getting into PTM in the back of my mind but they seem to have really lost the plot. Maybe Kerr isn't running the show anymore?

Kerr is gone and split with the missus and she sold all her shares just a couple of weeks ago, didn't help the SP.

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

I agree @Sean K and @So_Cynical with all your above comments.

I nearly met Keir once long time ago. He was in 1st and I was in Business on a flight that “broke down” in KL. I tried to get a conversation going as they bussed us to a hotel for an o’nite stay but he had his head in spreadsheets and documents. Worked his butt off all the way to LHR.

I held PTM years ago and might have a look again.

gg

 

[finicky]

Today: Greg Canavan's (Port Phillip) backing it at this price, refers to the big dividend obviously but likes its defensive positioning. Says that according to Oct report they are only 69% invested (adjusting for cash and shorts)
There's a bar graph showing how PTM funds were buffered by this approach during past crashes.
I don't like the China investment but don't know the weight.

Since February 2021, Chinese stocks have cost the portfolio 3.5% in returns. In recent months, we re-entered Alibaba and Tencent at attractive levels, having exited in late 2020 and early 2021 respectively, as they became too popular. Our major Chinese holdings include China Overseas Land & Investment (real estate), Ping An Insurance, Trip.com (travel), Weichai Power (engine maker) and ZTO Express (logistics). These seven companies have an average P/E of 9x.’

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

I'm in a bind as to whether or not to buy PTM atm.

FUM are down, and continuing a downward path, while most of the stock is held by insiders.

The only way I see it improving for PTM is if the cyclical stocks improve AND the growth stocks stand still.

If the growth stocks fall then all stocks will fall imo in this investing climate.

Technically it looks like a dogs dinner, bearish.

The divi is way in the future in these days of plague.

It is a dart pick really. It was a dart pick at $4.50, $4.00, $3.50 and $3.00. It is still a dart pick at $2.70 this evening.

The instos are scarce on the ownership table with the majority as was noted above being insiders.

I'll wait for the fat lady to sing.

gg

 

[finicky]

Month of December continues the downtrend with $168m net outflows.
FUM caught it up somewhat but still down $44m (-0.22%)

 

[Sean K]

Could Judith selling out be the end of the downturn?

 

[Dona Ferentes]

Could Judith selling out be the end of the downturn?

often can be, the weight of uncertainty is removed. ... but still/ now will be valued on FUM and the performance of markets.

 

[dyna]

For the last 3 months of 2021, retail investors withdrew over $ 1 Billion and nearly $1/2 Billion taken out by institutions.
( Not forgetting the biggie, of course. $23 Billion pulled by St Jame's Palace .)

 

[Dona Ferentes]

For the last 3 months of 2021, retail investors withdrew over $ 1 Billion and nearly $1/2 Billion taken out by institutions.
( Not forgetting the biggie, of course. $23 Billion pulled by St Jame's Palace .)

wrong outfit ... that was Magellan

(Alexandra Douglass . ... her time may come ??)

 

[dyna]

Oops!...in the wrong hole, again.

 

[finicky]

Looks like PTM will end January at an all time low monthly close. Slight signs of hope in the weekly chart (not shown) but nothing much yet (price has moved lethargically outside downtrend, a few indecisive candles, momentum flat lining)
I can see no reason for taking a chance on them yet, what with the investing in China tech and real estate stocks. Reading that for me was a turn off worse than the receding funds.

Held

All Data Monthly

 

[qldfrog]

Looks like PTM will end January at an all time low monthly close. Slight signs of hope in the weekly chart (not shown) but nothing much yet (price has moved lethargically outside downtrend, a few indecisive candles, momentum flat lining)
I can see no reason for taking a chance on them yet, what with the investing in China tech and real estate stocks. Reading that for me was a turn off worse than the receding funds.

Held

All Data Monthly
View attachment 136700

I once owned and looking at the long term was a real kick inthe guts as i had a positive bias:
PTM has been appalling looking at the last 10y, even I did better ?
I can not understand how they have managed to stay afloat with these results

 

[Sean K]

Looks like PTM will end January at an all time low monthly close. Slight signs of hope in the weekly chart (not shown) but nothing much yet (price has moved lethargically outside downtrend, a few indecisive candles, momentum flat lining)
I can see no reason for taking a chance on them yet, what with the investing in China tech and real estate stocks. Reading that for me was a turn off worse than the receding funds.

Held

All Data Monthly
View attachment 136700

The switch to ETFs is a major factor in outflows. It's like the switch from VHS to DVD to the Cloud.

 

[finicky]

Platinum funds have outperformed MFG anyway. FUM up $457m, but net outflow of $134m.
Historic share price low of $2.35 recently. The price on the daily chart has either moved just outside the downtrend resistance line or is on the verge - depending on where you choose your line. Momentum has been signalling positive divergence for months. For my purposes it is technically a spec buy (albeit risky) if I were to ignore my negative macro vibe. I guess it will still pay a dividend too, that goes Ex starting March?

Held
Hold

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

Platinum funds have outperformed MFG anyway. FUM up $457m, but net outflow of $134m.
Historic share price low of $2.35 recently. The price on the daily chart has either moved just outside the downtrend resistance line or is on the verge - depending on where you choose your line. Momentum has been signalling positive divergence for months. For my purposes it is technically a spec buy (albeit risky) if I were to ignore my negative macro vibe. I guess it will still pay a dividend too, that goes Ex starting March?

Held
Hold

View attachment 137160

It is always sad to see a once great fund plummet.

I agree with your sentiments entirely @finicky but will await Mr.Markets’ lead.

gg

 

[Sean K]

With a general switch to value from growth in response to interest rate rises, perhaps Platinum will do a bit better. Maybe this change in the market will be the bottom for PTM? Let's look back in 5 years and see.