Property - Ugh!

[Ferret]

Thought I'd share my recent experience with property investment.

I have a place in Sydney that I've owned for 20 years. For the last 10 its been let out while I've worked overseas. It is very exposed to the south and during the heavy rain and gale force winds in June water got in under and through sliding doors and windows and soaked carpets upstairs and down on the southern side.

The agent arranged for a contracter to bring in drying equipment. This cost $2000 and then a week later the second storm came and they were soaked again. This time the carpets had to be replaced.

The tennants were getting very distressed and the agent arranged for a builder to come and inspect the place. The builder said they couldn't be sure of the cause of the leaks but recommended tearing up all the decks, pulling out all the windows and doors and putting it back together for $20,000.

I couldn't believe this and said no. The house has never leaked like this before in the 20 years I've owned it. Many houses in the street had similar leakage, including the neighbours brand new place. I don't think there is anything the builder could do to prevent leakage occuring again if we got such extreme weather and I'm willing to accept that this might occur every 30 years or so and that I'd have to cop the cost of carpet replacement etc.

Now the agent tells me that the tennants want the repair work carried out and can legally force me to have it done! Such are the joys of property investment!

 

[Aedo]

Bugger! We have had virtually non-stop rain in Perth lately and my newly renovated house is now leaking so know your pain.

... The builder said they couldn't be sure of the cause of the leaks but recommended tearing up all the decks, pulling out all the windows and doors and putting it back together for $20,000.

Will the builder then guarantee it won't leak and put that in writing before starting work?

Now the agent tells me that the tennants want the repair work carried out and can legally force me to have it done! Such are the joys of property investment!

If the builder won't guarantee to solve the problem will you then have grounds to refuse?

All the best for a successful resolution!

 

[tech/a]

You've had it for 20 yrs.

Surely you have a maintenance budget factored into your investment plan?
Prices have quadrupled in 20yrs so my heart bleeds that you have to make some input.

Plus if your not positively geared after 20yrs and your tennents havent been paying you atleast $15,000 a year in excess rent return,what are you doing in property.

Your pissed off!---WHY?

 

[caleb2003]

Will insurance not cover it?

You can always get another quote as well.

 

[Aedo]

You've had it for 20 yrs.

Surely you have a maintenance budget factored into your investment plan?
Prices have quadrupled in 20yrs so my heart bleeds that you have to make some input.

Plus if your not positively geared after 20yrs and your tennents havent been paying you atleast $15,000 a year in excess rent return,what are you doing in property.

Your pissed off!---WHY?

Bit harsh don't you think? Most people would be ticked if fronted with a $20k surprise regardless of the current financial position of the property (which wasn't the topic of the discussion!)

 

[nioka]

Alternatives are:

1. Put up the rent.
2. Get rid of the tennants.
3. Sell the property.
4. Get another quote.
5. Tell the tennants they will have to move out while repairs are made.
6. Do the repairs yourself.
7. Stall it off.

 

[Julia]

You've had it for 20 yrs.

Surely you have a maintenance budget factored into your investment plan?
Prices have quadrupled in 20yrs so my heart bleeds that you have to make some input.

Plus if your not positively geared after 20yrs and your tennents havent been paying you atleast $15,000 a year in excess rent return,what are you doing in property.

Your pissed off!---WHY?

Tech, that seems a bit unfair. Unless you know more about Ferret's affairs than is discussed in the post, how do you know he/she hasn't been regularly doing appropriate maintenance?

I think the volume of rain amongst those recent storms were a very unusual event and perhaps the leaking simply couldn't have been foreseen.

Hope your insurance will cover most of it, Ferret. Good luck.

 

[tech/a]

Bit harsh don't you think?

No.

Its a cost of doing business.
What a landlord expects to just make profit?---come on--
Oh and its 100% tax deductable---something you couldnt claim if it was your own home!

FWIW I'm a landlord to quite a few myself.

How was that landlord that left his apartment that he'd rented to the one tennent for 41 yrs,to that tennent upon his death. (in Sydney I believe).

Made her an instant Millionair. How goods that!

 

[AAA]

I once owned a house for about 6 years. During that time it twice had massive leaks whilst it was raining. I could never find where it leaked despite getting into the roof and having the roof hosed from different angles.

During what was probably the wildest storm experienced during the time I owned it (There were a number of trees brought down in the street) not a drop of water got in.

 

[mime]

How long is their lease? I don't think they can force you to repair damage or if they can say you will but delay it untill their lease expires and kick them out. You wont have problems finding a new tenant in current housing conditions.

 

[adobee]

$20k if ridiculous. I am assuming this is a house. If you have had no other leaks then there isnt that much that could have caused it, check the gutters are not blocked thus water coming back in and down the wall if they are claim against the tenant for negligence. Run some silicon around the door frames I expect that the water was blowing back in a combination of the rain and wind . HOW MUCH WATER GOT IN ? Ask the agent for some photos inside and out ?! To have to replace all the carpets this has to be a fair bit ?? If the builder cant see anything staight away I dont expect there are any real big cracks etc in the walls or frames. Investigate the roof mostlikely a cracked tile missing flashing in a gully or moved / missing tile. It is not that hard to work out a water leak.. Post some photos .. (Was the water coming down the walls and in or up ?)

It is expected that you take some steps to rectify the problem ie check the roof and some silicone if you dont after just spending the money on the carpet you are crazy. The carpet will be covered by your insurance unless this too is twenty years old and has been depreciated to zero. The tenants cant force you to do jack. Having siliconed the sides and checked the gutters this is ample and will cover you till next time it rains to see if the problem is fixed..

Do you have landlords and contents insurance ?
Change agents anyone who tells you to spend $20k without getting a second quote is ripping you off.

 

[Ferret]

The builder will give a guarantee for 12 months, but if the June storms are a once in 30 year event, this is not much use.

His quote said he would replace the doors and windows strictly in accordance with the manufacturers recommendations. But I've no reason to think they aren't already properly installed and the builder has no way of knowing until he pulls them out.

I've had another builder look and quote. His thinking is much more along the lines of mine - that the weather was extreme and prolonged heavy rain and gale force winds forced rain that collected on the decks up over the sealing lip betwen the structure and the frames, and maybe through the seals between the sliding door and window panes and their frames. This builder is simply proposing using silicon to improve the seal. I think thats ok and if I have to replace the carpets again after another big storm in 30 years, so be it.

Tech/a,
You've missed the point. I'm not complaining about the need to pay for maintenance on the property. The agent sees that it is properly maintained and up until now I've had no complaints with the expense. I also agree that I am lucky that repairs are tax deductible.

My gripe is that apparently the tennant can go to a tribunal and force me to spend a lot of money on pointless work. This is my first brush with tennant vs landlord rights and I don't like the way the tennant seems to have all the power.

 

[tech/a]

hmm that I did (Miss the point).

Ive had bad tennents a few times.
In both instances Growing Dope in the roof and one bathroom.
In both instances I have arrived with 6 guys and thrown them and their rubbish on the front lawn.
At the same time I have 2 guys move into paint,and rip up carpets.
Anything left on the lawn in 24 hrs I load up and take to the dump.

I guess the dope left in the roof and the bathroom is a strong reason why they dont wish to rock the boat!

They go---perminently.

Ive also had tennents upto 2 mths behind in rent.
We look after our own tennents and as we are not "Faceless" Ive always been paid.Infact one tennent just bought one of our properties when we let them know we were selling!
(I know its hard when your O/S like yourself) Go have a beer with them if you can.A bit of empathy goes a long way.

 

[purple]

Ferret, I too rent out property while working overseas, and the repair bills just keep appearing out of thin air, it's very frustrating for me and i can emphatize with your situation!