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Profiting from randomness: A money management system?

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18 June 2008
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I came across this article which basically refutes the idea that randomness cannot be profited from (as suggested in the well known book "A random walk down wall street").
What I found most interesting about this article is that a money management system can actually provide an edge. I have always been under the impression that no amount of money management can turn the odds in your favor (think roulette and all the suckers who think they can win).
So can MM actually provide an edge? or is the article flawed?

http://www.isigmasystems.com/implications.html

 

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Re: Profiting from randomness - A money management system?

Plenty here profit from randomness. Most falsely attribute this to skill rather than luck. A very small number of posters here skillfully profit from randomness.

And then there's the other issue with these models, which is to assume a normal distribution of returns from a market and no bias, both of which are false assumptions and both of which are exploited by successful traders. (Long tails and the overall upwards bias of equity markets.)
 
Re: Profiting from randomness - A money management system?

1% compound returns upwards is a bigger win than 1% compound return downwards. So upwards bias is built in the model as it is in real equity markets
 
Re: Profiting from randomness - A money management system?

They have constructed a model where the average win (1/100) is bigger than the average loss (1/101) with equal probabibilty. This is assuming that the market will rise over time, which it generally does, but that is why going long is profitable.

For a simple illustration think of the average after 2 days. There are 4 possibilities UU, UD, DU, DD with payoffs of 1.0201, 1, 1 and 0.980296. Obviously if you add those up you get more than 4 and hence the average is over 1. So to profit from randomness is pretty easy in this model, you just buy, hold, sell. It's implications for trading seem limited.

 
Re: Profiting from randomness - A money management system?


Michael.

Do you see both entry and exit as random?
Do you believe placing yourself in a position prior to a forward move is no better than 50/50 proposition (over what term--week,month,year?).
 
Re: Profiting from randomness - A money management system?

In the sort of Random Walk
That could apply to a market ( Not these one step fits all + metronome )

You most likely end UP where you start
and The probability of a step of size s is related to the square root of step s

Seeing both of those statements do not apply to stock markets

It is a useless model

All you are left with is

1) Don't PLAY
or 2) If there is a biased drift ,PLAY but entry does not matter exit does not matter --->Just correct money management makes the difference ( gamblers ruin etc law of small and large numbers

HOWEVER
seeing it is NOT TRUE

Then Entry matters & Exit matters
IE TIMING MATTERS
Because TRENDS MATTER ssshh because they exist

But the Entry that matters is not a matter of how
But more a case of into ( and out of ) WHAT..

motorway
 
Re: Profiting from randomness - A money management system?

Do you see both entry and exit as random?

Do you believe placing yourself in a position prior to a forward move is no better than 50/50 proposition (over what term--week,month,year?).

Really big, deep questions here. Here's the beliefs that I trade:

Charts are random. Traders are not random. Many traders use charts to trade.
 
Re: Profiting from randomness - A money management system?

Really big, deep questions here. Here's the beliefs that I trade:

Charts are random. Traders are not random. Many traders use charts to trade.

You say that charts are random, and that the participants are not. If you believe the participants do not act randomly, how can you believe that the charts - which are graphical representations of the participants' actions - are random? You then suggest that the participants give value to the charts when they use them. I suggest that the charts are always usable, since the price action was never random.
 
Random is a floored concept, I do not believe in it.

This should not be taken as a belief that it is possible to make fully accurate predictions, as rarely do we have all necessary information.

brty
 
Re: Profiting from randomness - A money management system?

Charts are random. Traders are not random. Many traders use charts to trade.

Do you want to clarify this?

- cause I find it contradicts itself.
Charts reflect Trades, so...
non-random trades = non-random charts.

--just not sure what you're getting at.
 
Charts are random. ---Have no reliable reoccurring information for trading


Traders are not random.----Psychology is reoccuring and reliable


Many traders use charts to trade.----Read the psycology not the chart.

My take on Michaels deep and meaningful.
 
Everyone knows that sentiment plays a part in market direction.

Everyone also knows that a coin flip is an independent random even with the outcome unbiased by the previous result.

Therefore trying to use randomness to explain market moves cannot work.
 
Debating whether the markets follow a random walk is an open question, fine. However i am always going to be suspicious about any one telling me you can profit from a random walk. This all sounds a bit like a brownian ratchet, ie a perpetual motion machine gaining postive net kinetic energy from particle brownian motion.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brownian_ratchet
 

It looks more like a loose attempt at a binomial tree step. Regardless of step or GBM/Levy, the model is more practical for pricing than trading pruposes.
 
I'm yet to see proof that entries give you an edge.

With a simple type of trend filter for the market and a simple trailing stop, you'd be suprised at how well random entries on random stocks can work.

I do believe there are people out there who can get an edge with their entry, but the vast majority of people will simply backfit an entry from what they have seen on a chart.
 
Sugar,

Even this bit is totally wrong.....

Everyone also knows that a coin flip is an independent random even with the outcome unbiased by the previous result.

A coin flip is not a random event and is easily proven not to be, yet most people think it is.

brty
 
Might be a bit off topic, but I am definitely interested in learning how a coin flips outcome is dependent on the outcome of the last coin flip outcome. Every little bit of information I have ever collected tells me that coin flips outcomes are independent of each other.
 
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