Priorities

[Happy]

From ABC, September 23, 2006. 11:06am (AEST)
Survey fuels calls for national dental care scheme

The Health Services Union (HSU) is calling on the Federal Government to cover dental care for children and those over 65 under Medicare.
The HSU commissioned a survey of 1,200 Australians and found the majority believe people should be able to claim rebates on dental bills.
Public dental services are run by state governments, but HSU national secretary Craig Thomson says people are waiting up to five years for treatment.
Mr Thomson says five-year waiting lists on the public state-run system are unacceptable and it is time the Commonwealth created a national scheme.
"A lady on the [NSW] central coast told she has to wait over 12 months to get a denture made, which means she can't eat meat, she can't eat hard vegetables, she basically has to go on a puree diet for the next 12 months," he said.
"Now these are shocking examples in a country as rich as Australia.
"The only way to properly have a scheme in place is to extend Medicare so that you can take advantage of the private sector dentists that are out there and make sure that they're being properly utilised in the same way that doctors are under Medicare at the moment," he said.
New South Wales Health Minister John Hatzistergos has backed the call.
"All states and territories asked the Commonwealth to consider Medicare funding of dental care," he said.
"The Commonwealth however has not embraced that at this point in time.
"Indeed the only action that it took was to withdraw $300 million worth of funding from the Commonwealth dental program and use it to subsidise private health insurance."

I shake my head quite often, that Australia tries to feed hungry of the World, is everywhere to help everybody or at least uncle Sam, get new 100,000 + new heads a year to worry about.

And when it comes to internal matters we drive on sub-standard roads, have sub-standard medical care – Patel, we have no effective national subsidised dental care, obesity crisis is yet to get any attention.

Plus many more urgent matters, not to mention public housing or education and maybe higher education.

 

[Sean K]

I think this too some times, but then I realise that if we dished everything out, there would be no motivation for people to look after themselves. Let's not become a total welfare state and make people earn their keep. It's a difficult balance which I think Australian does well for the minute.

 

[Happy]

Maybe we could reduce class numbers, have better mentoring systems in place, teach good life techniques, and assist with choices.

Say for example if we have dental care somewhat subsidised, people would have better motivation to keep ‘natural dentures’ intact.

 

[Smurf1976]

I've long wondered why dental treatment is so expensive in the first place.

I'm not a dentist so I could be completely wrong on this, but I just don't see how it can possibly be so expensive given that teeth are able to be seen and accessed relatively easily.

It's not like a GP who makes a diagnosis without actually being able to look at the virus or whatever is causing the problem. Or for that matter an electronics technician who can see no visual evidence of the cause of the problem and can't even ask the "patient" where it hurts.

Open your mouth and the state of your teeth is able to be checked relatively easily. At least that's what my dentist does. I can't see why this is so expensive compared to everything from general medical diagnosis through to electronics.

Is it simple supply and demand with not enough dentists? Fair enough if that's the case. Or is insurance / lawyers taking most of the money?

 

[Julia]

I've long wondered why dental treatment is so expensive in the first place.

I'm not a dentist so I could be completely wrong on this, but I just don't see how it can possibly be so expensive given that teeth are able to be seen and accessed relatively easily.

It's not like a GP who makes a diagnosis without actually being able to look at the virus or whatever is causing the problem. Or for that matter an electronics technician who can see no visual evidence of the cause of the problem and can't even ask the "patient" where it hurts.

Open your mouth and the state of your teeth is able to be checked relatively easily. At least that's what my dentist does. I can't see why this is so expensive compared to everything from general medical diagnosis through to electronics.

Is it simple supply and demand with not enough dentists? Fair enough if that's the case. Or is insurance / lawyers taking most of the money?

Your suggestion of supply and demand is, I understand, at least a part of the problem. The States (who will say anything to pass the buck on the problem) say the Commonwealth has been training too few dentists. (Here is there not a sense of deja vu regarding doctors??)

I have actually asked the question of my dentist "why are your services so expensive" and the answer was that they need a lot of very expensive equipment and nothing is subsidised by the Federal Govt as it is with medical services via Medicare. So to be fair, if we were to remove the subsidy from our GP's and medical specialists' services, we would find ourselves paying very much more for a visit to the doctor.

So, given that we accept that dentists pay a lot of fees to acquire their training, spend probably even more in setting up their rooms and paying staff (remember, e.g. they carry out and read their own X-Rays whereas medical doctors outsource these and we pay separately for them), I doubt that dental fees are out of proportion or unreasonable.

That's one part of the question.

But as already suggested, it seems anomalous to me that we pour bucketloads of money into other countries (where often it is siphoned off by corruption before reaching the needy) while we cannot look after our own people's teeth.

I do some work with the most disadvantaged sectors of our society, and the one distinguishing feature amongst almost all of them is that they have terrible teeth. That doesn't say much for us as a society.

Julia

 

[Smurf1976]

Your suggestion of supply and demand is, I understand, at least a part of the problem. The States (who will say anything to pass the buck on the problem) say the Commonwealth has been training too few dentists. (Here is there not a sense of deja vu regarding doctors??)

I have actually asked the question of my dentist "why are your services so expensive" and the answer was that they need a lot of very expensive equipment and nothing is subsidised by the Federal Govt as it is with medical services via Medicare. So to be fair, if we were to remove the subsidy from our GP's and medical specialists' services, we would find ourselves paying very much more for a visit to the doctor.

So, given that we accept that dentists pay a lot of fees to acquire their training, spend probably even more in setting up their rooms and paying staff (remember, e.g. they carry out and read their own X-Rays whereas medical doctors outsource these and we pay separately for them), I doubt that dental fees are out of proportion or unreasonable.

Seems like a reasonable explanation. As I said, I'm no expert on dentistry but it does seem expensive compared to other comparable services both medical and non-medical.

Best option is look after your teeth IMO.

 

[Happy]

From ABC, Saturday September 30,
NSW Govt releases dental inquiry response

The New South Wales State Government has released a response to a parliamentary inquiry into the state's dental services.
The issues which have been addressed by the inquiry include waiting times for public dental treatment, the training of dental workers, and fluoride treatment.
Democrats MP Arthur Chesterfield Evans, who instigated the inquiry, is critical of the Government's response in relation to the funding of the public service and specific training.
"I think they've done very little for public dentistry, they've knocked back most of the recommendations of the committee, they're not funding it to any significant degree, [and] they seem to have backed away from their commitment to have an intern system to train specialist dentists," he said.
Mr Chesterfield Evans says the Government is it trying to bury the response to the inquiry by releasing it on the eve of the AFL and NRL grand finals.
"There's no serious commitment to any serious amounts of money to improve public services, so really, it's very much a 'do nothing' report," he said.

Last few words sum it up well

'do nothing' report

Maybe other states can do better

 

[2020hindsight]

Maybe we could reduce class numbers, ....people would have better motivation to keep ‘natural dentures’ intact.

Maybe reduce the working class, and increase the trading class happy?.
and do an education campaign - explain to teenagers that in fifty years time, biting their wife on the ear with false teeth just wont be the same. :bite:

 

[Happy]

From ABC, September 30, 2006
AMA warns against loans for essential medical treatment

The Australian Medical Association (AMA) says people should not be forced to take out a loan in order to receive essential medical treatment.
Financial groups such as Macquarie Bank and GE Money are allowing doctors and dentists to offer patients loans of up to $40,000 to undergo expensive medical procedures.
AMA president Mukesh Haikerwal has warned practitioners not to get greedy.
He says if the health care accessed through the loans is vital, the public system should provide for it.
"This may be the only solution available currently but it should not be," Dr Haikerwal said.
"If there is a need for health care that is important and essential within a community, that's the whole business of the health departments around the country, state and federal, to see about providing those services for citizens of each state."
He says the schemes raise two moral hazards that practitioners must avoid.
"One is the perception that, really, the loan is there so I will recommend something that may not need to be recommended. I don't believe that will be a driver but it's always a perception," he said.
"The second is that if there is any dark influence around the offering of these services from the surgery premises, it needs to be a hands off process."
The New South Wales Government says the offering of loans to patients by doctors and dentists for medical procedures is a conflict of interest.
Health Minister John Hatzistergos says it is a worrying practice.
"Well, I'm very concerned by the claims which are being made that patients are in fact being enticed into lengthy loans by finance companies for procedures that in particular they may not necessarily need," he said.
"This raises serious conflict of interest issues between the health services provider and the patient."

What can be said ?

We as Australia have an obligation under UN treaty to look after refugees, but there seem to be no obligation to look after own citizens.

Could it be taken as hint, that it is not the best idea to apply for citizenship?

After all, refugees have free medical treatment.

 

[Julia]

Last week the Treasurer announced that the surplus was over $1B more than anticipated.

What a wonderful opportunity to pour some funds into water infrastructure (not more dams) but recycling and desalination plants so that people can water their gardens again.

Visitors staying in some of our five star hotels are being asked to share their shower with a bucket so the water can be saved. How impressive is that for our tourist industry?

Julia