It's important to appreciate different investing styles. Not everyone has the time nor motivation to get into stocks when they break out and get out right before they fall. Many prefer to put their money in the market and let it grow. Over a long term, they make good money with minimal effort. It's arguable that traders who ride the cycles make good money but with a lot more effort. Seeing the advantages of both sides is being open minded.
PEN - Peninsula Energy
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It's important to appreciate different investing styles. Not everyone has the time nor motivation to get into stocks when they break out and get out right before they fall. Many prefer to put their money in the market and let it grow. Over a long term, they make good money with minimal effort. It's arguable that traders who ride the cycles make good money but with a lot more effort. Seeing the advantages of both sides is being open minded.
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without them traders would have nobody to sell to when each cycle ends
Without traders, investors would have nobody to buy from when each cycle ends
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yes im sorry .
you guys are obviously correct in your long term view of this poundpup.
where else could i buy a stock at the same price 10 years ago with absolutely zero return if held that long with numerous dilutions to my holdings in that time.
but hey ignore the 10 yr chart if it makes you happier.
cycles on penny dreadfuls rock
you guys are obviously correct in your long term view of this poundpup.
where else could i buy a stock at the same price 10 years ago with absolutely zero return if held that long with numerous dilutions to my holdings in that time.
but hey ignore the 10 yr chart if it makes you happier.
cycles on penny dreadfuls rock
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That's exactly right, the large majority of penny stocks go nowhere (or bankrupt) in the long term. So you either need to be very sure of the people running the company, or you invest with blue chips only.
Investing in PEN for long term makes it very high risk and very high potential return. That's ok, we know the risks now. Hopefully for those holding it will do an FMG.
Investing in PEN for long term makes it very high risk and very high potential return. That's ok, we know the risks now. Hopefully for those holding it will do an FMG.
hangseng
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Without traders, investors would have nobody to buy from when each cycle ends
Stated like a typically uninformed trader with no idea of what the company is, or has been doing.
PEN wasn't PEN 10 years ago.
Do your homework (of which you clearly didn't) and you will see what I am posting about, as has been posted here and elsewhere many times before.
Also all you outstanding traders must clearly pick the top and bottom correctly everytime eh? The comments are smug and trite and IMO based on historical events, not what you actually did. If you did pick every top and bottom everytime you would be outstandingly wealthy, that I doubt very much is the case.
Ignorance abounds the forums with traders espousing daily brilliance leading the herd (more like leading them on as they post to their book).
On the flipside I have done my homework on PEN and the board and management. Never have I felt more comfortable with a "penny stock" that it will prove to be what I have always thought it would be. Fundamentally PEN is doing what they said they would and more.
When Gus returns from the US roadshow in Chicago and NYC I am sure there will be more for us to see than is in the stated mielstones to come. Traders as usual will chase the run and once on board will espouse how wonderful the company is, then once sold state the opposite.
As predictable and transparent as the sun rising and setting each day.
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Just wondering if you are applying the same "investment" ideas now that you were in July 2008.
https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2192&p=315278&viewfull=1#post315278
With a bit of luck GBG should soon be back to the same price that you bought it at back then.
Just wondering if you are applying the same "investment" ideas now that you were in July 2008.
https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2192&p=315278&viewfull=1#post315278
With a bit of luck GBG should soon be back to the same price that you bought it at back then.
C'mon Boggo et al, debate is fine but is this really necessary.
Regardless of what you think of HS and his 'investment ideas', at least give him credit for putting his views out there.
In my view it was the Earthquake and Tsunami that really put a damper on things, sure the SP was due for a correction but a 60% fall! Not likely.
I doubt sentiment will improve dramatically ST or even MT, and I would expect the SP to remain subdued. It seems to have found ST support at 0.89 though.
I'm with Tech/A on this, traders, have moved on and are watching from the sidelines.
Re: The trader vs investor debate, we all need one another eh that's what makes the market after all.
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Just wondering if you are applying the same "investment" ideas now that you were in July 2008.
https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2192&p=315278&viewfull=1#post315278
With a bit of luck GBG should soon be back to the same price that you bought it at back then.
Dear Boggo
Can we have discussion limited to PEN here?
As all financial investment disclaimer says past performance is no indication of repeat performance.
Let us focus on the strengths and weaknesses of PEN as a scrip and the posting than distracting to any other non relevant script.
I urge you please use PM to deal with your personal issues with HS if any and refrain discussing on non PEN related issues. Personally focussing on PEN and contribution from HS - let us keep off any personal bias here. The quality of contribution based on facts and figures from HS have been unmatched quality and outstanding. I urge you please provide same level of quality of information here than just criticsing him for non PEN related issues. It does not help any one and outcome is negative. Thanks for keeping the best flavour of ASF.
thanks
tech/a
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Think there is more written than traded in this thread.
Id be surprised and I'm sure so would others to find how much is actually held by the "long term" holders of PEN.
Well done Boggo seems you have done your research--and they dont like it!
Id be surprised and I'm sure so would others to find how much is actually held by the "long term" holders of PEN.
Well done Boggo seems you have done your research--and they dont like it!
skc
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I am with you here Miner. Hangseng as far as I know is investing his own money - where and how he invest is not really anyone else's concern. So feel free to post bullish/bearish views on the company - but leave someone else's own investment alone.
From what I have seen (based on the broker report earlier) PEN's share price is fairly priced at 9c, was pretty cheap at 6c, and require pretty optimistic views to support 15c. However, as a potential investor (which I am for any stock) I am always happy to hear from those with better knowledge why a certain company should worth more than the current share price.
Think there is more written than traded in this thread.
Id be surprised and I'm sure so would others to find how much is actually held by the "long term" holders of PEN.
Well done Boggo seems you have done your research--and they dont like it!
Yeah, well done Boggo! An astounding bit of research. Do you want me to waste my time trawling through ASF to find one of your posts where you have erred in your prediction or analysis.
The Tsunami was no different to the GFC in terms of its impact on the SP of PEN and you could just have easily been exposed to a significant loss had you been in a short term trade at the time.
As others have already pointed out, unless there is some relevant fundamental or technical comment to make about PEN whether positive or negative, perhaps we should stick to that and not grandstand about how much smarter we think we are than someone-else.
It's rather sad to see you and Tech who generally offer a great deal to this forum stoop to denigrating PEN posters who choose their stock based on fundamental analysis.
tech/a
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On that then would a Findie who follows every announcement with baited breath please explain the following.
The price is currently 8.8c
The last time it was that was back in JANURARY.
These are the ANNOUNCEMENTS from then to now.
PEN Rose vertically before Japan on the back of these announcements.
The market in general has recovered all its losses from the Japan crisis.
Yet PEN has struggled to regain past glory.
Even while the market has forged forward over the last week PEN has fallen from lack of demand. Imagine what will happen when the market falls----
So the market must be completely ignoring these announcements?---NOW!!
After all they are the REAL drivers of this stock---aren't they??? they've driven it before and
They will do it again---wont they?
Or could it be that those who are in the market realize that PRICE IS the real determination of VALUE.
You see its NOT ABOUT PEN
If you've read my posts Ive not knocked the company---but Ive questioned those "investors" and their methods.
To me its about balancing views so that newbies dont fall for that bottomless pit of trading on belief and hope---of falling in love with a stock and being blinded to the real art of this business regardless of investing OR trading.
The simple premise of cutting losses and letting profits run is lost with most on this thread.
I'm sure in the future this thread will be referenced as a trading example---for many years to come.
Its on my watch list!!
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Relax everyone, I simply responded to hangseng's post (below) where he was having a dig at traders.
The reference to GBG was my attempt to display that in general the buy and hold concept is a crock in most cases (look at the TLS "investors as an example) and applying the simple logic that if it not going up it is costing you money regardless of when Gus gets back from America.
I won't even bother expanding the same concept with Storm.
Please understand that I am not attacking hangseng.
I am defending the traders approach from his statement below.
Learn how to manage your money rather than having the likes of Timbercorp or Telstra etc 'managers' looking after it for you or sitting on GBG for nearly three years and still in the red, thats the difference between a trader and an investor.
I cannot grasp the concept that you can sit and watch the value of your portfolio diminish but find it acceptable. On average it will probably cost $20 to sell a stock and save yourself thousands and then for another $20 you can buy it back when it is going up and stands a chance of increasing in value.
A trader is a hands on manager of their money whereas an investor is at the mercy of someone that you know little about except what they tell you.
Back on topic - PEN - chart below.
Below 12c - not interested, above 12.5c - may be worth watching and at or above 14c I would compare it to what else has got my interest on the day.
(click to expand)
The reference to GBG was my attempt to display that in general the buy and hold concept is a crock in most cases (look at the TLS "investors as an example) and applying the simple logic that if it not going up it is costing you money regardless of when Gus gets back from America.
I won't even bother expanding the same concept with Storm.
Please understand that I am not attacking hangseng.
I am defending the traders approach from his statement below.
Learn how to manage your money rather than having the likes of Timbercorp or Telstra etc 'managers' looking after it for you or sitting on GBG for nearly three years and still in the red, thats the difference between a trader and an investor.
I cannot grasp the concept that you can sit and watch the value of your portfolio diminish but find it acceptable. On average it will probably cost $20 to sell a stock and save yourself thousands and then for another $20 you can buy it back when it is going up and stands a chance of increasing in value.
A trader is a hands on manager of their money whereas an investor is at the mercy of someone that you know little about except what they tell you.
Back on topic - PEN - chart below.
Below 12c - not interested, above 12.5c - may be worth watching and at or above 14c I would compare it to what else has got my interest on the day.
(click to expand)
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hangseng
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Just wondering if you are applying the same "investment" ideas now that you were in July 2008.
https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2192&p=315278&viewfull=1#post315278
With a bit of luck GBG should soon be back to the same price that you bought it at back then.
16th-July-2008
Perhaps you tell everyone here how it was your brilliance identified the worst we have seen on the world financial markets for a very long time. Did you see it coming? If you did no doubt you to are now an incredibly wealthy person. I think not.
If you knew what I did back then you wouldn't be so smug.
GBG is and remains a quality stock IMO, PEN will also prove many a person wrong.
For now all I am really interested in is seeing the DFS of PEN and the DWDW permit in place. Two more milestones that will display the quality of the Lance project and management of PEN.
The herd as usual will follow, as sure as night follows day.
hangseng
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"
Boggo your implied view that only traders are "hands on managers of their money" is an ignorant assumption.
I am an investor and very much a "hands on manager of my money". Using methods that are disciplined in approach and a willingness to make decisions as required.
One such example with me in my SMSF was to sell a stock that many brokers espoused high views on. I to still see this company as a great business, however it was mismanaged finacially IMO and now clearly the opinion of lenders. I sold HST when they were paying good dividends and had appreciated in sp value more than I believed they would. I sold due to the seemingly rising debt levels, despite the masssive profitable work in hand they had. This as it turned out was an excellent decision based on fundamentals, nothing more, with the company now in suspension.
I then used those funds to buy more of a stock sub 3.5c posters said was anything from a dog to being the laughing stock of the ASX. PEN has proven to be anything other than that.
Yes it may come of a surprise to you, but (some) investors do and should manage their investments in a disciplined manner. That doesn't mean following the herd, hype and baseless innuendo.
My post to our ignorant fellow poster was the fact he was using irrelevant data of a 10 year chart. PEN became PEN 12/05/2004, pereviously it was the delisted Kanowna lights and nothing to do with PENs operations of 2007 until today. It displayed the erroneous methods employed by some T/A posters.
Also the example you chose to use of GBG you will see my view was well supported by both T/A posters and fundamental views. I thank you for pointing that out. Yes we had it wrong, but with the benefit of hindsight we would all make the right decisions all the time now wouldn't we.
I am far from the perfect investor, if there is such a thing. However I am a manager of my money and have now proven over time that the methods I employ are to the significant benefit of my SMSF. I don't buy and hold blindly as you wrongly assume and imply.
If PEN made a wrong move away from the current successful development path, I would be out quicker than you could respond to this post. The difference with many posters, is I will tell what I did and whay I did it if it ever came to that. At this point I can see no reason to make such a decision, in fact if I was in the position that I could, I would be now preparing to buy a truck load of PEN. Unfortunately I am not.
The innacurate subjective assumptions posters make about investing never ceases to amase me. Like ST traders are the only ones that can make money...yeah right!
"
Boggo your implied view that only traders are "hands on managers of their money" is an ignorant assumption.
I am an investor and very much a "hands on manager of my money". Using methods that are disciplined in approach and a willingness to make decisions as required.
One such example with me in my SMSF was to sell a stock that many brokers espoused high views on. I to still see this company as a great business, however it was mismanaged finacially IMO and now clearly the opinion of lenders. I sold HST when they were paying good dividends and had appreciated in sp value more than I believed they would. I sold due to the seemingly rising debt levels, despite the masssive profitable work in hand they had. This as it turned out was an excellent decision based on fundamentals, nothing more, with the company now in suspension.
I then used those funds to buy more of a stock sub 3.5c posters said was anything from a dog to being the laughing stock of the ASX. PEN has proven to be anything other than that.
Yes it may come of a surprise to you, but (some) investors do and should manage their investments in a disciplined manner. That doesn't mean following the herd, hype and baseless innuendo.
My post to our ignorant fellow poster was the fact he was using irrelevant data of a 10 year chart. PEN became PEN 12/05/2004, pereviously it was the delisted Kanowna lights and nothing to do with PENs operations of 2007 until today. It displayed the erroneous methods employed by some T/A posters.
Also the example you chose to use of GBG you will see my view was well supported by both T/A posters and fundamental views. I thank you for pointing that out. Yes we had it wrong, but with the benefit of hindsight we would all make the right decisions all the time now wouldn't we.
I am far from the perfect investor, if there is such a thing. However I am a manager of my money and have now proven over time that the methods I employ are to the significant benefit of my SMSF. I don't buy and hold blindly as you wrongly assume and imply.
If PEN made a wrong move away from the current successful development path, I would be out quicker than you could respond to this post. The difference with many posters, is I will tell what I did and whay I did it if it ever came to that. At this point I can see no reason to make such a decision, in fact if I was in the position that I could, I would be now preparing to buy a truck load of PEN. Unfortunately I am not.
The innacurate subjective assumptions posters make about investing never ceases to amase me. Like ST traders are the only ones that can make money...yeah right!
Tech, Whilst the general market may have recovered all its losses the uranium sector has not. PEN is not the only uranium stock to remain very much below it's recent highs. See PDN, ERA etc
There is no doubt that sentiment has continued to supress this sector but based on several recent media articles and perhaps a general accceptance that the nuclear industry is not going away any time soon you will see a rebound in the sector.
hangseng
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How refreshing to read the words of logic and reason, After the last few weeks something that seems to have gone out the window en mass.
Hangseng
I for one am sick of reading about 'hangseng' in the PEN forum. You claim to be only interested in PEN discussions yet you seem to spend a lot of time talking about yourself. The implied message is clearly 'I am a successful investor, therefore you should trust my views of PEN more than those who disagree'.
So to my mind that puts 'hangseng' on the table for discussion and it's fair game for us to look critically at the previous judgements and track record of 'hangseng' as long as he/she continues to soapbox about how successful and amazing hangseng is at FA.
The problem with this reasoning is that while you claim to be a fundamental investor, your 'proof' is the short term price. As we know, the price has been above 10 cents before this most recent time and it ended up below 2 cents shortly after, so price is very poor 'proof' indeed.
What you've conveniently smoothed over is that PEN was a gold company that rose above 10 cents for a time (with you spruiking it to high heaven the same way you do now). You had the same irate over-confidence and refusal to listen to other views back then that you do now. You said the MD was a genius, that the company's prospects were infinitely positive, etc, etc. Yet you were wrong. The MD was replaced, the business was all but abandoned to move onto the next hot thing.
You could have and I bet you did argue that price proved you were correct last time, but we can see how spurious that reasoning was because it was not only the TA you got wrong, but also the FA. PEN totally and utterly failed as a Gold company. Everyone makes mistakes, that's fine, but I've never seen you present facts about yourself or PEN in a balanced way. There's always something major that gets left out because it doesn't support the point you're trying to prove. I can't trust the judgement or opinions of someone who consistently fails to present the negatives in the same manner as the positives.
Again, when you stop talking about yourself to buttress your PEN arguments, you'll cease to be an object of scrutiny.
Possibly you don't, but holding and spruiking PEN over the period you have, with it oscillating between 10+ cents and sub 2 cents twice, and completely changing its staff and business.... it sure looks like a 'buy and hold' (no matter what) strategy to me.
The history is there on hotcopper. You held PEN from 10 cents down into the low 5s over a period of months before you finally managed to sell. The GFC didn't happen in a day, it happened over a year at least, yet you didn't manage to perceive it as a problem and you didn't manage to sell until PEN had fallen at least 50%. So you argue that your judgement isn't impaired and that you're cool headed and impartial (so therefore we should listen to you instead of others), yet your track record shows otherwise.
If I was you, I'd take 'Hangseng' off the table and do what you claim to be interested in.... just confine your comments to PEN. Let the facts about PEN speak for themselves, because the facts about Hangseng aren't doing anything for PEN and have no place in the discussion whether you're baited or not.
Grant
I for one am sick of reading about 'hangseng' in the PEN forum. You claim to be only interested in PEN discussions yet you seem to spend a lot of time talking about yourself. The implied message is clearly 'I am a successful investor, therefore you should trust my views of PEN more than those who disagree'.
So to my mind that puts 'hangseng' on the table for discussion and it's fair game for us to look critically at the previous judgements and track record of 'hangseng' as long as he/she continues to soapbox about how successful and amazing hangseng is at FA.
The problem with this reasoning is that while you claim to be a fundamental investor, your 'proof' is the short term price. As we know, the price has been above 10 cents before this most recent time and it ended up below 2 cents shortly after, so price is very poor 'proof' indeed.
What you've conveniently smoothed over is that PEN was a gold company that rose above 10 cents for a time (with you spruiking it to high heaven the same way you do now). You had the same irate over-confidence and refusal to listen to other views back then that you do now. You said the MD was a genius, that the company's prospects were infinitely positive, etc, etc. Yet you were wrong. The MD was replaced, the business was all but abandoned to move onto the next hot thing.
You could have and I bet you did argue that price proved you were correct last time, but we can see how spurious that reasoning was because it was not only the TA you got wrong, but also the FA. PEN totally and utterly failed as a Gold company. Everyone makes mistakes, that's fine, but I've never seen you present facts about yourself or PEN in a balanced way. There's always something major that gets left out because it doesn't support the point you're trying to prove. I can't trust the judgement or opinions of someone who consistently fails to present the negatives in the same manner as the positives.
Again, when you stop talking about yourself to buttress your PEN arguments, you'll cease to be an object of scrutiny.
Possibly you don't, but holding and spruiking PEN over the period you have, with it oscillating between 10+ cents and sub 2 cents twice, and completely changing its staff and business.... it sure looks like a 'buy and hold' (no matter what) strategy to me.
The history is there on hotcopper. You held PEN from 10 cents down into the low 5s over a period of months before you finally managed to sell. The GFC didn't happen in a day, it happened over a year at least, yet you didn't manage to perceive it as a problem and you didn't manage to sell until PEN had fallen at least 50%. So you argue that your judgement isn't impaired and that you're cool headed and impartial (so therefore we should listen to you instead of others), yet your track record shows otherwise.
If I was you, I'd take 'Hangseng' off the table and do what you claim to be interested in.... just confine your comments to PEN. Let the facts about PEN speak for themselves, because the facts about Hangseng aren't doing anything for PEN and have no place in the discussion whether you're baited or not.
Grant
Well written Grant. There is usually one HangSeng in every penny stock thread but I have never seen one as virulent as here in the PEN thread. Half of the last 20 pages is just HS ramping the stock and prattling on about how good of an investor he is.
